Jedi on marriage, sex, and children

It strikes me as odd that Jedi are not allowed to marry and have children. If they could they would increase the number of force-sensitive beings in the galaxy, who could automatically be trained as Jedi from the earliest age possible.

I know that Jedi do not want to have attachments so that they could fulfil their duties to the outmost of their ability. However if their attachments included other Jedi or people living in the temple under the protection of the Jedi order, the risk of anything happening to them would be almost non-existant. I think they could easily make rooms or settlements for people related to Jedi, like the military here and the special treatment their families receive.

Secondly, I read in a book, I think it was Rogue Planet, that one Jedi woman was talking to Mace Windu and told him how she had dozens of kids and that he should give it a try. Now, I don't want to sound like a priest, but if Jedi can't marry, how can they have children? I mean Jedi are supposedly somewhat of a religious figure in the world of Star Wars, and if you're talking about religion, then you could say that most religions oppose premarital sex. So if the Jedi can just go out and "live it up" whenever they want, that just doesn't seem like a good example to set for the general public of the Star Wars universe. I mean if that Jedi female that I mentioned is actually not married and has all those kids, then what she works as a part time Jedi and a part time prostitute?? That doesn't make much sense. Any thoughts?

 

Marriage is not a prerequisite to sex in nature or in sane cultures.

 

Hmph. Sanity has nothing to do with practicing chastity before marriage. It is and should always remain a personal decision.

On the part of the Jedi, I imagine it isn't much different, except they don't have the choice of marriage unless it has cultural or biological priority. Most of these Jedi are "human" with "human" needs, so sexual interaction isn't forbidden. The code merely states that deep attachment is strongly discouraged, marriage being a big no-no because it usually entails a firm romantic connection.

As for the subject of children...well, the within the Republic, parents of Force-sensitives are automatically required to hand their infants over to the Jedi. Given that in 50 million systems, there are only 10,000 Jedi, you can imagine how rare Force talent is at the level Jedi abilities require. Thus I imagine that there are bloodlines the Jedi keep an eye on, if not actively encourage certain families to breed (not to make it sound like livestock or anything). And I highly doubt there haven't been at least a few Jedi in the order who have had children, simply handed them over for them to be raised by the system rather than by themselves.

 

Their system sucks if you ask me. As far as I know Serenity is right. They can have all the sex they want but cannot love. I find it almost insulting that a warrior/priest-ish cast that holds spirituality as the greatest commodity, is so carnal in it's practices. Like they're making fun of what they are.

 

Does this mean Jedi are virgins for their entire lives? Hahaha

 

Their system sucks if you ask me. As far as I know Serenity is right. They can have all the sex they want but cannot love. I find it almost insulting that a warrior/priest-ish cast that holds spirituality as the greatest commodity, is so carnal in it's practices. Like they're making fun of what they are.

Well, considering the system basically collapsed into itself when it's most powerful user turned and destroyed them all (most likely for the very feelings it tried to supress), I think it points to a flaw in the system. Especially since there seems to be a suggestion of corruption amidst them.

I agree with the philosophy, that a Jedi must be balanced and of calm mind to handle the kind of power and responsibility that come with the station. I just don't necessarily agree with how they implemented the system. IMO, while there are certain aspects that all Jedi should share, each user should be trained uniquely to their personalities and needs. Example: I think Anakin Skywalker is somebody who does better with attachments (without the emotional baggage of having them be forbidden or repressed) in his life because he is very much someone who defines his self by the people he is closest to and has experienced them before. While certainly many of the mistakes he made are his own, I do think the Council fumbled the ball a bit trying to handle his case the way they did everyone else. Not going to work when Anakin has a very different background and set of experiencies most other Jedi likely don't have. In fact, I'd wager that you could blame a good portion of Palpatine's ability to manipulate and influence Anakin on Anakin's own lack of inner strength and definition of who he is. Stripped of his old method of internal person through his attachment to others, I imagine he drifted through his teenage years not knowing quite who he was.

 

I agree with what Serenity just said, how each Jedi should be treated individually. I also agree that their system SUCKS! I mean if this had been something that had been in the Jedi order for thousands of years, its no wonder that lots of other Jedi converted to Sith over the millienia.

Adding a bit to Serenity's idea, they should allow marriage but not advise it. For example in human traditions, the default thing is to marry. Like everyone around you is married and your parents are always telling you to get married. In the Jedi order, they can make the default to be single, and even teach them meditations or "force powers" to keep their human desires in check. But the way their system works, forcing parents to just hand over their children, doesn't seem acceptable. A parent's bond with his child should be stronger than his sense of duty to the Jedi order. It's something sacred. If it's abruptly broken like that, it could even lead the parents to the dark side by leaving them bitter feelings for the Jedi, etc.

I like the fact that Luke changed all that in the NJO, so bravo to Luke

 

Since May 2002, I've often heard this debate, and alas its no different then it was years ago.

Drawing on real life concepts with religious orders and restriction on healthy/human/ sexual relations, I think anyone with common sense would agree that if pro-longed for a considerable time any human being (or Alien) would/could possibly make an error in judgement due to these restrictions that go against human drives and instinct.

In the sake of Star Wars, one would hope that the order sees this. Granted I doubt we'd hear stories about Padawan's getting assulted by their masters due to isolation and loniness;

However on the other side of the coin, they really SHOULD promote a method to the general public as to how they deal with isolations of the Jedi order.

*ponders this*

Okay...imagine some repulsolift driver transport, similiar in size to the Jawa transport speeding to the Jedi Temple.

The senate's footed the bill, inside the transport, 'Loveshack' by B-52 is playing.

The transport docks and several 'Friendly to the Republic' Tw'leks come careening out, eager to spend quality time with the Jedi.

Mace;

"They're here."

Yoda;

"The Roherium we muster! Heh! Heh!"

Obi-Wan;

"Anakin, your eight-teen now, what's the problem?"

Anakin;

"Nothing Master...What about the red one, I'll take the red one- Oh, she's got a bad motivator. How about the blue one? Can I call you Padme?"

Mace;

"Dooku and Jocasta seemed to have disappeared."

Yoda;

"Like Yaddle, a blind eye on that, we will turn."

 

No attachments. Therefore, One-Night Stands are OK.

 

Which brings us to the real question, do you think Ben showed his "lightsaber" to Aayla from time to time?

 

No, but I bet Padme saw Anakin's

It seems odd that the Jedi could not marry and have families. In reality, I would think the order would want the powerful Jedi to have lots of children since it would continue the lines.

Especially in the case of Anakin. He was a very powerful Jedi. He should have been encouraged to have children and a wife since he was the Chosen One.

Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, Mace ect... you would think they would have them.

Doesn't mean they would raise them, but yes I think they should have.

Of course, we wouldn't have the OT if the Jedi had been different.

 

I still say they have friends with benefits among their fellow Jedi. Someone they care about as a friend, and respect, but someone they can also be intimate with, and still maintain their sense of duty.

 

Now, I don't want to sound like a priest, but if Jedi can't marry, how can they have children? I mean Jedi are supposedly somewhat of a religious figure in the world of Star Wars, and if you're talking about religion, then you could say that most religions oppose premarital sex. So if the Jedi can just go out and "live it up" whenever they want, that just doesn't seem like a good example to set for the general public of the Star Wars universe.

You're making a logical fallacy in this. Just because certain segments of society in the real world regard premarital sex and children born out of wedlock as bad things, does not mean they are regarded as such in the GFFA.

 

Hi folks, i'm a new member here and thought i'd point out you're all wrong

There is actually a very good reason the Jedi do not have sex, or get married, or have children, and it has to do with Philosophy.

Basically, here we have the age-old question of emotions vs rationality, and the Jedi choose to be rational. Not to say they dont feel, in fact they encourage it, but in this sense it is to trust your instincts. Having said that, by using the force they become somewhat like modern-day monks and do not, nor need to, have sex. This would produce emotional attachements which could prove disasterous.

While many fans take the fall of Anakin as a sign the Jedi were wrong, in fact it is just the opposite. Anakin fell to the dark side precisely because he made emotioal attachements, in this case to Padme, which could be used against him, much like the way Vader used Luke's attachment to Leia to try to turn him to the dark side.

Unfortunately, EU has really, really screwed up the entireissue, and yet has gotten it wrong.

 

Not to say the Jedi deserve what they 'get', and Anakin did do the wrong thing, however I feel the message behind this Chosen One message is the fact the Jedi lost their way.

Sadly, they were completely wiped out instead of being able to be shown a new way of thinking. The Force 'knows' the Sith have to go, but when Anakin is doing so, he takes an unbending order with him.

That is why Luke comes along and re creates the Jedi in a way that the Force approves if that makes sense.

I can't see why any culture would want to forbid their members from being in love and having close, intimate relationships with others. It's a way of life that is doomed to fail, in my opinion.

But this is just one gals thoughts

 

But Anakin loves her,don't he?But Padme...She doesn't love him.Marriage hasn't do child And Episode II is a love story.anakin loves Padme...Padme loves democracy...

 

Where the hell did that come from? First of all, what Anakin and Padmé experienced wasn't love. It was just a crush they shared with each other, which mean it was done mutually. The business you mention about Padmé loving democracy is bull.

 

Oh please, the Anakin-and-Padme-weren't-really-in-love argument again? The notion is completely ridiculous, it undermines the entire meaning of the Star Wars story, and it makes Luke nothing but a sappy fool.

do you think Ben showed his "lightsaber" to Aayla from time to time?

Everyone knows that person that Obi-Wan wanted to show his lightsaber to was Siri.

I agree with Serenity on this. The concept of non-attachment is fundamental in some of the Eastern philosophies the Force was based on. In these philosophies it is extremely difficult to reach "enlightenment" because what's required is to completely go aganist human nature. You have to choose to try. But the ability to reach enlightenment is fully expected of the Jedi, and they go through all kinds of training to learn. But the fact remains that they are forced into being a Jedi, they know nothing else. Anakin was "forced" in a different way, he chose to join Quin-Gon, but did he really have a choice? Perhaps in the same way that Anakin chooses to become Vader.

But another crucial element in Eastern philosophy is the ability to constantly change and adapt, to ebb and flow like water or the wind. The Jedi seem to have forgotten this on a large scale. They feel the changes in the Force in individual moments, but never stop to see that their inflexibility is in part responsible for Anakin's downfall, and the rise of the Sith. Anakin should probably never been a Jedi, because he is defined by his emotions and attachments. He'll never be the "perfect" un-attached Jedi, but he could have been more stable had the Jedi accepted that he was different and treated him according. Their rigidity breaks him.

 

But the whole point here is that Anakin HAD to fall for the Sith to be destroyed.

There was nothing wrong with the Jedi philosophy. As Anakin explains to Padme, Jedi do not have posessions and whatnot so they DO NOT BECOME EMOTIONALLY ATTACHED - this is the main point. A Jedi needs to be calm and clear-minded when making decisions because of the huge power they wield.

In addition, it seems that the only way to destroy the Sith was from the inside, and so Anakin had to fall in order to fulfill the prophecy of the Chosen One - he did indeed bring balance to the force. However, it cannot be forgotten that the whole reason that Anakin fell to the Dark side was because he went AGAINST what the Jedi taught.

He was way older than they would normally start with, and so had an emotional attachement to his mother, which Yoda then explains can lead to the Dark side. Remember, 'fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering'. Because Anakin loved his mother, he was fearful of her well-being. Due to this, he went looking for her and became angry when he saw what had happened, and when she die. His anger then turned into hatred of the Tuskens, then led to their suffering.

THAT is why Jedi cannot love, or get married. Emotional attachement can be used against them, and lead them to the dark side. Remember Obi-Wan in the OT 'bury your feelings deep down Luke. They do you justice, be could be made to serve the Emperor'

 

But it's also Anakin's feelings that help him save Obi-Wan's life and Padme's. But they also hinder him in his fight aganist Dooku, etc. His emotions are responsible for both his greatest victories and his greatest failures. It's completely paradoxical, on purpose.

He turned to the dark side because of his attachments and emotions and he is eventually redeemed because of the exact same thing. So it's really difficult to lay a claim either way. But the Jedi are certainly not without blame in this whole thing. Yoda said it himself that the Jedi were becoming arrogant and complacent. Obviously what they were doing wasn't totally correct, because it destroyed them. If they had followed their own rules then Anakin wouldn't have been trained in the first place, but for some reason he was allowed to be, the Jedi changed their rules and then couldn't follow through. They expected Anakin's path to continue along that of all the other Jedi, which is impossible because he didn't start down the same path. All of the blame can't be laid on Anakin (or Palpy for that matter).

And we'll never know whether Anakin had to turn to topple the Empire. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. The belief that he had to, brings the focus onto predestination instead of choice, and one of the main themes here is the power of choice. I just don't know, but I like that mysterious aspect to it.

 

I don't know, it's hard to say, as RS77 alluded to. I think what one has to keep in mind is who the Jedi are. They probably have the most important job in the galaxy, defending it. They are not normal, everyday beings because of their abilities AND responsiblities. They cannot defer or falter in their decision making, they must ALWAYS remain focused. Being a Jedi is not a job, it's a way of life. And because of that that lifestyle MUST be focused and not derailed in any way. Feeling emotions for another being sometimes cannot be avoided. However, ACTING UPON THEM is something else, even innocently intended. Those emotions can also be used against that Jedi. Once an enemy knows that a Jedi allows him/herself to act on emotions, they can become easy prey, IMO. It's hard for me to say that Jedi shouldn't marry because I'm married myself, but I view Jedi as monks and it seems that commitment can become divided if you are married and part of the Jedi order. Yes, when a person has children he is committed to them as well, but they are part of the family. The Jedi order is completely separate, or at least it should be. When someone is married, I believe, this person must have "the deepest commitment, the most serious mind", I think Yoda says something like that in ESB, referring to being a Jedi. Even if a Jedi isn't married, having relationships can take away from the needed focus of being a Jedi. I think this will ultimately happen to Anakin in ROTS. In fact, it was probably happening between TPM and AOTC because Anakin tells JarJar that "he's thought about her everyday since we met". I just think Jedi have to be focused completely to be able to do their work as best as they can. Any kind of relationship, however small, can distract a Jedi just enough to lose focus and not be able to carry out their duties effectively, or even be killed. It's part of their sacrifice of being Jedi, their commitment to the Jedi order. I don't disagree with their rules, they just aren't consistent with them. I'm sure there was a time when the Jedi order was more important and needed, taken more seriously. I think when everything has been okay for so long "the Sith have been extinct for over a milliniea"-Ki Adi Mundi, it is very possible for the Jedi to start losing focus on their mission in life, their Jedi code, their commitments, etc. They are Jedi, but they are not perfect.

 

Something I've been thinking off is that the law forces any parent, with a force sensitive child, to give that child away and never see it again.
That practice sounds rather repugnant to me, taking children by force from their parents is rather nasty.
Those parents will never see their child again and the child will never see his/her parents again.
True it might not happen all that often but still this makes the PsiCorps in B5 seem rather nice by comparison. With them there was still a choice and you could still see your parents. What is the motivation for such an unpleasant law?

Also what happens to those that fail in the Jedi training? If all force sensitive people are such a danger unsupervised, what do the Jedi to with those that do not pass the tests? Do they kill them or do some kind of force-lobotomy? And what about those that leave the Jedi order, like Dooku?

Regards
Nordom

 

Those who do not pass the tests or are not taken on as padawans by a Knight or Master are often chosen to do other duties within the order. Jocasta Nu was one of those, I believe.

 

Hi Nordom, nice pic
I agree with your point of view about the taking of the Jedi kids away from their parents. It seems cruel, and very un-Jedi-like. That kind of bond is really hard to break, and no matter how long the parent or the child can supress their feelings for each other, they tend to catch up to you eventually. Look at all the TV movies we have floating around about mom's who lose their children or give them up for adoption. It's not normal to not feel anything when it comes to that. And this kind of separation could be looked at as a form of motivation for them to be eventually reunitied. And I don't mean strictly in Anakin's case. I'm sure the day when the Jedi kids are asking "where do babies come from" the next question would be "where are MY mommy an daddy?"

The thing I feel that does make them ignore their feelings of parental bonding is the fact that everyone around them is also in the same boat with them. None of the other Jedi know who their parents are or where they are or what happened to them. They're like orphans in a way, except that they lack one major characteristic that I find rather odd. Most orphans at an orphanage regard the other orphans around them as their "brothers and sisters". Now if attachment is forbidden, how do they go around that one? The Jedi kids share so many things in common that they will see each other as brothers and sisters, and it's beyond a shadow of a doubt that they will form strong emotional bonds with one another.

As for the ones who fail in their training, ur right, we have no idea what happens to them. If the Jedi can forcefully take babies away from their parents, what's stopping them from carrying out gruesome experiments on the Jedi failures?? Hahaha

I don't think Lucas spent nearly as much time as he should have when he created the Jedi. In the OT we didn't see what the Jedi were really like because there were only a couple of them left, but in the PT the Jedi were re-defined and were given a new look, and were made followers of a "Jedi code" which IMO is something Lucas should have spent much more time pondering on than he did, because it seems flawed to me in more ways than one.

Now about what Darth Terros and RS77 are saying. Do we know that it was Anakin's bond with his mother that caused him to turn to the dark side? It was a factor, no doubt, contributing to his fall, but I think it was one of a number of things, primarily his thrist for power. At the beginning of AOTC he's talking about how Obi-Wan was holding him back and how he was ahead of him. So it's obvious he feels that he has power and wants to use it. This feeling is encouraged by Palpatine who's always telling him how he's the best and all that. Now his mother's death contributed to his fall in one major way: it showed him that if he was more powerful he could have saved her. This, I think will be fueled by Palpatine even more in ROTS and will cause his fall to the dark side.
But what I'm trying to say is that, if Shmi didn't die or if something else happened with her it wouldn't have made a difference. I think that other events in his life would have eventually brought out his need for power and would have contributed to his fall as much or as little as his mother's death.

 

"Something I've been thinking off is that the law forces any parent, with a force sensitive child, to give that child away and never see it again."

No it doesnt, the Jedi never just take a child, a parent always has to give the child up freely, and I can imagine a lot of people in the galaxy would consider it an honour to have their child become a Jedi.