PT Jedi Philosophy From The PT Applied In Real Life

So over in this thread http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...complex-character-in-the-saga.50038860/page-5 we began discussing how to not do what Anakin did to himself and I wondered if there was any thread talking about Jedi philosophy from the PT or about applying it in real life. So, here I am making this thread now.

To start off, I have always been enamoured by the Jedi philosophy from the entirety of Star Wars and especially the way it was shown in the PT. I'm not talking about the actual physical manifestation of the Force such as the powers of Push, Pull, Speed, Sense etc. but the more abstract concepts that the Jedi hold dear such as compassion, peace, unconditional love etc.

I have always tried to apply these concepts in my life but have been failing to do so for a long time so I thought it would help me if I wrote down every principle in the context of real life and how it could possibly be applied. Hopefully, you guys will find this useful too.

Preface: I am an atheist, totally non-religious and do not support organised religion of any sort. There are some organisations claiming to be real life 'Jedi Churches and religions' and although I may prescribe to some of their tenets I do not support organising or institutionalising around a philosophy of any kind.

Secondly, I am a firm believer in the power of the scientific method and therefore my views will not pertain to anything even remotely spiritual.

Lastly, I come from a Hindu background so I have naturally been drawn to the concepts used by Lucas in the Jedi philosophy since they are strongly rooted in Eastern philosophy and religion.


Main Body: Now I will jot down the various principles/ideas from Jedi philosophy that I feel can be feasibly applied to real life situations. I will be using quotes from the PT to highlight the specific principle being talked about. Quotes may be taken from sources other than the Jedi, for example from Anakin in TPM.

Let us begin:

1. Acceptance of loss of any kind.

"Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not, miss them do not. Attachment leads to jealousy, the shadow of greed, that is." - Master Yoda

This quote applies not only to loss of a loved one through death but the loss of relationships, friendships, possessions etc. If you have done everything you can (within reason) to prevent the loss of the relationship or possession and still lose it then it is best to accept it and move on.

Things aren't always in our control and knowing when to take action and when to let things happen as they will makes all the difference in the world. Unnecessarily stressing oneself to keep a firm grip on things or people only ends up taking them further away from you, something we see in the PT from Anakin's story.

Keeping ourselves focused on past happiness and trying to keep that from going away only makes us lose the time we do have in the present where we could be creating new happiness with new things or people in life. Change is inevitable and death and loss are a part of that. They are things we must accept as a natural part of life and instead of fighting them, we must go with the flow and move forward to a new future.

"But you can't stop the change, any more than you can stop the suns from setting." - Shmi Skywalker


2. We are the ultimate masters of our minds.

"Always remember, your focus determines your reality." - Master Qui-Gon Jinn

This is something that I have come to understand only recently, yet it is something I have known for 15 years.

It is quite simple really: Peace of mind can be attained only when you actively seek it out and stop focusing on the negative. It is not something that will happen automatically, it is something that must be achieved through consciously focusing on the more positive things in life rather than on the negative.

If you are having a personal issue, focus on your work and give it your best. If you are having a work issue, focus on the things and people in life that make you happy.

If you are having issues with friends, family or relationships understand that there may be many reasons that problem exists, many reasons as to why people are acting a certain way and that you are not the only thing in their lives meaning that your problems with them may not be the sole reason for their specific behaviour towards you.

Nor are they the only thing in your life and focusing on other people and things can help relive your mind of the stress of having to deal with the problem immediately and give you some mental breathing room so that you can think clearly and peacefully at a later point in time.

We create our own happiness, we are the ultimate masters of our minds. Holding onto something someone said or did and over analysing it and overthinking it brings us nothing other than a false reality in our minds which we may feel is true but actually couldn't be farther from the truth.


3. Spread the love.

"Attachment is forbidden. Possession is forbidden. Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, is central to a Jedi's life. So you might say that, we are encouraged to love." - Anakin Skywalker

Unconditional love. The one and only truly universally positive thing.

Be good to those around you. If you see someone in need of help, help them regardless of your notions or prejudices. Keep no prejudices in the first place.

Do things that you would not normally do. Go talk to a homeless person, go help a senior citizen carry their groceries, take part in some activity that makes other people happy. The best kind of happiness is that gained by making others happy.

Love others for who they are, see the good in them. If you can't then do not hate them.

Love all forms of life, from the plants to the animals to the Earth. We are all part of one continuous symbiotic system and only if we love each form of life and give it equal importance can we truly move forward as one. Even if we feel that some life form is 'pathetic' it might be of vital importance to a system which you may depend on without even knowing it.

Everything is connected and so must our unconditional love be universal.


4. Help out your fellow beings and live for those around you.

"Mom, you say the biggest problem in this universe is nobody helps each other." - Anakin Skywalker

There are just two ways of living life. One is for yourself and one is for those around you.

If each of us decided to use our skills, our unique strengths and knowledge to collaborate and contribute to the greater good of the world, society or even just those close to us, we'd be doing a far greater service to our own lives than if we decided to live only to serve our own personal interests.

Competition is what divides us all, makes us fight when we can work together for the greater good of all. All of us are born on this planet and have nowhere else to go nor can we live completely independent of each other.

Following that line of thought the most logical conclusion would be that we dedicate our lives to improving that of others, applying our own creativity to find solutions to problems using the methods of science so that everyone can benefit. If everyone does a bit for the world, everyone profits from the fruits of that labour, however small it may be.

No matter what your skills, be it as an engineer, a scientist, a manager, a writer, a singer, a dancer, an artist. Do what you do for others and not just for yourself and you will leave an impact on the world that will make it a slightly better place.


5. Do not let your emotions control you.

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering." - Master Yoda

Emotions are finally just chemicals in your brain. It's as simple as that. When you can accept that we are just machines which react to the stimuli around us, you will learn to control your emotions instead of letting them control you.

No person or situation is worth losing control over and every feeling should be in moderation be it happiness or sadness, elation or anger, pleasure or pain. Nothing is good in an excess, not even love or happiness.

Always weigh the consequences of letting your emotions take over against what you stand to gain or lose. If your reaction hurts someone else, or even yourself, then it is not worth it.

Ultimately, life is too short to lose precious time on being too emotional or confrontational, time that could be better spent on being at peace.

Logical reasoning is the only way to avoid taking rash action and being prone to outbursts that are only bad for everyone involved. You end up hurting yourself and your relationships more than the problem itself. The next time you feel your emotions are going to take over, take a step back, take some time to calm down and remember that nothing good will ever come from acting on impulse without thinking things through.

Remember, anger, and all negative emotion, is just a result of our inability to see possibilities beyond what our 5 senses tell us are the reasons for our problems.


6. There is a good reason for everything you just need to look for it.

"Our meeting was not a coincidence, nothing happens by accident." - Master Qui-Gon Jinn

No matter the situation, however bad, there's always a silver lining. If you look for it you will find the good in any situation.

The easiest way to do that is to think of any negative experience as a learning experience. Take any mistake you make as something you will never do again or atleast not to the extent you did.

Try to make the best of any situation and if you can't then wait for it to pass and you will look back and laugh at it.

If there is something very negative that has happened in your life try to learn something from it, try to take away something useful from it. If and only if you look for the good in a situation, you will find it.


7. Encourage children to be creative, imaginative and let them explore the world.

"Truly wonderful the mind of a child is." - Master Yoda

Instead of filling the mind of a child with stories about fairies and old men in the sky, direct them towards things that will expand their potential instead of limiting it.

Let them explore the world and ask all types of questions and learn about the world and all good and bad things in it.

Let them go bug hunting, let them look at the stars, let them build things, support them in all endeavors of their interest. They will grow up to become the people that inherit the earth and change it, hopefully for the better.


8. Let go of all your attachments.

"Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose." - Master Yoda

Do not be possessive about or attached to anything material. In the end nothing is truly ours, it is just in our possession for a certain period of time.

Everything is transient and changes hands.

Even when it comes to people, no one can be truly ours. Every relationship is fleeting, all of life is transient. Love comes, love goes. Friendships come, they go too.

Attach yourself to those or that which you love, but not to the extent that you cannot move on from them. Do no let them or those things become a crutch for you so that you fall over without them.


9. Patience.

"Be patient, Anakin." "Patience. Use the Force. Think." - Master Obi-Wan Kenobi

All good things come to those who wait. When you work long and hard on obtaining something, when you do finally earn it, the reward is that much sweeter.

Patience allows us to clear our minds of emotion, irrational thoughts and lets things happen and events run their course. We can then take rational action once things have settled down, which will then be much more effective.

You never know what will happen in the future but it's always better to wait and watch and be fully informed before taking any action. You never know, things might just take care of themselves.


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In the end, to conclude all I have to say is that life is very simple and can be lead in a rewarding manner by following 2 simple tenets:

1. Always do the right thing.

2. Always do something that positively impacts others and brings happiness to others.


May the Force be with you.
Peace out!

 

Tagging peeps:
Cryogenic Tonyg Ezon Pin

 

Fantastic disquisition!

I'm working on a response to this.

I expanded your original set of eight "commandments" by two, and the ninth was, "Be patient", which I see you have now edited in, yourself!

I guess that that shows some convergent thinking.

Ready soon.

 

I'm not religious myself, but I do try to adhere to most of the principles of the Jedi teachings. I prefer to use logic over emotion, for one. I don't let my anger control me, I let my brain do that. I try to be kind, and benevolent to people, but only up until they're not kind and benevolent back. Then the jerkwad in me comes out. I also try to help those who cannot help themselves. As a budding journalist, that is one of the things I'm most interested in doing. Previously, I had thoughts of joining the academy and becoming a police officer, but I never made much headway into that. I don't stand down to bullies, and I will always fight to protect those who would be otherwise helpless against oppression. I also like to encourage people to work to the best of their ability. You don't know your limits until you test them. I like to see people succeed. I'm also a pretty patient person, perhaps too patient sometimes. I prefer to wait and see, to study and access a situation, before I put myself into it. I like to know as much about something as I can, before I start my own venture into it.

 

I'M PSYCHIC CONFIRMED!

Hehe, can't wait to read your response! And I'm glad to know we think so much alike!

Thanks for the response! I'm glad you try to apply these principles in your life. People can be douchebags, true. But even so, I feel it's better to not let their behaviour affect ours or incite negative reactions from us. Of course I'm just speaking in general, I'm sure there are situations one would face where even that is not avoidable, but oh well.

I really like your point about not knowing your limits till you test them. Maybe that is something the Jedi in the PT were afraid of letting Anakin do, which in turn made him feel suppressed.

 

As Cryogenic I too am working on a long response.

As for my preface, since you included yours, I am christian.

However, I'm am very open to seeing different sides of the spectrum of reality and human beings perspectives(humans need to see things of all sides IMO).

Short answer: Yes. All of these should be applied to our daily life not because it can help others grow but also you yourself will grow in the process, if you allow it mentally that is.
It's up to you.

Good post brotha man, be awaiting for a response soon.

 

Hi man, thanks for the response! Can't wait to read your reply.

Sorry if my preface was a bit too frank. Yes, I agree applying these principles to our lives is also to make ourselves better, that is what I meant too.

And yes, I'd love to hear all of your points of view, I agree it is totally imperative to see things from all perspectives to understand any idea or concept fully.

 

Seagoat

Hi mate, sorry for the bother but can you please make a small edit to Point Number 5 : Do not let your emotions control you > End of line number 3 >

Please change "If your reaction hurts someone else then it is not worth it." to "If your reaction hurts someone else or even yourself then it is not worth it."

Also Point Number 8: Let go of all your attachments.

Please change the quote from "You must let go of everything you fear to lose" to "Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose."

Thanks!

 

Great post.

I'll just give my quick and dirty opinion on each of the proposed "commandments". I might write a longer response later.

Preface: I'm an atheist and am currently studying/working in the scientific field.

1. Acceptance of loss of any kind.
Agree and disagree. Death is a natural part of life. However, suggesting to forget about a dead friend/family member and move on is quite harsh and unsympathetic. There's nothing inherently wrong with being sad or happy when reminiscing a lost loved one. Their life should be celebrated not forgotten.

2. We are the ultimate masters of our minds.
Completely agree. You're attitude towards life can and will indefinitely alter your experiences for better or for worse.

3. Spread the love.
Agreed. Although, the Jedi of the prequels did not always follow this principal. They dismissed unconditional love as unnecessary attachment and deemed it distracted. In the quote you used, Anakin has found a loophole in the Jedi philosophy. That doesn't mean others share his point of view.

4. Help out your fellow beings and live for those around you.
I love the quote that you used. Completely agree.

5. Do not let your emotions control you.
This is where I disagree. While you should never allow any extreme emotion to sway you're judgement, unconditionally letting go of you're emotions would eventually lead to sociopathic tendencies. We have emotions for a reason, they should not be ignored. Balance is the key. Master Yoda is being too extreme.

6. There is a good reason for everything you just need to look for it.
Agreed. There is no such thing as luck or coincidence. Everything in life follows a cause and effect relationship.

7. Encourage children to be creative, imaginative and let them explore the world.
This is right on the money. Children are the future. If we suppress their creativity, then we've destined their generation for failure.

8. Let go of all your attachments.
Nope, that's silly. We only have one life and we much cherish everything about it. Not everyone can become a force ghost like Yoda.

9. Patience.
Agree and disagree. Patience is an incredibly valuable attribute, however patience to the point of stagnation or negligence is detrimental. Again, balance.

In conclusion:

• I essentially agree with everything that comes out of Qui-Gons mouth.
• I partly agree with Anakin's ideals/principals (I think killing younglings is where I draw the line, sorry Anakin )
• And while I believe that Yoda is incredibly wise and intelligent, he is an extremist.

Thanks for the write-up. It was a very fun read.

-Darth Plagueis

 

Thanks for the reply. I agree with your points too, but just want to clarify about the first point.

I never meant that you should simply forget about the loved one and move on. I said you must come to terms with the fact that they are gone and accept it since things like death can never be controlled by us and are out of our hands.

 

Ah, I see. I misunderstood then. In that sense, I completely agree. No-one should ever blame the death of a loved one upon themselves.

-Darth Plagueis

 

That's not what the Jedi Code means. What Yoda was telling Anakin is to not focus on the negative aspects with the loss of life. Don't live in fear of losing your loved ones to the point where it becomes a distraction. Don't live in the past. Don't focus on someone, some place or some time that is no longer part of your life. That's what Anakin did. He focused on his fears of being alone to the point that when faced with the reality, he couldn't deal with it. He tried to control people and things and that was wrong. When Shmi died, his actions turned to revenge because he had lost someone that was dear to him. He wasn't really mourning Shmi, he was mourning his childhood and his own insecurities. When Anakin starts obsessing over Padme's death, he wasn't doing it because he was afraid for her. He was doing it because he was afraid for himself. He had come to rely on her too much and was wanting to keep things as they were. So he lets fear into his heart and his growing obsession to hold onto this moment was hurting him.

At some point we've all faced the loss of a loved one and faced a changing of our lives. The wise thing we've all done was learn to deal with it in a way that was healthy and productive. Those who cannot will wind up taking a self destructive path in order to cope. But instead of drugs and alcohol, Anakin instead turned to power. We have to live in the moment and not focus on the negative too much. Balance is required. As Yoda said, it is a life long struggle to not let fear dominate your life and let it become anger.

Uh, no. They encouraged loved, but they did not approve of attachment which is conditional love. Attachment is where one will hold on to those that they care for and put themselves and their own needs, ahead of the needs of others including those that they care for. Anakin put himself ahead of Padme when he pledged himself to the dark side. He didn't listen to her, nor think of what she would want him to do. In the end, when he saves Luke, he has let go of his attachment and acts on unconditional love, which is compassion.

They Jedi weren't being extreme. If you acknowledge your fear and your anger, you can then let go of those emotions by no longer giving into them. No longer letting them control you. That doesn't make you a sociopath. That means that you are a level headed and rational person.

Not really. Letting go means not letting yourself be defined by them. I loved my brother, but I didn't want to hold onto him forever when he was dying. I didn't let my anger and fear get a hold on me. When he died, I mourned and then I moved on. I didn't spend the time before then mourning for him while he was still alive.

That never happened. Patience means knowing what it is time to act and to not rush in foolishly. That's what happened when Luke went to Cloud City. He learned his lesson and waited until he was ready, which we saw on Tatooine.

 

Indeed.

This is an estimable idea for a thread; and even if not wholly original, I think it must certainly be original in the way you've done it.

I'm also enamoured by the Jedi philosophy and try to draw strength and nourishment from it in my own life. Of course, there is a chasm of difference between, in the words of Morpheus from "The Matrix", knowing the path and walking the path.

Nonetheless, I am glad that Star Wars was incepted and eventually took the form it did as the prequel trilogy unfolded. To me, it is George Lucas' great gift to the world, poised, as it is, and we all are, being an ineluctable part of it, on the brink between potential annihilation through fear, greed, and ignorance, and a new paradigm in world-consciousness.

Star Wars, then, is something tremendously timely, offering substantive insights in a colourfully condensed package.

Most of the following is a paraphrase of Christopher Hitchens, but I distrust any alleged belief system that asks one to surrender their mind or pledge fealty to a particular creed.

Religion (as the term is commonly understood) is, I feel, founded on wishful thinking, asks us to believe in a solipsism, wholly misrepresents our place in the cosmos, and is the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression.

Indeed, religion, to me, has too many tell-tale man-made attributes, from its alignment with earthly power and the dynastic principle (what could be more human than setting up bloodlines to rule over a social/political space and conquer chaos and death?), to its reliance on tawdry miracles, its hostility to free enquiry, its encouragement of tribalism and bigotry, and its coerciveness toward children.

To quote Ayaan Hirsi Ali:

"The only position that leaves me with no cognitive dissonance is atheism. It is not a creed. Death is certain, replacing both the siren-song of Paradise and the dread of Hell. Life on this earth, with all its mystery and beauty and pain, is then to be lived far more intensely: we stumble and get up, we are sad, confident, insecure, feel loneliness and joy and love. There is nothing more; but I want nothing more."

As for the power of the scientific method to, in the words of Carl Sagan, "winnow deep substance from deep nonsense", nothing else comes close.

Another salient Sagan quote:

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

Though none of this rules out the existence or the vitality of a "God" being or a transcendent quality to the known/unknown/unknowable universe. I suppose I believe in the Force.

I think it's okay to have an open mind and to have a little fun, given all the gaps in our knowledge. But science calls on us to be reasonable and to not retreat into dogma or superstition. If "the sleep of reason produces monsters", we must strive to be fair-minded and rational, lest the worst side of our natures rise up and hold reason hostage.

To put this more vigorously, I can't think of a single tool or body of knowledge that is better equipped to serve the human race than science and the scientific method; especially given the global challenges we now face. We abandon, misunderstand, and misapply it at our peril.

But as you intimate, our personal backgrounds also predispose us to certain ways of thinking, certain sensibilities, certain tastes and aesthetics. Science is open to all, but subjectivity plays a critical role in art and mythology, and Star Wars seems to have broad appeal to a range of individuals and mindsets.

While I'm British/European, there is, of course, plenty to be found in Star Wars that is both Occidental and Oriental; as well as Meso-American, African, and Aboriginal. It doesn't necessarily draw from all these places and cultures equally, but its themes, imagery, and circumstances are broad enough to echo a psychological discourse that the human race has been having since the dawn of civilization. I'm human, too, in other words.

Speaking of words:

"A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. . . ." Only, it's not that long ago, and it's not especially far away. It's right here, right now. We still contend with the same issues, even if the territory has changed. And here, perhaps, is a way out of the morass: a recursive fantasy epic that offers satirical reflections on the human condition and tentatively offers the seeds for a better world.

Its truths, as that playfully contorted "boilerplate" opening statement suggests, are hiding in plain sight, like so many of the incidents within the films which that statement also encompasses. It's all here, but it may take repeat journeys to see it. The elusive obvious.

Paul McDonald -- author of "The Star Wars Heresies*: Interpreting the Themes, Symbols and Philosophies of Episodes I, II and III" (a brilliant exposition of the themes of the prequels, by the way, segmented into a series of character-focused mini-essays: twenty-seven in all, nine for each episode) -- quotes a famous poem by William Blake called "Eternity" at the close of the following essay on Anakin:

http://www.forcecast.net/story/blog..._Vader_A_Portrait_of_the_Dark_Side_137131.asp

He who binds to himself a joy
Does the winged life destroy;
But he who kisses the joy as it flies
Lives in Eternity’s sunrise.

There's a beautiful but troubling paradox in operation involved in "letting go". We cannot "bind" things to us. In order to live, things must be free. When we tighten our grip -- as Princess Leia warns Governor Tarkin -- the more, tragically, the things we want to keep hold of "will slip through (our) fingers". Yet joys are also very binding and some degree of attachment is inevitable.

In an essay on Anakin in his book called "The Learner", Paul closes with another quotation, this one, from a book called "The Mythic Journey", by Liz Greene and Juliet Sharman-Burke, who were commenting on the tragic story of Orpheus and Eurydice, but which could also apply, as Paul notes, to the storyline of Anakin as it begins to take shape in AOTC. It's a subtle reframing of the Blake poem:

"This myth offers no easy solutions about how to deal with loss; but there are gentle hints that may help us understand the mysterious way in which what we are able to let go of may continue to live, yet what we cling to beyond its appointed time may die within us."

Die within us. Here is a great cautionary note. We ourselves become the greatest victims in refusing to let go, or in struggling to find an equilibrium between clinging to something for "its appointed time" and, as Blake would have it, kissing the joy as it flies. This is the tragedy of living with impermanence.

There is a Japanese lament for this awareness of impermanence; of the wistfulness it can be provoke:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mono_no_aware

None of these steps are easy to master.

That, I think, is the beauty of the term "Jedi Master". It isn't an easy thing to attain peace and wisdom. Life, by its very nature, is an epic struggle.

But that shouldn't deter us from making a firm effort to absorb these principles and have them bear fruit.

We're imperfect. We should just accept that and keep going forward. I will return to this concept briefly at the end.

I'll present one final quote. I am a bit of a diet nerd, and there is a very apt way of looking at how restriction of various kinds, or avoidance of bad, actually leads -- or has the potential to lead -- to greater good. These are the words of Luigi Cornaro:

"He who has a mind to eat a great deal, must eat but little; eating little makes life long, and, living long, he must eat much."

In his tone poem trailer for TPM, Qui-Gon pertinaciously says: "Do what you think you cannot do."

This is echoed in the film with Qui-Gon insisting to his frustrated apprentice: "I shall do what I must, Obi-Wan."

And on Dagobah, Yoda admonishes Luke at several points for his defeatist attitude:

"Always with you it cannot be done."
"Only different in your mind."
"Do or do not, there is no try."
(Luke: "I don't believe it.")
"That is why you fail."

It is important to have conviction, but also, as you suggest, to have the right focus (that Qui-Gon quote is probably my all-time favourite line from Star Wars).

Ralph Waldo Emerson also had a powerful reflection on the power of the mind:

"Every solid in the universe is ready to become fluid on the approach of the mind, and the power to flux it is the measure of the mind. If the wall remain adamant, it accuses the want of thought. To a subtler force, it will stream into new forms, expressive of the character of the mind."

Then there is Bruce Lee's evocative metaphor of the Tao as water, imploring an individual to "be like water" to master a problem:

"Empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. Now, when you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow, or it can crash. Be water, my friend."

It is easy for negative thoughts to consume the mind. Negativity is like a runaway train. While accusative and perhaps not tremendously helpful, Obi-Wan rightly cautions Anakin, after he dwells in gloom that Padme "barely recognized me" (he confides this to Jar Jar but Obi-Wan obviously hears it), "you're focusing on the negative". Even Jar Jar seems to believe, despite Anakin's missteps, that Padme was happier than he'd seen her in a long time. So why so serious?

Then there is an excellent piece of wisdom from Shakespeare (but when isn't there from this guy?). From "Hamlet":

"There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

The one I think is most helpful, however, is probably this rebuke from Yoda to Luke -- probably because, if you say it back to yourself when you're down, it has the capacity to make you laugh:

"Aww! Cannot get your ship out."

I guess 50% of mental life could be boiled down to downed ships and complaining about it.

Funny, though, right?

Yes. Ultimately, Star Wars is a simple message of, "love conquers all".

Indeed, the last lines of the novelization of ROTS -- which is, technically, the last exegetical (approved) word on Star Wars and Lucas' legacy -- is expressed in the following sonnet which rounds out the story:

The dark is generous, and it is patient, and it always wins -- but in the heart of its strength lies weakness: one long candle enough to hold it back
Love is more than a candle.
Love can ignite the stars.

Now, I admit, in terms of reaching out, I don't do enough on this front. Not nearly enough.

But I recognize the deficit.

On some level, I guess this could be expressed as "smile -- and the whole world smiles back". Or something like that.

I feel, to answer this one in a more basic way, the solution, or the expedient thing, is to live practically, extending aid to others, and expanding our circle of empathy, when we can.

And also, to quote my brother quoting Larry Page, the founder of Google, think about your effect on the word. Do good and avoid harm.

Again, however, we are imperfect, and might not always know what the right course of action is, or always know what the longer-term effect of an action, or inaction, might be. But we probably do have some good intuition on the topic more often than not.

There are some classic sayings on this matter. For instance:

"God helps those who help themselves."
"Trust in Allah -- but tie up your camel."

In the Jewish tradition, these are some classic sayings by Rabbi Hillel:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Quote/hillel.html

I think I especially like the last one. There is never a "right" or ideal time to start something.

I often need to remind myself of that. I'm terrible at putting off everything.

Anyway, as I said at the outset, I'm not religious in any conventional sense, and am rather opposed to the whole enterprise of religion. Nevertheless, those are good quotes, I think.

However, I feel I should probably end with a secular quotation, and I will once again call upon the beautiful mind of Carl Sagan:

"I think we make our lives meaningful by the courage of our questions, by the depth of our answers, by how widespread our understanding is of the essential tools for managing our future, for how skeptical we are of those in authority and of our obligation to care for one another."

What you're advocating for is what the Stoics of Ancient Greece once did:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism

The Stoic philosophy as taken from the immediately preceding link:

"The Stoics taught that destructive emotions resulted from errors in judgment, and the active relationship between cosmic determinism and human freedom, and the belief that it is virtuous to maintain a will (called prohairesis) that is in accord with nature. Because of this, the Stoics presented their philosophy as a way of life, and they thought that the best indication of an individual's philosophy was not what a person said but how that person behaved. To live a good life, one had to understand the rules of the natural order since they taught that everything was rooted in nature."

Seneca and Epictetus were famous Stoics whom I am quite sure you would find extremely uplifting!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_the_Younger
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epictetus

From the just preceding link:

"Epictetus taught that philosophy is a way of life and not just a theoretical discipline. To Epictetus, all external events are determined by fate, and are thus beyond our control; we should accept whatever happens calmly and dispassionately. However, individuals are responsible for their own actions, which they can examine and control through rigorous self-discipline."

I will use some of their quotes going forward.

We also have the rather vivid allegory of the chariot race from Plato:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chariot_Allegory

From the Wiki link:

Plato paints the picture of a Charioteer (Greek: ἡνίοχος) driving a chariot pulled by two winged horses:

"First the charioteer of the human soul drives a pair, and secondly one of the horses is noble and of noble breed, but the other quite the opposite in breed and character. Therefore in our case the driving is necessarily difficult and troublesome."

The Charioteer represents intellect, reason, or the part of the soul that must guide the soul to truth; one horse represents rational or moral impulse or the positive part of passionate nature (e.g., righteous indignation); while the other represents the soul's irrational passions, appetites, or concupiscent nature. The Charioteer directs the entire chariot/soul, trying to stop the horses from going different ways, and to proceed towards enlightenment."

Of course, Episode I features its own take on chariot racing with a podrace: "winged" horses in the form of jet engines and anti-gravity pods! And this sequence, too, is constructed like an allegory for Anakin's life: for the journey of all human souls.

Again, from the Wiki link:

Plato describes a "great circuit" which souls make as they follow the gods in the path of enlightenment. Those few souls which are fully enlightened are able to see the world of the forms in all its glory. Some souls have difficulty controlling the black horse, even with the help of the white horse. They may bob up into the world of the forms, but at other times enlightenment is hidden from them. If overcome by the black horse or forgetfulness, the soul loses its wings and is pulled down to earth.


Beyond invoking ancient philosophy and literature, this I must just comment on:

"Remember, anger, and all negative emotion, is just a result of our inability to see possibilities beyond what our 5 senses tell us are the reasons for our problems."

That is an IMMENSELY powerful way of expressing it!!!!

I was reminded of a remark by John Muir:

"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the universe."

We are constrained in our thinking by the limitations in our understanding and the "equipment" we have for making sense of the universe.

But, of course, it is always possible to refine our thinking: through science and even simple cod-philosophy reminders in our favourite movies!

One of my favourites as a child was "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles", and there is a scene in that where Splinter (obviously that movie's analog to Yoda) enjoins the following:

"Possess the right thinking. Only then can one receive the gifts of strength, knowledge, and peace."

Yes.

We are all "padawan learners" awkwardly making our way through the vicissitudes of life. This is something I love about the plotting and imagery of the prequel trilogy. That whole metaphor.

One of Joseph Campbell's most famous formulations was the following: "It is by going down into the abyss that we recover the treasures of life. Where you stumble, there lies your treasure."

And another of his which I think offers a pleasing power here: "The best advice is to take it all as if it had been of your intention -- with that, you evoke the participation of your will."

Play and exploration are essential (versus strict adherence to the rules and expectations of family, friends, tribe, tradition, and religion).

As Socrates is reputed to have said: "The unexamined life is not worth living."

I think Stanley Kubrick also got how stultifying so many of our dogmas and institutions really are with the following quote, which ends on a great analogy:

"I think the big mistake in schools is trying to teach children anything, and by using fear as the basic motivation. Fear of getting failing grades, fear of not staying with your class, etc. Interest can produce learning on a scale compared to fear as a nuclear explosion to a firecracker."

Yes. The demon of attachment, again.

A wise friend of mine not so long ago said to me: "There is no prestige in the accumulation of anything."

That quote has really stuck with me. In the end, what are we doing, what are we really up to?

Epictetus also said: "Wealth consists not in having great possessions, but in having few wants."

Similarly, G.K. Chesterton once wrote: "There are two ways to get enough: One is to continue to accumulate more and more. The other is to desire less and less."

Life is change, life is flow. Cleave to less and enjoy more.

Moreover -- this also applies to teachers, models, systems, beliefs, habits, and ways of thinking about ourselves that we hold dear.

It is perhaps conveyed best in an utterance of a Chinese Zen Master named Lin Chi: "If you find the Buddha by the side of the road, kill him."

More here: http://www.elephantjournal.com/2013/09/dont-forget-to-kill-the-buddha/

This is hard. Really hard. But we have to be prepared to "kill" -- let go -- of even the most cherished of our ideas in the longer term.

Attachments are a means of how we navigate the world, but symbiosis is soon lost and toxic effects take over, if we can't learn to manage and move past them.

Beautifully said (as you have done so throughout).

Of course, Yoda counsels calm to Luke, but my favourite line on the matter of patience, or trusting in the universe, has to be Qui-Gon's: "I'm sure another solution will present itself."

And I thank you, in the course of tagging me and compelling me to issue this response, for reminding me of it. If there be any joy in life, it is surely the journey, the process, and in the joy of communication, as we are experiencing right now.

Unless, of course, we're just shouting at each other.


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


Nearly finished, but gotta add a final one, to bring us up to ten. And then some final thoughts.


10) Listen and be mindful.

To others and to your own conscience.

The latter one might call "The Force of Others" (per Lucas' earlier drafts).

"This war represents a failure to listen."
"He never listens, he doesn't understand."
"When you quiet your mind, you'll hear them speaking to you."
"You must do what you feel is right, of course."

As Epictetus wittily put it: "Nature gave us one tongue and two ears so we could hear twice as much as we speak."

Which, of course, agrees well with Qui-Gon's sharp putdown to Jar Jar: "The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."

Epictetus again counselled: "First learn the meaning of what you say, and then speak."

That is something I should work on a bit!!!

Along with this, one needs to be careful of the company they keep, and nurture their own conscience correctly.

Consider Anakin's uncriticial regard for Palpatine. In the words of Christopher Hitchens: "Those who offer false consolation are false friends."

I hope Star Wars will have proven to the world to have been a "good friend" as we muddle through this technological adolescence.

Lastly, being mindful:

Okay, so I cheated. This was originally just "Listen". But since I didn't want to go past ten commandments/directives, I felt I should sneak this last piece of crucial life philosophy into the set.

"Be mindful of the Living Force, my young padawan."

I've touched on this already, but do not be shackled to any particular ideology, system, code, or way. Have a basic set of principles or beliefs, sure, but be prepared to revise them as experience molds you and new data comes in.

Analogically speaking, do not hang around the Jedi Temple too long; or in the words of a wizened Indiana Jones, get out of the library. Crest into moments, live more forcefully in the present, don't centre on your anxieties, and just LIVE! This is possibly the hardest one, I feel, to put into practice (what does it even mean?), but also the most important (we must discover its meaning as we go).

To limn this commandment another way: Be prepared to encounter your Jar Jar in the verdant forest of life, watch out for machines of death, keep an open heart, and seek to avoid becoming just another cog "in a greed-controlled power structure" (as TFN member StampidHD280pro once said: http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...in-the-prequels.31718658/page-3#post-31732144 ). Allow life to keep teaching you and disclosing its radiant mysteries.

And do not gaze out at the horizon too long or "look back" too much, either. Revel in the present and learn to both accept and enjoy the indomitable scope and power of change. Change cannot be fought, it can only be adapted to.

As Paul McDonald puts it in his book: "The Force is a thoroughly interactive phenomenon. To relax in its buoyant embrace is to float; to struggle against its flow is unfortunately to drown."

Einstein closes us out with a similar metaphor, as taken from a letter to one of his sons: "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving."

Inspiring close.

I'm just going to ramble a bit longer...

Between us, we seem to have crafted a fresh set of "Ten Commandments".

Of course, there are any number of "Ten Commandments" in addition to the famous set found in The Bible.

I'll end with a good set from antiquity exposited by Richard Carrier. My intent here is not to cause a commotion, but Carrier is extremely critical of the Mosaic Commandments, and eruditely argues -- in my eyes -- why the Ten Commandments of Solon are superior. Fun to see how much overlap there is, or might be, between these "Star Wars"-inspired ones and Solon's from two-and-a-half thousand years ago:

http://infidels.org/kiosk/article/the-real-ten-commandments-2.html

Here are some very important words of Lucas' which round things out, and, I think, give you a clear sense of where he was going with Star Wars and every project he has ever embarked on:

"I would like to see our society mature, and become more rational and more knowledge-based, less emotion-based. I'd like to see education play a larger role in our daily lives, have people come to a larger understanding -- a "bigger picture" understanding -- of how we fit into the world, and how we fit into the universe. Not necessarily thinking of ourselves, but thinking of others."

http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/luc0int-7

He elaborated on some of that in a video clip posted last year:

"I think it's very important not to do what your peers think you should do, not do what your parents think you should do, or your teachers -- or even your culture thinks -- but do what's inside you."

"Pleasure is purely self-centered. It's all about your pleasure, it's about you. It's a selfish, self-centered emotion, that's created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else or something else. And it's a kind of thing that is in its subtlety and lowness much more powerful than pleasure. If you get hung up on pleasure, you're doomed. If you pursue joy, you will find everlasting happiness."






BONUS TIP:

Keep a pointless "Philosophy" quote file!

I didn't draw many of my quotations directly from there, but I do, indeed, maintain such a thing, and a few more are probably in there, somewhere.

Any time I read something that strikes me as particularly good or interesting, or even if someone tells me something that sounds valuable, poetic, or has a certain "pique" to it, I bung it in my file.

In that regard, it is probably misnamed. It is more a stack of useful (useless) quotes and extracts, jokes, quips, and the like; though I like to think the bulk of it has a philosophical bent.

It's very therapeutic to keep adding to and sometimes opening up and scanning back over.

We seem to need a lot of therapy!

But Star Wars, I think, is a patient animal.



APPDENIX I:

Just wanted to add a few extra bundles of quotes I was unable to squeeze into the response (or it would have run the risk of going on forever):

There is only one way to happiness and that is to cease worrying about things which are beyond the power of our will.
First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do.
Only the educated are free.
It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters.
Wealth consists not in having great possessions, but in having few wants.
If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid.
The key is to keep company only with people who uplift you, whose presence calls forth your best.
Men are disturbed not by things, but by the view which they take of them.
First learn the meaning of what you say, and then speak.
Nature gave us one tongue and two ears so we could hear twice as much as we speak.


Source: https://www.google.co.uk/#q=epictetus quotes


Sometimes even to live is an act of courage.
It is a rough road that leads to the heights of greatness.
All cruelty springs from weakness.
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.
The bravest sight in the world is to see a great man struggling against adversity.
It is quality rather than quantity that matters.
Difficulties strengthen the mind, as labor does the body.
I shall never be ashamed of citing a bad author if the line is good.

Source: https://www.google.co.uk/#q=seneca quotes


We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us.
The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are.
The goal of life is to make your heartbeat match the beat of the universe, to match your nature with Nature.
Follow your bliss and the universe will open doors for you where there were only walls.
Find a place inside where there's joy, and the joy will burn out the pain.
Your sacred space is where you can find yourself again and again.
Opportunities to find deeper powers within ourselves come when life seems most challenging.
It is by going down into the abyss that we recover the treasures of life. Where you stumble, there lies your treasure.
Myths are public dreams, dreams are private myths.
A hero is someone who has given his or her life to something bigger than oneself.

Source: https://www.google.co.uk/#q=campbell quotes



APPENDIX II:

Please think of buying Paul McDonald's book.

I'm not his agent or anything, but it's a wonderful meditation on the prequel trilogy, chock full of cogent citations from myth and literature, and written in a wonderfully conversational style.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Star-Wars-Heresies-Interpreting/dp/0786471816




P.S.

Thanks for allowing me to do this. I seem to be getting tagged a fair bit of late, and I must admit, I sometimes cringe a little, because then I feel obligated to say something, but this has been fun. More than fun. In the words of Vinnie Jones:

It's been emotional.

 

Cryogenic

Haha, amazing response as always man! I'm already having braingasms as I begin to read it but I think I can respond only tomorrow since this is going to take a while for me to read completely and it's late and I'm going to sleep now. Peace out!

EDIT: And thanks for all the likes, haha!

 

I... kinda... went... a bit, ah... crazy.

Sure.

Maybe, if I keep liking your posts up to the year 2050, you'll forgive me for that tornado of text.

Good thread, however. Happy to contribute.

 

Taken care of

You're not a bother. It's what I'm here for

 

I dare to disagree with point 1. Yoda gives a counsel to Anakin about those who are gone: Mourn them, do not. Miss them, do not.
Well that is impossible. If someone ever felt any kind of love to somebody will miss him/her because the person is not there anymore. So this is not a resolution. Yes, people cannot stop the change, the loss and the death and if Yoda said that it would be fine for me, but it will be almost fine for Anakin too. Speaking of that, the suffering is a part of the human existence and the Jedi avoided it, but why? It is impossible that a human couldn't feel any suffering during his/her life and the Jedi thought that the lack of suffering makes them stronger. Well, for me is the opposite, to pass trough the suffering makes any person stronger, by the Anakin proves that also.
In the same aspect I disagree with p.8. In the mentioned conversation Yoda said also: Attachment leads to jealousy. Not all attachment lead to jealousy the challenge is to find the temptation of the possession and to stay with the love. Because if someone is free of any attachment, he/she cannot be human, cannot be person. Even the Jedi were attached to their masters.
By the way, great thread, Antpocalypse. I will answer in details latter, because this is serious and interesting and deserve more than agree/disagree opinion.

 

When it comes to mourning loved ones, anger is well and truly part of the process. I felt it when my stepfather died. I felt it less when my brother died and not at all with my grandparents. But for a Jedi, anger is dangerous. We saw what happened when Anakin mourned for his mother in AOTC. He turned his grief into anger, fueled by his fear of being alone. His fear of failure was also an important factor in his killing the Tusken Raiders, because he was used to fixing problems and things. But the one thing that he couldn't fix, a personal thing, drove him to do bad things.

As to suffering, Yoda wasn't talking about Anakin's suffering. He was talking about the suffering of others when one has fallen to the dark side. When fear leads to anger, leads to hate, suffering will occur.

It isn't attachment leads to jealousy. Jealousy is one aspect of the dark side, which is fueled by both fear and anger. In ROTS, we see Anakin get upset at the idea that Obi-wan had come to Padme's apartment. He was jealous of their friendship and angry at the notion that something was going on that he wasn't privy to. He didn't want someone else getting in the way of his relationship with Padme. And as we saw in TCW, this was not the first time Anakin was jealous.





Lucas explains what attachments are in the Saga.

"This is obviously a very pivotal scene for Anakin because this is reuniting with his mother and his youth and at the same time dealing with his inability to let go of his emotions and allow himself to accept the inevitable. The fact that everything must change and that things come and go through his life and that he can't hold onto things which is a basic Jedi philosophy that he isn't willing to accept emotionally and the reason that is because he was raised by his mother rather than the Jedi. If he'd have been taken in his first year and started to study to be a Jedi, he wouldn't have this particular connection as strong as it is and he'd have been trained to love people but not to become attached to them. But he has become attached to his mother and he will become attached to Padme and these things are, for a Jedi, who needs to have a clear mind and not be influenced by threats to their attachments, a dangerous situation. And it feeds into fear of losing things, which feeds into greed, wanting to keep things, wanting to keep his possessions and things that he should be letting go of. His fear of losing her turns to anger at losing her, which ultimately turns to revenge in wiping out the village. The scene with the Tusken Raiders is the first scene that ultimately takes him on the road to the dark side. I mean he's been prepping for this, but that's the one where he's sort of doing something that is completely inappropriate."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"The scene in the garage here, we begin to see that what he's really upset about is the fact that he's not powerful enough. That if he had more power, he could've kept his mother. He could've saved her and she could've been in his life. That relationship could've stayed there if he'd have been just powerful enough. He's greedy in that he wants to keep his mother around, he's greedy in that he wants to become more powerful in order to control things in order to keep the things around that he wants. There's a lot of connections here with the beginning of him sliding into the dark side. And it also shows his jealousy and anger at Obi-Wan and blaming everyone else for his inability to be as powerful as he wants to be, which he hears that he will be, so here he sort of lays out his ambition and you'll see later on his ambition and his dialogue here is the same as Dooku's. He says "I will become more powerful than every Jedi." And you'll hear later on Dooku will say "I have become more powerful than any Jedi." So you're going start to see everybody saying the same thing. And Dooku is kind of the fallen Jedi who was converted to the dark side because the other Sith Lord didn't have time to start from scratch, and so we can see that that's where this is going to lead which is that it is possible for a Jedi to be converted. It is possible for a Jedi to want to become more powerful, and control things. Because of that, and because he was unwilling to let go of his mother, because he was so attached to her, he committed this terrible revenge on the Tusken Raiders."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"The key part of this scene ultimately is Anakin saying "I'm not going to let this happen again." We're cementing his determination to become the most powerful Jedi. The only way you can really do that is to go to the dark side because the dark side is more powerful. If you want the ultimate power you really have to go to the stronger side which is the dark side, but ultimately it would be your undoing. But it's that need for power and the need for power in order to satisfy your greed to keep things and to not let go of things and to allow the natural course of life to go on, which is that things come and go, and to be able to accept the changes that happen around you and not want to keep moments forever frozen in time."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"When you get down to where we are right now in the story, you basically get somebody who’s going to make a pact with the Devil, and it’s going to be a pact with the Devil that says, 'I want the power to save somebody from death. I want to be able to stop them from going to the river Styx, and I need to go to a god for that, but the gods won’t do it, so I’m going to go down to Hades and get the Dark Lord to allow me to have this power that will allow me to save the very person I want to hang on to.' You know, it’s Faust. So Anakin wants that power, and that is basically a bad thing. If you’re going to sell your soul to save somebody you love, that’s not a good thing. That’s as we say in the film, unnatural. You have to accept that natural course of life. Of all things. Death is obviously the biggest of them all. Not only death for yourself but death for the things you care about."

--George Lucas, “Star Wars: The Last Battle,” Vanity Fair, 2005

"The Jedi are trained to let go. They're trained from birth," he continues, "They're not supposed to form attachments. They can love people- in fact, they should love everybody. They should love their enemies; they should love the Sith. But they can't form attachments. So what all these movies are about is: greed. Greed is a source of pain and suffering for everybody. And the ultimate state of greed is the desire to cheat death."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 213

"It's about a good boy who was loving and had exceptional powers, but how that eventually corrupted him and how he confused possessive love with compassionate love. That happens in Episode II: Regardless of how his mother died, Jedis are not supposed to take vengeance. And that's why they say he was too old to be a Jedi, because he made his emotional connections. His undoing is that he loveth too much."

--George Lucas, Rolling Stone Magazine Interview; June 2005.

 

Sort of forgot to include this earlier.

A stunningly raw answer by Bill Murray on his desire to be more "here":



Bill Murray: the sad clown/jester who's done a number of surprisingly existential movies in his career and exudes a beautiful intelligence just beneath a mischievous exterior.

If you want to be schooled in the Living Force a little bit, look anywhere you like, but don't forget to look to Bill.

 

Well, yes, the things are complicated; I was talking about the Anakin point of view when he discusses his premonitions with Yoda in ROTS. But as the problem of love and attachments (of any kind) are pivotal for both OT and PT, I would try to explain it in details.

My point was that of course the Jedi think that not all attachments lead to jealousy but there is always a risk. And we should avoid the risk, because if not, we will become weak and our mind could be clouded by the Dark Side. It looks logical but is not the right way to escape the path of Dark side and all that happened in the movies , proves it.
Let see what did Anakin in this aspect. In AOTC he chooses the attachment to his mother and not "live and let go" , the Jedi way and he almost succeeded to save her. Let face it, if he deviated from the Jedi way earlier, he would succeed to save her, he would never kill in rage all the Tusken people and he will be happy and calm to know that his mother is living free and happy life with someone who loves her and in this case Anakin really would become a great dedicated Jedi. I would say that he take the decision to go and save his mother when his mind is clear: Obi Wan isn't there to teach him that this is not the Jedi path and Padme refused (apparently) their relationship, but even this is not so important about the problem with his mother; the most important thing is that Anakin in that moments is isolated from the rest of the Jedi, and he could think a little bit more -alone- what is right and what is wrong. If only he could do it earlier, many things would change and he knows it.
In AOTC he 3 times breaks the rules and chooses the attachment instead of Jedi path and the second time is for Obi Wan. Well, in the beginning he tried to follow the orders -and that is the Jedi path, stay loyal to the Order, but when Padme proposes him a solution, he accepts it no matter it is against the Jedi rules. And they almost succeeded: at least the execution of Obi Wan is delayed and the rest of the Jedi have the time to come and intervene.
And the third time is the wedding, of course, and this is the crucial moment of the PT: should Anakin marry to Padme if this attachment leads to the destruction of both characters? Yes, it leads to the birth of the new hope of the Galaxy also, but it leads to the triumph of the Sith in the same time. Apparently the Jedi were right: the attachment to Padme become the big weakness of Anakin and let face it: it was the main reason to convert him to the Dark Side, but let think for a moment what would happen if the marriage wouldn't forbidden for the Jedi, what would happen? Nobody knows but at least he would call for help to Obi Wan or the entire order, the influence of Palpatine over him wouldn’t be so strong, etc. etc.

The funny thing is that his son also chooses the path of the attachment and he succeeds in that path. If he didn't choose it in TESB, he would never know that Darth Vader is his father and probably he could even kill him, or at least try to do it (horrendous sin). In the end of ROTJ he opposes to what the other Jedi said to him and saves his father and this is the end of the Empire, because Anakin also chooses the love and sacrifices for his son. So, who was right about the attachments?

Talking about love and the unconditional love, I accept and love that. For me there are obvious references between the Jedi Order and the Knights Templar Order not only in the structure and their way of life, but also in their values. But I dare to say that a difference from the Knights Templar who as Christians should love their enemies also, the Jedi don't do it. If they did it, it would be in fact unconditional love, but is not exactly that way. Look what happen when Yoda ad Obi Wan knew that Anakin has turned to the Dark Side. Did they say: we must save him? No, they said: we must destroy the Sith. It is impossible to come back from the Dark side so Anakin is forever lost. The only one, who tried to save him, is Padme. I suppose if Obi Wan didn't go in Mustafar, Padme was able to bring back Anakin or at least make him hesitate about his path but she didn't have this chance, neither Anakin had it. In the end, Luke saves him, again choosing the path of him mother, the path of love. So, the Jedi were right about the unconditional love, just they failed to follow that path. I strongly disapprove how merciless they become when they have to complete some task. They were ready to do everything even stand against their friends (as Obi Wan in ROTS). Anakin always tried to do the opposite. Well, he failed fatally in ROTS, but is because he made another mistake: thinking that making a deal with the devil could bring him to good end. All the opposite, it always brings to hell. Luke refuses to make such deal and that’s why he could accomplish his mission.

 

I continue with p.5 and 9 of Antpocalypse because they are connected, in my opinion.
The funny thing is that the Jedi haven't the same opinions about many crucial themes and values. I would give an example with obi Wan and Qui Gon thought about some topics. About the thinking: is not that Qui Gon refuses to think, but he is not in favor of the rationalization of the problems. When they are stacked in Tattoine what is the reaction I'm sure that another decision will appear itself. So, he is not trying to rationalize or control his life ( I mean in such moments when it doesn't depend of him). He is ready to stop and to wait. Qui Gon did exactly that when he and Darth Maul were trapped between the energy fields: Qui Gon waited, meditating (i.e. patiently) and Darth Maul tried to cut the energy field, i.e. to act.
On the other hand, the Obi Wan's view about the patience is different: the patience gives you the tome to think about the solution (as in front of the club in AOTC). The funny thing is as Qui Gon said to Anakin: feel, don't think and Anakin win the podrace but Obi Wan said: think and Anakin couldn’t find Zam (in the end, Obi Wan catch her but exactly for his fast Jedi reflexes, not for the thinking).
So, i agree with the fact that patience is crucial for the Jedi. Because the impatience leads to mistakes and sometimes to anger ; and this was one of the biggest problems in Anakin's life. But I prefer the humble patience of Qui Gon instead of the rationalizational logic of Obi Wan.

 

The problem isn't that the Jedi way is wrong, it is that Anakin was too emotionally attached. He kills in rage in part because Palpatine has been telling him for ten years that he is the strongest of all Jedi. Greater than Yoda. So Anakin believes this and he believes that he can do anything because of who he is. And when he finds out that he cannot save everyone, he becomes inconsolable. He becomes obsessed with saving everyone because he developed a strong attachment to people and not principles.

When Anakin went to Geonosis, he was still doing the wrong thing because he was letting Padme put herself in danger due to it being the lion's den. He would have really lost it if Jango had shot her on sight and it would have been his fault for letting her go. As to getting married, well, that is still irrelevant. You're looking at the aftermath of what did happen. You miss that what should have happened is that Anakin, whether he married Padme or not, he should have chosen to let Padme die in order to stop Palpatine. He only turns because of his selfish desire to keep his wife alive. He put his needs ahead of everyone else's needs including Padme. Anakin needs to accept that Padme would die in childbirth and once he did, once he let go of his fears and attachment, then he would find incredible strength in the Force.


As to saving Luke, again, there is a difference. Anakin stops being afraid. He stops being angry. He stops being power hungry. He only cares about saving his son and not because he is afraid to lose him, but because it is the right thing to do. He thinks of his son's welfare over his own. He isn't doing it for power, but for compassion.

The Sith do have to die, that's the thing. It is what the prophecy is about and it is what the Jedi have done in the past and will do again.The thing is that this time, it needs to be Anakin that does it. Destroys the Sith. But the thing is that Padme couldn't reach him because even before Obi-wan revealed himself, Anakin was becoming angry and distrustful of Padme. Because she was going against him and his wishes. Luke is able to reach him because of what he did to her. That guilt was still there and it is what brings about his internal struggle.

 

Tonyg

Thanks so much for all your awesome input as always! I really can't disagree with your points about how things happened in the PT. But maybe I'm a bit confused about the following point:

It's true, attachment doomed Anakin and it may have also saved him in the end. Although even more than attachment, I feel it was Luke's compassion which saved him. I don't know if you could call Luke's trust and compassion for Vader, an attachment. It felt more like truly unconditional love and the fact that Luke and Padme shared the trait of seeing the good in people, even when others thought they were irredeemable. So is it really attachment that saved Anakin or was it unconditional love?

Also, while reading your words and darth-sinister's Lucas quotes, I just felt so sad at Anakin's story. It didn't help that this beautiful motif from ESB has been stuck in my head all day and I was just listening to it, which I recommend you guys do too.

It's from 4:52 to 5:35, especially the insanely hauntingly beautiful part from 5:26 to 5:35. It makes me feel like crying since the music is so haunting and you guys have just written about Anakin's whole turn to the dark side in such an amazing fashion.





darth-sinister

Oh my freaking god. Thank you so much for those quotes from Lucas!!!! So informative and beautiful and amazing! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!



Cryogenic





You truly deserve a standing ovation my man!!

I am absolutely in love with your way of thinking.

I swear, I wish more people thought like you do. I wish people could see that we are on the brink of change and that if we don't educate ourselves in the right manner about the solutions we will have to implement to save this world, we will end up losing everything. Everyone is so caught up in their own little worlds, they choose to or are inescapably programmed to ignore the bigger picture. To ignore what is really going on in this world and what all we can do to save it from self destructing. And I wish everyone who hates on the PT could get past their superficial problems with it and honestly take a long and deep look at what the PT really has to offer and what life lessons and morals it is trying to give us.

That is beautifully poignant and quote worthy brotha. Sad, but true. I feel the exact same way about religion and all things in the realm of the 'supernatural'. That is why I chose Naturalism and science as the only true and accurate way of perceiving and understanding the world around me.

I have no words. Just beautiful.

Over the last few years I have been struggling with personal relations and forming strong attachments and having a hard time letting go. Expecting too much from people in return for my love, adoration and/or friendship. Recent events in my life have finally taught me the power of acceptance and moving on instead of holding on for more than my appointed time. I already helped myself in the past few days by typing out the OP, but you have no idea how much more these words of yours are helping me to improve myself and my life right now. Thank you for this.

Yes, so much yes to this. I am finally learning to free myself from focusing on the negative and these words help so much.

That.....that's just. Oh my word. That might just be the most beautiful thing I have ever read. And to then find out that was the final word on Lucas's Star Wars. This brings so many happy tears to my eyes and gives some much needed strength and support to my beliefs. Thanks for sharing this!!

Carl Sagan. That man. The under appreciated gem of our times. That quote basically sums up what I feel about the purpose of life. We make our own purpose and the best purpose comes from doing those things.

Haha, you're the second or third person to tell me that I think like a Stoic. I guess I do. After going through a highly emotional rollercoaster ride of a life, hurting myself and my loved ones in the process, I have decided that enough is enough. It requires much more strength to "accept things that I cannot change, change the things I can and be wise enough to know the difference."

My god, did Plato nail down the Id, Ego and Super Ego concepts thousands of years before Freud or what?

THANK YOU! You can quote me on that and add it to your collection of quotes.

It is actually the one major thing that I have been following to get complete control over my emotions. There came a point in life last year when I had an epiphany of sorts, I realised that whatever I think is the reason for XYZ person to do ABC towards me, is not really the one and ONLY reason for that behaviour. Every human being has a million unique experiences that form up their being and inform their decisions and so what I may think about something or the way I look at something, the other person may not. I'm not the only thing in people's lives and their decisions aren't based solely on me or my personality or my behaviour.

It's the day I stopped blaming myself for losing friendships or failing relationships and the day I stopped gauging my self worth by other people's treatment of me or how they thought about me or valued me. If someone doesn't value me doesn't mean I have low intrinsic value as a person. It just means I have low value in that specific person's life for some specific reasons and that shouldn't lower my self esteem or bring me down. That shouldn't make me angry or sad or frustrated.

Emotions are now in my control since the only thing I need is to understand things and look at them logically and once I have understood the causality for some problem in my life, it no longer incites negative emotional reactions from me since I know why things are happening the way they are and I know exactly what I need to do or not do about them. Knowledge is truly liberating.

That is so nicely put. It is one of the main reasons why I love exploring and watching all types of movies, from live action to animated, from comedy to horror, from sci-fi to fantasy. I never know when some movie will reveal something new to me and expand and enhance my thought processes and way of thinking into something greater.

Haha, I love the TMNT too. Although I didn't grow up watching the TV show, I just really love the colorful characters and the concepts and themes that those characters stand for.

Haha, awesome! Couldn't be more true! Stan "The Man" Kubrick knows what he's talking about.

Absolutely beautiful quotes. I have always tried to live life like that and I will agree it greatly simplifies things when you do not desire too much, materially. Although you can tell your friend that it's completely cool to collect quotes. I like to do that too.

Aww shucks mate. Thanks. Means a lot coming from someone as wise as you!

I thank you for taking up the gauntlet and for giving such an in-depth response with your usual high flying vocabulary, which I can only ever be grateful for since it helps me expand my own and improve my English too.

Yes, I feel few people understand the value of communication and how much it can help us expand ourselves, our knowledge bases, our minds and and our scopes in life. I'm so glad I decided to communicate my thoughts with you guys and got such amazing responses!

And about that quote, they are definitely the very wise words of a very wise man! Have patience and not haste and things will be much easier to handle or another solution will come before us when our minds and thoughts are clear. So true!

Thank you for adding this!!

I knew I was missing something when I wrote the OP at first. And you will not believe me but funnily enough I was going through TPM and I actually went through the part when Qui Gon is telling Obi Wan to live in the moment and be mindful of the living force, and I knew that there was something important in there but I couldn't pull any useful principle from that for some reason. You did it though and I thank you for that!

And I totally agree with your point about not being shackled to any particular ideology or system. That is what I love about science, it is constantly changing and updating itself to give us a more accurate understanding of the world around us. And I couldn't agree more with "be prepared to revise them as experience molds you and new data comes in."

Perfectly and simply put.

The 10 commandments are now COMPLETE! Go forth my minions and spread the true word of the Force!

I always felt that Greek philosophers were the most advanced group of their times and that the loss of all their combined knowledge when the Library of Alexandria was destroyed is the single worst tragedy and travesty ever to face mankind.

It set us back 2000 years. Just imagine if instead of religion taking over the world, it was their science and philosophy. If instead of dogma we had truths to live by.

Every time I learn about some useful piece of Greek philosophy, I lament its loss to the ages. We may still have some of their knowledge, but we are far from applying it usefully in the real world.

Now, those quotes from Lucas just made me love him 100 times more. It's the first time I'm getting to know of them and my respect levels for him just went OVER 9000!!!!111

He's the philosopher we need but not the one we deserve right now. He is truly the real world Yoda and we better start listening to him before it's too late. Sadly most people can't even get over their hate for the PT for 11 minutes and listen to a wise man without any pre-conceived notions and judgement about the quality of his words. That much is apparent from the comments section, sigh.

That quote about happiness might be some of the most amazing words I have read in my life. It's how I strive to live life and I'm so glad that one of my heroes and my favourite director of all time thinks the same way.

Haha, yeah I do that too! You better believe I'm saving those quotes you appended at the end there! Thanks!



In conclusion, Master Cryo will you please take me as your apprentice. I wish to be a Padawan learner under your powerful guidance and I pledge my life to the Jedi way! I will be a Jedi Master, soon I will become the MOST POWERFUL JEDI EVAAAA!!!.........(Oh wops, was I saying that last part out loud??) *Looks around and runs away*



But honestly my friend, thank you so much for your wonderful response. It has made me wiser and more knowledgeable and that is the best gift a person can give another.

 

Gentlemen, this is an exciting thread, but I find myself in the unfortunate position not to have or be able to take the time to be able to read and respond in an appropriate manner.

While I agree with the majority of comments and quotes, the one lesson that irritates me a bit is # 5 which IMHO is the exact same as # 8:

5. Do not let your emotions control you.

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering." - Master Yoda

The context:

KI-ADI : YOur thoughts dwell on your mother.
ANAKIN : I miss her.
YODA : Afraid to lose her..I think.
ANAKIN : (a little angry) What's that got to do with anything?
YODA : Eveything. Fear is the path to the dark side... fear leads to
anger... anger leads to hate.. hate leads to suffering.

This is less about emotions but about attachments and IMHO a very nice tip-to-the-hat towards Buddhism (keyword "suffering") and the Four Noble Truths: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths

"The first truth explains the nature of dukkha. Dukkha is commonly translated as "suffering", "anxiety", "unsatisfactoriness", "unease", etc., and it is said to have the following three aspects:

• The obvious suffering of physical and mental illness, growing old, and dying.
• The anxiety or stress of trying to hold onto things that are constantly changing.
• A subtle dissatisfaction pervading all forms of life due to the fact that all forms of life are changing, impermanent and without any inner core or substance. On this level, the term indicates a lack of satisfaction, a sense that things never measure up to our expectations or standards."

What I read into Yoda's statement is fear (to loose something) that leads to anger (desperately holding on to something you can't stop from changing / loosing) which leads to hate (realization you can't stop change / loss) which leads to suffering (not accepting that you can't change / won't accept to loose).

The ultimate goal in Buddhism is to get rid of your desires and thus stop the suffering that's the obstacle to enlightenment.

There is definitely a lot of ambiguity in Yoda's statement, especially when cross-referenced to his one in ESB which apparently revolves around emotions.

"Do not let your emotions control you" sounds like something I'd expect from Mr. Spock as if those had or could to be kept under lock and key at all times. But IIRC Freud, Jung and the others (including Joseph Campbell as a follower of Jung) make it clear that that's impossible. These contribute to who and what we are.

Which ultimately brings me to the Delphic maxims - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphic_maxims - of which two in particular are probably the most important ones (though I forgot which philosopher claimed they are, I believe Socrates or Plato):

• Know thyself
• Nothing to excess

I think the latter is compliant with the balance of the Force.

 

Beans lead to flatulence.