Just how good a General WAS Obi Wan Kenobi?

It just occurs to me that if we are listing the greatest tacticians in the Star Wars Galaxy, it might be a good idea to not only include Ackbar but also Obi Wan Kenobi. Why do I particularly say this?

Obi Wan Kenobi was a fairly minor Jedi Knight at the start of the Clone Wars. He was saddled with the task of teaching the Chosen One but he wasn't exactly described in the Jedi apprentice books as anything truly exceptional. In fact, the Jedi Quest adventures go out of their way to show that Obi Wan's accomplishments WERE fairly hit and miss. Aside from capturing a Sith holocron and beating Krayn, I can't think of any "totally unsullied" victories.

However, during the war, Obi Wan Kenobi apparently earned himself the right to sit on the Jedi Council and (Anakin's ignorance aside) the title of Jedi Master even before Anakin's status as a knight was confirmed. This can only be due to Obi Wan Kenobi's war successes.

It's noteworthy that during the war Obi Wan Kenobi sits with Yoda and Mace Windu with the Supreme Chancellor as one of the key decision makers during the war. There are countless Jedi Masters in Star Wars yet Obi Wan is one of the one's called upon for military counsel.

Admiral Ackbar comments on Obi Wan Kenobi's well known maneuvers in The Truce at Bakura.

Obi Wan Kenobi has also earned a title just like Anakin Skywalker, unlike any other jedi knights and unlike Anakin (whose heroics seem to be what was responsible) his title is built on the ability to convince enemies to stand down. While this might be a diplomat's title more, its a fabulous skill to have in war as Thrawn demonstrated.

Known accomplishments of Obi Wan as a general

* The successful defense of Kamino
* The successful conquest of the planet Muulinst
* The attack on Utapau that we can presume is successful despite Order 66

Part of why it may be easy to overlook Obi Wan's campaigns is ironically the same reason many overlook Darth Vader's military skill. Obi Wan Kenobi is able to lead but he's also fairly insistant on handling mission objectives personally whenever possible that his skill as a warrior may overshadow his command ability.

 

Along the same lines, it's interesting to note that in the RotS novelization, the Council chooses Obi-Wan to go after Grievous because he's their (and I quote) "most cunning and insightful Master - and [their] most tenacious." I'd say Obi-Wan's primary strengths are his tactical cunning and his insight into the mind of his enemy.

Which also makes the point that her rarely sees anything in the black-and-white enemy/ally view that most other Jedi (including Anakin) have - the reason for his many "conversions." He sees them as possible allies and finds ways to use that to his advantage.

He is also extremely flexible, though often methodical. The two combined make him incredibly dangerous because you can never predict if he's going to be methodical or just do like Qui-Gon taught him and throw the plan out the window, adapting as he goes.

He's arguably the best Jedi general in the Clone Wars, from what evidence we've been given.

 

A cunning general and warrior definately. He survived Geonosis, Jabiim, General Grievous (subsequently taking him out), Order 66, and Darth Vader in his prime.
There's no such thing as luck? I'm beginning to think his mother was a horse shoe and his father was a four leaf clover :b

 

That would be the Kenobi Offensive.

So, General Kenobi is not only a formidable swordsman, decent pilot (in spite of his distate for piloting), a skilled commander at ground warfare (as evidenced by the many battles in the CW cartoon and Republic comics), but he's also accomplished in starship warfare.

While on the topic of Jedi Generals, does anyone else think it's lame that pretty much every Jedi we saw fighting in the Clone Wars ranked knight and above got promoted to General? Seems pretty topheavy. Surely there could have been Jedi Commanders, Captains, etc, with only actual proven tacticians/leaders getting the General rank.

I've heard references to "General Anakin Skywalker" on the boards and elsewhere, but never actually seen it in the EU. Was Anakin a General? That would really take the lamecake. He's just a grunt, not a leader.

 

The effective "rule by fiat" was that Supreme Chancellor Palpatine gave all Jedi the rank of Knight or above the rank of General and a collection of clone troopers. All padawans were given the rank of Colonel.

This was to be a 'stop gape' measure for the fact that there was no officer class at the moment and the entire army had been trained to follow the Jedi.

There were of course the problems you could expect from such a thing. Jedi are a monastic order and many of them were either completely unfit for leadership of military operations due to inability (the ability in the Force does NOT translate into mastery of everything), too great a respect for life (of either troops or soldiers), sympathy for the Confederacy, or their' being used to handling things a decidedly different way. Plenty just out and out died on the field of battle or did not join up...not to mention Ventress/Durge/Grevious/Dooku/Dooku's Dark Jedi killed god knows how many.

Obi Wan Kenobi, unlike any other Jedi (save possibly Mace or Yoda who both have alluded to having their own military experience), had experience as a military commander on the planet Meelida/Daan. It was also spoken there that Obi Wan was a natural strategist and tactician whom was able to quickly defeat the entirety of a well managed force there. It's only a short several months experience (maybe a year) but that's more than most jedi had. In fact, its more than many generals in the real world have of actual combat experience.

Re: Anakin

Anakin was indeed a General and I wouldn't count him entirely out. If nothing else, Muulinst shows that Anakin was an accomplished starfighter commander. He also did reasonably well in Jedi Trial but how much was his tactical skill is questionable.

 

And, of course, that was just a setup to get as many as possible on the battlefield to be easily gunned down when Order 66 went out.

 

Also, don't forget whatever planet they were on at the beginning of Clone Wars Chapter 22. Despite the fact that Anakin was the one who found the weakness, this is still a victory for general Kenobi. (And also a good shove-it to all the Vader nay-sayers who say he's all brawn and no brain.) Makes you think of Vader in a whole new light, knowing that he is the same man trained by the great General Kenobi. I'm sure he learned a few strategies from his former master.

Also it makes you look at the Grievous fight in a new light too. The best of the Republic generals vs. the best of the Confederacy generals. I like that.

 

It's noteworthy that Melida/Daan's conflict was also one where Obi Wan for whatever reason (personal angst or the conflict around him) was not one where he used the Force. Somehow, Obi Wan is gifted enough that he beat hardened veterans solely through use of his own intellect and brain.

But one can imagine that even clouded as the Force was, the ability to see the future would have only made him an even more effective commander. Much like Thrawn whose abilities rivaled prescience.

 

Somehow, Obi Wan is gifted enough that he beat hardened veterans solely through use of his own intellect and brain.

Lot's of Axis and Allies my friend

 

Good points, C19. I don't think we have been giving Obi-Wan the respect he deserves on the military side of things. Mainly, people focus on the fact that he is the Master of the guy who destroyed the Jedi Order...not exactly a great thing to put on your "resume."

Kenobi was obvious well versed in tactics as well as being able to look at the big picture. Most have trouble being able to think both tactically and strategically (Anakin was good at tactics, not so at strategy).

 

Yes, sometimes people treat Obi Wan like he was a closet Sith.

*Anakin trains with a remote*

Anakin: OW!

Obi Wan: GIVE INTO YOUR HATRED!

Anakin: What?

Obi Wan: Use your aggressive feelings! STRIKE IT DOWN!

Anakin: I'm not sure...

Obi Wan: DO IT!

*Anakin screams and slashes through the remote while Yoda walks in*

*Obi Wan Gets up*

Obi Wan: Anakin! How many times have I told you...control your emotions!

Yoda: *Nods sagely at Obi Wan's counsel*

 

On the subject of Anakin, he was probably more of a tactics-heavy bulldog than guys like Thrawn (think of a comparision between Patton and Napoelan). Anakin is the kind of lead from the front commander that really insipires (and endears himself to) the troops. Thrawn is more detached, looking at the big picture and not getting involved in the exact details of fighting a battle (though he certainally excelled at this, too).

Obi Wan, however, had both. He is clearly wise, and able to manage whole campaings and out-smart and out-general skilled opponets. However, he is also uses the "follow me" style of leadership. For example, he started the Battle of Utapau entirely by himself, with the rest of his army still light-years away (or at least not on planet). In a lot of ways, he's probably the most skilled commander we've seen in Star Wars to date.

 

Hmmmm...was looking about in a few sources for this one, but I don't think the "all Padawans were promoted to Colonels"-thing is truly official. In every major story where the in situ Republic military hierarchy is depicted, all padawans are given or referred to by the rank of "Commander," with (of course) full Knights getting breveted to field general.

A specific passage from Jedi Trial, which carefully delineates betwixt the staff Jedi and your standard battlefield gropo:

"Forward!" Anakin shouted, and started up the hill. The companies, battalions, and regiments rolled forward behind him, firing and maneuvering as they went, but the line faltered under the devastating fire from the top of the hill, then stopped as casualties mounted and the survivors went to ground, seeking whatever cover the terrain offered from the destruction pouring onto them from above.

"Put artillery on that hill," Anakin ordered over the command net, forgetting the proper comm procedure in his excitement.

"This is Commander Skywalker -- give us back that artillery support! You're dropping rounds on our transports. Readjust your fire. We're being slaughtered down here. We are pinned down. Repeat, we are pinned down! Over."

Thinking this was some kind of trick -- the order to adjust fire had just come from the FDC and presumably the army commander himself -- the battery commanders assigned to support Anakin's troopers hesitated, then asked for confirmation from the FDC, and the shells continued dropping on the transports.

The fire from the droids only intensified. Few of the clone troopers were able to return it. Frustrated, Anakin toggled to Halcyon's command net. "General Halcyon, this is Anakin. What's going on? I'm pinned down here, my own artillery is firing on my rear, and the enemy in my front is killing us!"

Halcyon started when he heard Anakin's voice booming over the loudspeakers in the command post, and everyone stopped what he or she was doing. "Anakin, hold on." He turned to his artillery liaison. "Get me Colonel Manks."

"You gave me that order just a little while ago," Manks said when Halcyon asked what was happening. "Adjust fires at one hundred- meter intervals to cover our retreating troops --"

"Our net has been compromised," an officer gasped. "You gave no such order!" He looked at Halcyon.

"Colonel, cover the retreat on the left but put fire on that hill on the right immediately. Anakin, as soon as the mortars start up again, get out of there -- I'm calling off the attack."

Might be wrong on this one, but to date all padawai have largely been ranked as commanders; in the comics, the novels, and the video games. Even if there's some super-obscure reference somewhere else that only applies to one single character (i.e., some hypothetical third-tier Temple Youngling emergency-birded up to "colonel" because the five ranking Jedi above her were dead, in a one-sentence microprint RPG sourcebook appendix footnote ), the evidenciary preponderance would support the "commander" policy over the "colonel" one.

Again, admit I could be off here, and might've missed some massively abstruse bit of esoterica somewheres, but I haven't truly found anything official to reinforce this.

 

Just a point-I'm pretty sure the other ranks were all filled by clones, with the Jedi running the show at multilegion battles-which were most of them.

 

True, the Colonel reference was replaced by Commander later. I always had the idea that everyone had multiple ranks honestly amongst the Jedi due to the mutliphase nature of the war.

It would be "Admiral Kenobi" and "General Kenobi" and so on.

That may explain some of the funkiness of star Wars military tradition

 

mmhmm.

"Oh, you had a lieutenant commission with the Empire, Han? GENERAL for you!"

 

Um . . . in Obsession 1 doesn't he land his fighter next to Anakin and Natalie, and not wonder what the hell was going on? Was that ever explained?

Um . . . when Greevy took his time drawing and igniting his 4 sabers on Utapau, he just stands there, rather than pulling the sabers to him quickly. Yes, yes, it's a movie, and the fight's over if he doesn't . . .

Um . . . he's only average.

And that's what makes him preferable, neither weak (well that's debatable) or strong.

 

Um . . . in Obsession 1 doesn't he land his fighter next to Anakin and Natalie, and not wonder what the hell was going on? Was that ever explained?

You missed the part where Obi Wan said that everyone in the Temple knew where Anakin was didn't you? It's actually almost indicative of corruption that they're holding this vast secret and yet everyone knows what's going on but ignore it because its Anakin.

Um . . . when Greevy took his time drawing and igniting his 4 sabers on Utapau, he just stands there, rather than pulling the sabers to him quickly. Yes, yes, it's a movie, and the fight's over if he doesn't . . .

I was guessing he was prepping his force powers.

 

Not to mention he absolutely mauled Grievous when the fight began. It wasn't even close.

 

Yeah, I haven't read any of Obsession yet(though I really want to) but even ROTS implies that some of the Jedi know Anakin and Padme are married. The scene where Yoda is teaching Anakin about how to face loss shows quite clearly Yoda knows Anakin cares for SOMEONE he shouldn't care for.

 

Yeah, I got the impression from Obsession that Obi-wan definitely knows.

"I don't care what you do with your leave time."

-Obi-Wan Kenobi to Anakin Skywalker.

A note on Jabiim-the Republic seemed to be winning until Obi-Wan was taken out of the picture.

Note #2: ROTS novel: Obi-Wan and Anakin are responsible for wiping out "scores" of Seppy infestations.

Plus the Palpatine rescue operation was conceived by Obi-Wan.

 

Hardly surprising. It seems to me that Obi-Wan has always (since becoming a Knight and later Master, at least) waited for the other guy to make his opening move, and tailored his response to fit. Examples are Dooku on Geonosis and on the Invisible Hand, and the case in point of the duel with Grievous. He even reacted to Anakin on Mustafar. Occaisonally, he was defeated (Geonosis for one), but other times he bested the foe.

 

Let's not forget his success on Ord Cestus...

 

So-quickie list of Obi-Wan's victories.

Defense of Kamino
Ohma Dun (he did seem to be giving orders to everyone including Glaive, and the seppy attack on Naboo was thwarted)
Ord Cestus
Palpatine rescue operation
Utapau
Muunilinst
The "scores" of Seppy infections he and Anakin are mentioned as defeating in the ROTS novel.

Not bad, not bad..

 

Sure, defeating a Sith Lord, leading armies successfully into battle, DEFEATING anakin, training Luke Skywalker in the Force, all those things suck (and that's just the beginning) and Obi-Wan sucks. I mean anyone's blind grandmother could slaughter Darth Maul with her moneypurse, especially with her still be a padawan. You're right, Obi-Wan is arguably weak.

the utter gall, this is why Obi-Wan doesn't get the respect he deserves