Jolee Bindo: Follower of the Potentium?

I was playing through KOTOR for the second time today, and saw this piece of diolougue I didn't receive my last time through:

Bastila: I know you have...isuues... with the Order. But you are a Jedi, Jolee. You command the Force. Without the guidance of the Jedi Council how can you avoid falling to the darkside?

Jolee: Well, I've managed to avoid it for the last 20 years or so. Besides, Light side, Dark side,: They dont mean the same to me as they do to you.

Player Character: So you don't have a problem with Malak and the Sith?

Jolee: I want to stop Malak as much as anyone. But I don't have to join the order to do it. Look at Carth, or Canderous. They're with us in this quest, but they aren't Jedi. The capacity for good or evil, like the Force itself, is in all living creatures. And belonging to the Jedi order, or the Sith, or any group, won't change what you are at your core.

>>>>

I found that interesting to say the least. Now I may be jumping the gun here, being that I haven't finished all of Jolee's sidequest and such, but I can't help but speculate. Is his "Issues" with the order adressed later on? Makes me wonder if the Potentium's roots run deeper than I thought. Some of his ideas remind me of Vergere, and others. Could he possibly have a deeper understanding of the Force, knowing of the "Unifying Force" as told in TUF?

So whats the deal with Jolee? hmm...maybe I need to just wait and see?

Thanks.

-Jabba out

 

Oddly the Unifying Force has nothing to do with Vergere's belief structures.

 

The Jedi Council in TPM were all followers of the Unifying Force, and practiced it.

Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were part of the very few Jedi that practiced the "Living Force" in the old order.

 

I'm not that certain about Obi-Wan. He was more of a follower of the Unifying Force than the Living Force. At least for most of his life. Maybe by ANH, he found the balance between the Unifying and the Living Force, just as Jolee did.

But I agree that Qui-Gon was a devout follower of the Living Force.

As for Vergere and Jolee, I think both of them are in agreement on one issue - both seemed to stress the importance of self-knowledge. Or at the very least strongly believe in Shakespeare's "To thy own self be true" line, and allow that belief to guide their actions and use of the Force.

 

Obi-Wan talks about how he uses the Living Force in Battle of Naboo. He tells that other Jedi with him, had they been better tapped into the Living force he'd know what was happening to the creatures on the moon. He accredits his knowledge of the living force to Qui-Gon.

 

Jolee is definitely not a Potentium follower. He talks aboutthe Dark Side as a real thing later on.

What he was saying is that the potential for good and evil, the potential to serve the Light Side or the Dark Side is in every sentient being whether he's sensitive to the Force or not. That is something i've been saying for years.

 

Actually, Jolee says something to the extent of "I don't see things as light or dark; all I see is grey."

 

Actually, Jolee says something to the extent of "I don't see things as light or dark; all I see is grey."

Thats what makes me wonder. Jolee is hanging around for more than just to "see how Revan turns out", despite how much of a senile hermit he comes off as....IMO

-Jabba out

 

"The Jedi Council in TPM were all followers of the Unifying Force, and practiced it."

So why didn't Yoda or Obi-Wan teach it to Luke?

"Actually, Jolee says something to the extent of "I don't see things as light or dark; all I see is grey.""

That was a half-joke about his eyesight. He later says that the Jedi left him, which is the cause of the above comment.

"Jolee is hanging around for more than just to "see how Revan turns out", despite how much of a senile hermit he comes off as....IMO"

No, he definately leaves Kashyyyk to 'see how Revan turns out.' He knows you have a destiny, and is just watching and waiting to see how it turns out, whether it's engine-sucking Andor or something else, that's what he wants to find out.

 

Yet later on he says his wife fell tot he Dark Side.

He sees grey in all of us because we all have the potential for light and darkness...but we can choose to embrace one or the other when , irreversibly at some point.

Does that make sense?

 

I doubt it. Mild spoliers:


















Jolee's wife, whom he trained against the order's wishes, turned to the dark with Exar Kun. He definitely believes in the dark side, even though he has a looser standard and structure than most Jedi, like Bastila. If you mind-trick the guy at a spaceport to let you through without paying, Jolee will approve and Bastila will not. I can see the Potentium belief making sense during the days of the Yuuzhan Vong, but it (IMHO) has not place in KotOR.

 

No, he definately leaves Kashyyyk to 'see how Revan turns out.' He knows you have a destiny, and is just watching and waiting to see how it turns out, whether it's engine-sucking Andor or something else, that's what he wants to find out.

I didn't deny that. I was just saying that I think Jolee isn't entirely about to just "observe" the events of destiny or what not.

Jolee said:

"The capacity for good or evil, like the Force itself, is in all living creatures. And belonging to the Jedi order, or the Sith, or any group, won't change what you are at your core. "

I took that as him saying one of two things:

1. It doesen't really matter what You claim to be or belong to, If you are a corrupt Fiend, you are that way anyway. Your groupies have no affect on this.

2. Sith, Jedi, Mandalorians, all have there ways and beliefs, but its the intention that counts in the end.

Now what I said may not make much sense, but I do see a bit of Vergere and Sekot in what he is saying.

Or to put a idea of what Jolee-or atleast what I think- might be trying to get across in a more humorous way, in the form of this Hilarious web comic: http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=010730

Its even funnier when you think about how inherently Evil the Black Mage is...

-Jabba out

 

That was a half-joke about his eyesight.

No, it wasn't. I can't remember what they were, but there were other statements attatched to the one I paraphrased suggesting it was a serious metaphor.

 

Blithe: "1. It doesen't really matter what You claim to be or belong to, If you are a corrupt Fiend, you are that way anyway. Your groupies have no affect on this."

Revan was a Jedi war hero turned Dark Lord of the Sith turned savior of the Republic. I don't think what you got out of it was quite right.

"2. Sith, Jedi, Mandalorians, all have there ways and beliefs, but its the intention that counts in the end."

I quote the old man on this. "Sometimes the average robe-wearing Jedi can mean good but end up being completely wrong" although I really don't think what you and Jolee are saying is a really morally correct, that someone's intention justifies their actions, that they're absolved of responsibility.

 

I didn't get the talk about his wife. I take it she was killed during the war right or did he himself actually kill her? Was anything more said on this?

 

She was killed at Yavin after being quite succesful killing many Jedi. When Exar first called out for Jedi to join him, Jolee's wife tried to persuade him to join Exar with her. Eventually, she became frustrated and attacked him. At that point, she fell to the Dark Side. Jolee defeated her but couldn't bring himself to kill her, so she left.

Jolee was brought to trial by the Jedi for not killing her and training her against the Council's wishes. They, much to Jolee's disgust and dismay, found him innocent. That's when the Jedi 'left him' and he began seeing things in greys, not absolutes.

 

If this Jolee Bindo is from the Knights of the Old Republic game, then wouldn't he be pre-Potentium?

 

The Potentium is more of a was of thinking so there was no "pre" potentium just the same idea in different eras

 

What this thread has taught me is that I better pair up Bindo and Bastila next time I play KOTOR. I'm missing some good lines!

Bindo's a blast. You never know what he'll have you grining at next.

 

recruit, I respectfully disagree.

The philosophy or ideology behind The Potentium might not have "pre-" as it is, to use your words, "a way of thinking" about the Force.

However, The Potentium as a "way", as a "doctrine", as something to "follow", was established by Padawans who gained supporters and were expelled from the Jedi Order "about a hundred years before the Battle of Naboo" (per TCUSWE). What those errant Jedi did was give a name, a lable to the ideology, the "way of thinking". So, there is a "pre-Potentium" approximate date, if viewed from this perspective.

To say that Jolee Bindo was a "follower of the Potentium" is not quite accurate, IMO. Did he share their ideology? Perhaps. Did he prefigure The Potentium? Maybe. But I'm certain a lot of Jedi between Bindo's time and that of the founders of The Potentium thought about the Force in the same way or very similar ways.

 

The "Potentium" was a specific group of people during the prequel era, that came up with the name "Potentium".

However the Jedi later retroactively applied the name "Potentium" to cover a group of "herasies" that had been used by Potentium, and others throughout the ages, the "Potentium herasies".

 

While there was a group called the Potentium in a later era, that does not mean the ideas were not thought of yet.

If Jolee was around at the time when the Potentium Group was I believe that he would be part of it.

 

The same ideas existed before the Potentium, but they weren't called the "Potentium Herasies" until a group of padawans came up with the name "Potentium" in the Prequel Movie era. The name "Potentium Herasies" was retroactively applied to the all of the same kinds of beliefs used throughout the ages, even the ones before the padawans came up with the name "Potentium".

 

Jabba, Jolee comes across as a 'human imperative' guy, rather than a Potentium guy. Me and my human imperative, eh? I can't let it die.

Plus, Bindo = 4 2 Win

 

I really can't see Jolee Bindo being himself from about 300 years after KotOR to the Galactic Civil War; he would have been found at birth (IIRC he wasn't) and indoctrinated into the Jedi way, becoming a "pawn of the Jedi Council", in Bastila's words. He only has the "crazy ideas" because he had a much stranger career than that of a "normal" Jedi.


I want to see someone write an Infinities fanfic about a juxtaposition of 9-year old Anakin Skywalker and Jolee Bindo, if Jolee was the Chosen One and Anakin an old hermit. There are some superficial similarities: both pilots, both broke the order's wishes to marry, both mavericks, both met their wives because of piloting skills. Or, even funnier, write a story about Anakin getting captured by the CIS, and demanding to be freed. Of course, the commander dumps him down the power generator, and the ship explodes in the center of the fleet, taking out several other ships, including Dooku's with Sidious aboard. I would laugh for a long time if that happened.