Jedi Mind Trick - Do the Sith employ it? For what purposes?

Could Palps could have played less shadow games and politics to become Boss - with just a few overt "wave of the hands"?

Since most would agree Qui-Gon's use of it was a "gray" area in Jedi protocal .... Maul, Dooku, Vader, and Palps should relish such a mind-bending device.

EU boys .... what say you? Any good Sith examples?

 

The only example I can think of is Labyrinth of Evil in which Palpatine mind-tricks Grievous.

 

I'd say the Sith would have definately employed mind tricks. Would have been an easy method to get what they wanted. Maybe Palps even mind-tricked the decoy Queen of Naboo into calling for a vote of no confidence? Maybe he tricked Jar Jar into giving him emergency powers? There are many things he could have done.

Not to mention, it would made things alot easier as far as picking up the ladies went

 

I would think the Sith actively used it often...what is the mind trick about, at its core? Manipulation, getting someone to do what you want them to do. That sounds like something the Sith would definitely use.

I do think that it is a generic Force ability, not really specifically Light or Dark, same as Force Jump, Push, and Pull might be. Any Force user can use them, without being influenced one way or the other.

 

Sith are "trained in the Jedi arts."

Also, Dooku was once a Jedi.

I'd say the chances are pretty good that the Sith used mind tricks, with zero moral consideration.

 

The Sith can use the mind trick, but Palpatine most likely rarely did it while on Coruscant. It doesn't work trying to hide and using the Force to draw attention to one's self. I think that for the most part, Palpatine relied less on the mind trick and more on his silver tongue.

 

That's my thought. Palpatine could have used the Jedi mind trick, but he had no reason to because he was so skilled a manipulator that he had no need to draw upon the Force, he was simply able to talk people into doing what he wanted the traditional way.

 

Hmmm... thoughts I have on this... ok.
First of all, when Ben and Luke used the mind-trick in the OT did Lucas include the "Force-Sound-Effect"? Second, in the PT did Lucas include the effect when Qui-Gon tried the mind-trick on Watto and when he used it on Boss Nas? If not, then I hafta say that it required little-enough of the Force that it wouldn't get noticed by another Force sensitive. Unless they were standing right next to the user. So it might not be that big-a-deal, force-wise.

All that said, I think the Sith preferred to openly dominate their allies. There is no need to manipulate someone when you can just scare them into doing whatever you want. Why bother waving your hand when a sinister-wink or an ominous-scowl can get them to whet their pants?

 

I think that they did use it but did not use it that much. They were Sith Lords. They were powerful enough with Force lightning and choking. Did they really need to trick someone? Besides I think that Palpatine did all of his work as the Republic Chancellor through his orchestrative masterminding.

 

It's just surprising that we don't see one Sith Lord do it in 6 movies.

Two OT oppurtunities that come to mind are:

1) Leia on DS1 - Vader did not know her force sensitivity and could have given the J.M. trick the old college try to reveal the base or other info.

2)Boba Fett on Cloud City - simple wave of the hand by Vader - and Boba would be nodding his head in agreement over Han - instead of the infamous dialougue of Fett giving Vader attitude and lip.


The PT? - it seems harder to come up with obvious J.M. Trick oppurtunities for Sith.

 

The answer is neither Leia or Boba are weak minded.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Sith invented the mind trick. Seems like something they'd use frequently.

 

No way. Why bother when FEAR does all that you want and then some?
And now that I think about it, the Jedi are really shady for using the Force like that.

 

The Sith probably use the mind trick in certain instances, not unlike the Jedi. Indeed, the Sith prefer brute force and intimidation, however, not all instances call for such violent means. Sometimes finesse is necessary.

1. Sidious used the mind trick on GG in LOE. He really had no choice considering that he wouldn't be able to talk GG into doing his bidding considering the situation.

2. I am certain that Dooku probably used it from time to time in his efforts to recruit for the CIS. As charismatic as he may have been, I'm sure someone didn't buy into his BS and he was forced to use a mind trick rather than brute force. Also, he probably used it to shut up the whiny Separatist Council when they got on his nerves. He couldn't very well kill Nute...as much as he may have wanted to.

In the case of the Sith Lords, like the Jedi, skill with the mind-trick was probably practiced and honed. The more powerful the Sith (or Jedi), the stronger the mind-trick. GG was a formidable being, for Sidious to control him so easily implies a great mind-trick ability.

 

Using the mind trick wouldnt draw attention from the general populace, lots and lots of people speak with their hands. So you think a Force Sensitive could sense when another Force Sensitive is using the mind trick ? Luke had no idea what Obi-Wan did to the stormtrooper in the begining of ANH.






Maybe he tricked Jar Jar into giving him emergency powers?

Nah, no mind trick needed there, it would be a waste of energy. Anyone on these boards could trick Jar-Jar.

 

I haven't watched TPM in years - but I thought Watto had some "species specific" natural defense against the J.M. Trick.

Along this species line of thinking (If I'm right) - can it be proven that Hutts have the same natural defense? Or should we believe Jabba when he says he is stronger minded than that servant Luke tricked?


Back to the PT ... I just wish we had seen it employed by Sith - because as it stands now, the J.M. Trick is arguably the shadiest, sneakiest, and most disingenious way Jedi Knights deal with other people.

A Sith example like Maul or Dooku getting real down and dirty with a J.M. Trick (making someone commit murder, sex act, etc.) would put Qui-Gon's, Ben's, and Luke's usage in a much nicer perspective.

 

QFT!!!
I agree. The Jedi Mind trick or JMT for short, is not becoming for a Jedi of any level. Who tricks people anyways, what kind of person does that to another?
IMO: There isn't an ounce of good inside the word, Trick.

There is no spin control for the Jedi-gushers on this one, the J.M.T. = SHAY-DEEE.
WHY?

Because a Jedi is supposed to ONLY use the Force for Knowledge and Defense.
NOT for getting what you want out of someone. Not for manipulating the weak minded.
In fact, Jedi are supposed to be looking out for the slow people of the galaxy.

 

Luke wasn't trained in the Jedi Arts. That's why he didn't sense Obi-wan use the Force and he didn't sense Alderaan's destruction. By ROTJ, he could feel such a disturbence. Yoda, a well trained Jedi Master, would sense someone using the Force especially if Palpatine were to do it while he was nearby. And how could he know how to use the Force, if he wasn't a Jedi. That means he's a Sith.


Now, when a mind trick is done, there is now Force sound effect. Just the wave of the hand. When Obi-wan distracts the Stormtroopers while shutting down the tractor beam, he uses the Force to make a distinct noise. When that happens, you hear that low rumble of the Force being used. You hear it when Vader is choking someone or when levitating an object to their hands.

 

Sometimes the Jedi have to trick people in order to fulfill their mandate of defending peace and justice and following the Will of the Force. It's worth noticing that they rarely use it as well.

 

Also potentially worth noting is that the examples of the Jedi using Mind Trick in the ROTS script were left out of the movie.

 

This doesn't need to be discussed. We see Sidious manipulate ALL forms of life, not just the weak-minded.

"Perhaps and old friend like Master Kenobi."

"That's possible. He just returned from a border dispute on Antion."

If Sidious can manipulate Master Windu, then he pretty much can manipulate whoever he wants.

 

Funny to note that the most highly regarded Jedi by many here, Qui-Gon, was the shadiest Jedi of all then
He tried to use the JMT on Wattoo, then on the Boss Gungan guy, and then he used the force to decide the outcome of the dice. And people wonder why he wasn't on the council

 

True, but he never uses the mind trick to do it. He simply exploits the Jedi and Padme's loyalty to the Republic.

Yeah, I do find that funny. I mean, I've got no problem with what he did, but many of the people who criticize the Jedi also love Qui-Gon.

 

Exactly, they criticize the Jedi for being un-Jedi like and deviating from their code (then they argue that they should deviate from it, but let's not get into that discussion )
If you don't like the Jedi because you think they surrendered their integrity and principles, then you shouldn't like Qui-Gon, because his tactics were way into the grey areas!