main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Jabba the Hutt, the man, the monster, the politician

Discussion in 'Literature' started by ColeFardreamer, Jun 1, 2019.

  1. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    We all know the mighty Hutt as a crimelord, as which he first was presented in ROTJ and even earlier unsee in ANH through Han's pov about him. Even in the Prequels TPM he was portrayed as a crimelord. But TCW elevated him to unseen heigths by making him not only a politician, but the leader of the sovereign territory of Hutt Space and its dependencies. He if the Fact Files map of the Clone Wars is any indication back then, a quarter of the galaxy proper including 90% of the Slice.

    Lets go back a bit, before the Prequels and TCW, the EU expanded him naturally and turned him from a local criminal to one with galaxy wide reach. Only logical given Han feared his wrath and bounty hunters in the movies all over the galaxy. So he is rich and influential even back then. Novels even went as far as turning him into a power player politically as soon as Hutt Space became a thing on the first maps. At first though, he was not the topdog Hutt but part of a Council. As well as only one gear in the machine of Black Sun which was supposed to be even bigger than the Hutt himself as per Shadows of the Empire.

    Naturally TCW elevated him to topdog position and everything ran with it ever since. Now we know he controls galactic scale armies of slaves and weapons as well as military, economical, monetary influence rivaling those of the largest corporations, senators and power players all over the galaxy.


    Here we go: The Heroes of the Alliance decide to abandon their duty to overthrowing the Sith and Empire to save their friend Han (Save what you love, don't fight what you hate.. thx Rose).

    Facing such a big powerplayer and all his forces on their own Mon Mothma was wise not to send reinforcements with them. I bet she rather thought: Damn suicidal lovesick princess... ok, they are out. Lets use Bothans.

    Given how the EU and Prequels elevated every character to topdog levels in their own field... why did nobody even blink when the heroes decided to go suicidal againt not only Jabba but Boba and the top 10 Bounty Hunter cadre around Jabba as well as lots and lots of other forces against them?

    Leia wanted to go no matter what. Chewie too. Luke was overconfident in his Jedi prowess. The droids are the only realists left worrying.

    Luckily their plan(s) worked even when they didn't work. R2 saved the day, Leia could Forcechoke Jabba without knowing she got the power, Luke taught everyone that having the high ground matters is a fairy tale that is not true and Boba shouldn't have drunk as much during his night before with the dancers.


    But, even despite this success of topling the topdog of crime and a crime nation. Afterwards they are back to toppling another government helping the surprised Rebellion they return to. Nobody talks about Leia slaying Jabba (aside those who witnessed it and spread the words amongst the slave communities... so Leia truly finished what her father wanted to start, freeing the slaves down the line by example of breaking the chains and before that using them as a choking hazard!). And still everyone is just like, sure they had a Jedi with them.. no wonder thanking Luke.

    Sure the Empire and Clone Wars had cut back on Hutt domains to its later map size, still it now was headless and in disarray. The Alliance could have gone in to free more slaves and get boosts to their army and navy with Hutts in minority compared to the slave races rooting for the Alliance Heroes. But nope, they went to Endor instead...


    Ok, enough commented retelling of ROTJ (worth a read I hope), but why does media tend to

    a) make every character top of his trade
    b) elevate them to high positions as sign of success or power
    c) retroactively do the above which not always jives with the story

    Was Jabba always such a big power player? Or just a local gangster?

    How do you prefer it? Does Han have to be the BEST Smuggler? Does Fett have to be a Mandalorian or just wearing the armor? Does Vader have to be second to the Emperor or just one enforcer that even Tarkin could control?


    I love that new canon had given way more weigth to the consequences of toppling Jabba. Even if at the expense of the fledging New Republic. What other examples are there of these tropes and how would you handle it?
     
  2. JediFett10

    JediFett10 Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 8, 2008
    Who are the other major “Power Players” you referring to?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  3. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    I think Jabba works best as a "big fish in a small pond," though some EU like TCW has turned him into more of a galactic power (which I think is a huge mistake).
     
    Atollon_Dweller and Chris0013 like this.
  4. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2010
    IIRC the recent Smuggler's Guide says there are five "great" criminal empires in the Galaxy - the Hutt Cartel, the Pyke Syndicate, Black Sun, Crimson Dawn, and another whose name escapes me at the moment.
     
    Atollon_Dweller likes this.
  5. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red 18X Hangman Winner star 7 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    I would prefer it if:

    - Jabba were a local gangster
    - Han is not the best smuggler
    - Boba is a Mandalorian
    - Vader is second to the Emperor, but he respects Tarkin enough to listen to him
     
  6. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    This. Making him some galactic power is the wrong way to go. He should be a crime lord with a certain territory that he runs from Tattooine.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
  7. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Crymorah Syndicate.
     
  8. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Thank you. Where did they first appear?
     
  9. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013

    Depends which kind of power you are looking at. As others mentioned there are criminal powers, syndicates that permeate governments and territories. Then there are political power players like the Empire, allied Regions and the like, but also, and even more influential there are economical and financial power players like the folks from Canto Bight, the Guilds, the Banking Clan, the big megacorporations like Kuat Drive Yards, Sienar Fleet Systems and many others. Droid power players like Industrial Automaton and Cybot Galactica. Even Czerka which has their hands in every pot kinda etc.
     
    Gamiel and JediFett10 like this.
  10. FS26

    FS26 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2018
    The Crymorah Syndicate was first mentioned in Tarkin, and has since been referenced in a few works set during the Empire period, but never more than just a few lines at most.

    I do find the tendency of EU material turning characters from the movies into the best/most important examples of their kind annoying; it's a variant of the this one alien character has this profession, so the entire species does this: Jabba means all Hutts are crime lords, Greedo means Rodians are hunters, Ackbar means Mon Calamari are military leaders and shipwrights, etc.

    As for Jabba himself, I find the story we have of him now actually quite interesting. At first, he is one of several Hutt leaders in the Hutt Council during the Republic era who all seem more or less equally powerful. The Clone Wars give the Hutts more importance on the galactic level, and when Maul's Shadow Collective splinters, it leaves Jabba in a stronger postion as more or less sole leader of the entire Hutt Cartel. Jabba and the Empire seem to work together more or less reliably, especially once the Civil War begins in earnest. Jabba seems to have succeeded in centralizing power so much, that his death results in the Cartel overall loosing a lot of its power in the New Republic era
     
  11. JediFett10

    JediFett10 Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 8, 2008
    Thank you, but are we talking “Legends” or Canon here?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Alpha-Red likes this.
  12. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2010
    One thing I like about the Fantasy Flight RPG is that it gives a lot more depth to alien species that were antagonists in the movies, like the Hutts and the Separatist-aligned species. The sourcebook that adds Hutts as a playable race says that it's not, in fact, true that all Hutts or even most Hutts are crime lords - rather, the most famous and powerful Hutts happen to be crime lords, which reflects poorly on all the millions of Hutts that want to make an honest living and causes no shortage of angst for them.

    This is, incidentally, something that absolutely happens in real life - think about how most people still think "Nazis" when they think "Germany," even though modern Germany is a stable, thriving democracy, arguably more than the modern US is.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
  13. Nom von Anor

    Nom von Anor Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2012
    In Dark Horse's old Jabba the Hutt comics, he was sometimes portrayed as a businessman going out on trips to meet acquaintances and cut deals. It was a delightfully gory and ridiculous series of comics, but I especially enjoyed that aspect of it. He didn't just sit on Tatooine and wait for people to come to him.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
  14. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    I tend to use both where they fit.



    Indeed I like how the majority of Hutts are rather businessmen instead of criminals and only their government is criminal-aligned like some real world governments work closely with the mafia or have mafia sitting in office (hello Italy?).

    Also a lot of the Hutts influence on galactic politics as well as commerce reminds me on the Catholic Churches influence within every country. They have their core territory in Rome but permeate every other country with their network and essential services.

    While the Banking Clan and other guilds provide many services galaxywide, I am sure the Hutts are a rival force that does too. Compare it to the guilds being like US companies facebook, ebay, paypal, apple, etc. that provide international services of communication, payment and else. A rival product of China then would be comparable to the Hutts network.
    Imagine Hutts with their currency and influence providing a payment network independent from the Banking Clan, as well as a rival holonet, communications etc. Hutt owned patents and technologies cement their role in the galactic market (like 5G technology of Huawai from china in our world). Huttese wupiupi bitcoin rivalling the galactic credit. Oh the story potential, its all there.
    And like our world moved production to China to produce cheaper and not care about child labor, etc. the GFFA in canon even does the very same via slavelabor and Czerka even within Republic space as per Master and Apprentice! Even on Coruscant itself.
    Only under the Empire did the Huttese Sphere of Influence shrink drastically when their slavelabor no longer was required due to Imperial Law Enforcement providing their own workcamps and work penances like on Wobani.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
    Hamburger_Time likes this.
  15. DelRiego

    DelRiego Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Ah, good time to remember my headcanon where Rotta takes over and turns Tattooine into a Gulf State, running Jabba's business (mostly) lawfully
     
  16. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    Jabba’s power is mostly economical and his long reach. It’s not as if he can go toe to toe with the republic, CIS or empire in an actual war.

    He may exert a lot of pressure and have a lot of clout that other players can’t ignore, but he isn’t a top player in a military sense by any means.
     
    Gamiel likes this.
  17. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    True he lacks military outside of pulled together slave and paid for armies but he has leverage and blackmail on them all! He can blackmail any government and army into fighting for him. Planet of Twilight knows Hutts love their Darknet and collections of implicating material fake or otherwise.
     
  18. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    Blackmail can only get you so far.

    Jabba's criminal empire(and the intelligence benefits that come with it) mean that he exerts enough pressure on larger governments to prevent them from taking decisive action against him and the Hutts in general.

    Hutt armies while certainly formidable(they smashed Xim the Despot, gave the Vong a good fight, and terrified the republic and GA) can not withstand the full might of the republic or galactic empire.
     
  19. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Shell Hutts can take a punch or two! :p

    But yes the Hutts Vongwar army really showed the diversity and techlevel of their territory.
     
    Nom von Anor likes this.
  20. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    Legends Jabba literally ate one of his enemies. That's real power.

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Ackbar's Fishsticks

    Ackbar's Fishsticks Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2013
    In the movie era, I think they'd flat-out given up on armies - they relied on informal power through politics, business, or crime rather than pure military strength. (I mean, when you're at the point where your most common footsoldiers are Gammorrean mercenaries...)

    However, the Atlas To Warfare suggested that this had changed after the Yuuzhan Vong War, and that the Hutts had begun to rebuild their military power.
     
  22. Cronal

    Cronal Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2009
    I mean with the Essential Guide to Warfare and Lords of Nal Hutta said regarding the Hutt military night. The idea was that originally they were quite war-like until their in-fighting led to the destruction of Varl. Then they switched to the Kajidic system of crime syndicates to channel their energies to criminal and business ventures. And that’s been the system all this time till the Vong war when they realised their tactics can’t work on everyone. So by then they started militarising again. Least in Legends.
     
    Nom von Anor likes this.
  23. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    I imagine by the legacy era the Hutts were looking at a hybrid policy. Yes they wield their massive criminal networks but they maintain military forces and potential if need be.

    It seems wrong headed for the Hutts to be fully militarist or fully in the ways of the kajidic system.

    So if I were the leader of the Hutts or the Hutt clans collectively, I’d try to do both as much as was possible.