Karness Muur and Celeste Morne discusion thread...

[image=http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z274/EyeBashBadWriting/KarnessMuur.jpg]

How ancient was Muur, if the Old Sith Empire ran from 6,900 to 5,000? If Naga Sadow translated the Codex before 4,400 BBY and the talisman was regarded as 'ancient' to the Sith Lords of Sadow's era, then how strong in the Force was Muur to have staved off abomination for so long? Also, I wonder will he try to take over Vader, should Morne fall to the Sith's blade? We already know the Talisman makes it's way to Cade, so Vader somehow has re-bury it the Oubliette. Does Celeste make it to the Cade encounter, or will it be just the Talisman? I was impressed with how she battled Vader and the troops, especially after just waking up from a 40 millenia nap. So is she ends up being Cade's mom as somebody else suggested, how powerful is Cade as the son of two Jedi (not mention one had Skywalker blood)?



MODS, I couldn't find anything related to this, if I am wrong please redirect and lock.

 

I'm in two minds about this.

Part of me just wants Karness Muur to be an early Sith Lord from the Old Sith Empire. That is really the simplest thing and would be explained easily enough. He was this dude who decided to leave the Empire and carve his own kingdom, Dreypa opposed him and due to a chain of events we know little about Muur was defeatd and his Talisman lost.

There's a big part of me that wants to see that. Its easy. It makes sense.

But theres also a part of me that is just screaming for it to tie in with Revan discovering Malachor in the comics. For Muur to just be a member of the Old Sith Empire is perhaps a bit dull because it is just too obvious. If instead he was a member of the 'True Sith' and somehow tied in with Malachor that would perhaps present the opportunity in the comics to explore some new ideas and answer some new questions, plus possibly link in with the upcoming exploration of Andeddu in Legacy.

So... I'm torn. Old Sith Empire or Pre-Old Sith Empire? Hmmm...

 

For Muur to just be a member of the Old Sith Empire is perhaps a bit dull because it is just too obvious.

I completely agree, and I like the multiple tie-ins.
Revan, Malachor (maybe Muur visited and it was never recorded), true Sith(possible), Unknown regions (what happened to Dreypa?), did Revan ever know of the Talisman, or Dreypa, when did Revan first visit Malachor?...

Any way we slice it, Muur was a nice addition to the Talisman.

 

The True Sith don't exist!

;-)

That's what makes Revan's quest funny!

 

Old Sith Empire, ideally.

If he's a "True Sith", I'd have to wonder why he wasn't a "Darth" - since all the Malachor spawned Sith Lords took the title.

 

He doesn't look like a Pureblood Sith.

There's plenty of room between 6900 and 5000 BBY to fit him in so that seems like the simplist option.

Since he's a alchemist kind of guy and I got the idea from somewhere that the Exiles invented Sith Alchemy it would make little sense for him to be anything but a decendent of the Exiles, assuming I'm not getting confused.

 

Well... part of me is almost thinking...

[image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/a/a6/Pointyearedman.jpg]
[image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/7/77/AndeLeg.jpg]

...how can we tell what a corpse looked like before he was a corpse?

[image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/4/48/Darthandedduholocron.jpg]
[image=http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z274/EyeBashBadWriting/KarnessMuur.jpg]

They both have big heavy shoulder pads!

 

I like it.

 

Makes sense, but personally I have a theory of my own.

Muur was an early Sith Lord who became interested in creating Sithspawn, and as Naga Sadow read his codex he predates even him. As Arkania is supposed to be a former part of the old Sith Empire, and we know that there are two types of bloodlines within Arkanian society, one considered pure and the other not, and Muur himself looks like Jarael's type of offshoot.

So what if Muur became so interested in tampering with genetics (mirroring the Arkanian interest) that he created a new species from his people (the pureblooded Arkanians), creating unrest later on (perhaps Dreypa opposed him) and that resulted in a war between his tribe and the pureblooded Arkanians.

Then perhaps that is the reason why Jarael is alone.

 

If Krayt gets hold of the Muur Talisman, the Mon Cal public relations stunt will be rated 'G' compared to the hell he'd wreak with an infinite army. (and a little red devil version of Karness sitting on his spiked shoulder)

 

Hmm... I like that. It ties back in with the whole Adasca side plot and would connect to Jarael. That'd be pretty neat. Would make Vector feel much less out of place. I have always wondered about how Arkania was meant to have been a Sith planet too... so to explain that would be cool.

 

It says Muur was ancient even by Sith standards, so I'm thinking he's an Exile.

And the Muur = Andeddu thing could work. Regardless, I can't wait for Legacy's turn at Vector, and hope this guy's used more often afterwards.

 

I don't think that Andeddu and Karness Muur are the same, but I think that Muur could well come up during Wyyrlok's quest and thus lead to the Vector from the part of the New Sith Order, like Cade's current arc is doing for him now. So, Muur might be either a contemporary or a predecessor of Andeddu's.

 

You know what I just noticed yesterday when reading JJM's notes? Celeste's belt buckle on that other Sith in the very first issue of Vector. Yeah, I'm slow.

 

Thing is, Muur looks like a Sith-species half-breed. He looks like a post-Exiles Sith Lord.

 

I think he looks more like a quarter-breed, personally.

So... yeah. Basically I agree. I like Muur=Andeddu but I'm not sure how it would work if the spirit trapped in the talisman is all of Muur's spirit. There could be a holocron-gatekeeper type deal going on, though, I suppose.

 

But some pictures of him appear to have three fingures. Others appear to possibly have four fingers despite only three being visable but in others he clearly only has three. No other sith hybrid has three fingers that I know of.

Otherwise I would prefer to take the same line as you.

 

Why can't he be a Sith/Arkanian half-breed? No-one said all the Exiles were human.

 

It would be quite fitting for him to be a contemporary of Xoxaan's. One of the exiles and, perhaps a possible ally for Krayt (or already in league with him and thus a reason for Morrigan/Nyna/Celeste to be rid of him )

 

Any idea how strong is he?
Palpy,Revan,Vader level.
Or like Maul,Bandon,Ventress.

 

Are you seriously putting Bandon on Maul's level?

I would probably put him as weaker than Marka Ragnos but stronger than Ludo Kresh.

 

I am increasingly fascinated by the relationship of the Arkanians and the Sith, and possible links between Arkanian genetic science and the creation of Sithspawn through Sith alchemy.

I feel like there could be a whole secret history of Sith bioexperimentation which ties together everything from

* The Second Great Schism, especially XoXaan.
* All the numerous Arkanian-altered species (from the offshoots to the Quermians), possibly including issues with Jarael
* The Muur talisman and the Rakghouls
* Exar Kun's work
* The Great Hunt
* Darth Plagueis' midichlorian experiments (possibly linked to the birth of Anakin Skywalker)
* Byss. Palpatine's cloning facilities and all the scheming and plotting around that, plus his experiments like the chrysalide rancors and the Shadow Droids.
* The Reborn
* Darth Krayt's issues

It's something I'd like to see explored more cohesively.

 

I've mentioned on other threads about being suspicious of the parallels between Muur and Jarael as far as appearance goes. With the apparent significance of Jarael's ears I won't be all that surprised if it turns out Muur and Jarael are the same species, be it true blooded Arkanian or a particular variety of offshoot, with some form of direct tie-in to Muur's Sith faction.

In turn, possibly allowing Jarael to help Zayne in hunting down the Sith conspiracy that caused the Mandalorian Wars -- once the Covenant are out the way, I'd really like to see Zayne turn out to be a lost hero of the Mandalorian/Jedi Civil Wars. It'd kind of nerf the chances of KOTOR3 but I'm starting to lose any faith in ever getting a concluding tale for Revan and the Exile. If Zayne takes out the True Sith during the war itself I wouldn't really mind, it'd make Revan's quest an impossible one, but I'm not that bothered since if he didn't know the True Sith had already been slain he would just spend his life searching for answers, maybe doing random other good deed instead.

Either way, even if they don't go as far as to say Muur and the Arkanian Sith connection aren't the "True Sith" faction, I'd still like to see there be a faction of some sort at least.

 

,,Are you seriously putting Bandon on Maul's level?

I would probably put him as weaker than Marka Ragnos but stronger than Ludo Kresh.,,
In Dt Vector 2 Vader saw something like trading on master for another,is it because of the Talisman,or because of Karness is stronger than Vader,but i doubt that?