Kenobi as a Gary Stu

I have read alot of threads where people talk about how Obi-wan Kenob is Gary Stu. He seems to have outmatched Anakin in alot of physical feats. Things of that matter. Pretty much wanted to discuss whether or not you think Kenobi is a Gary Stu and whether his movie character matches up with his EU character. Discuss.

I will give my opinion when I hear a couple of yours.

 

If I knew what the heck you were talking about, I might give an answer. As it is... no clue.

 

A Gary Stu is a seemingly perfect character with no flaws. Pretty much a male Mary Stu. Does that adress your confusion?

 

Aside from losing to Dooku twice, Kenobi TOTALLY outperformed mister 20,000.
And I'd even venture to suggest that given Obi-Wan's TPM exploits, his defeat in AOTC was rather contrived. He suffered two minor 'Shiims' and was down for the count?

If anything, that was done to make Dooku look more powerful than he actually was.

Now that I've gotten that off my chest, if you list their Force exploits side by side then you'll see that Kenobi clearly did more than the saga's poster boy. Something I just thought of: Why didn't Vader use the "TPM's force-sprint" to rush up the lava bank to meet Kenobi head-on? When I get back from lunch I'll sit down and put a list together. I can't find my old one, so I'll do it again.

 

I think that normal jedi are still capable of preforming extraordinary feats. Obi-wan may not have had the highest force potential bit he was smart and used his head. Yes they may have done him in a little to much though.

Some points like Obi-wan pulling himself up by his fingertips was a little overrated I think that he could have defeated Maul a different way. However GL was trying to make a point. When I read the novelization Obi-wan had a sort of um epiphany. He said that he had been trying all that time instead of DOING like Yoda taught him to. That is when I think Obi-wan might have become one in the force when he killed Maul. Sort of like Darsha Assant I guess...

Or he could have just used Force Valor in the intense duel and channaled all his energy into his finger tips....

I think that Obi-wan was bested by Dooku because he was fighting someone that also relied on his smarts and head instead of fighting skills.

Anakin being bested by Obi-wan on Mustafar... That's a good point but Obi-wan was fully prepared to take Anakin out. Besides Anakin was to fully hardy and emotionally challanged for him to think about what he was doing. Maul on the other hand did not expect Obi-wan to pull a fast one.

All in all I think that Obi may have been interpreted as a little to powerful but there is a logical explanation for everything.

 

Also about Obi-wan being easily bested by Count Dooku I think there are two points for that. Number one he was physically exausted from his droid fight. Number 2 Obi-wan simply may have been lacking in endurance at that time. I really don't know. I think that Anakin faced the same problem after he was electorcuted but he had the endurance to get back up again and fight I guess.

 

Obi-Wan is hardly a Gary Stu. He's explicitly stated to be unable to even hold his own against Palpatine, he's defeated twice by Dooku, only defeated Maul through the Sith Lord's over-confidence, and was unable to defeat Vader when they met again on the Death Star. He also doesn't fit Gary Stus tendency to know everything given that he's wrong about Vader's ability to be redeemed and wrong about Anakin falling.

It's simply that Dooku's style is one that Obi-Wan's is nearly useless against.

 

YEah well I kind of a gree with Skywalker. Kenobi wouldn't stand a chance against Sidious. Though it is obvious that Kenobi was stalling for Luke. Kenobi would not have lost so easily. He turned off his lightsaber for God's sake! That is what I call losing-cause-you-turned-off-your-lightsaber-not-cause-you-suck-at-dueling.

 

Obi Wan is perfect. His only flaw? Having to be beaten by Dooku to make Dooku and Anakin look more powerful.

Obi Wan could go head on with Maul as a padawan and win, and then defeat Darth Vader - who killed Dooku.

GET YOUR STORY STRAIGHT LUCAS!

Obi Wan is BA.

 

Oh, it was certainly Kenobi's choice. However, my take on the duel is that while Ben could probably deflect Vader's blows all day, he couldn't get a hit on Vader.

 

Obi Wan is perfect. His only flaw? Having to be beaten by Dooku to make Dooku and Anakin look more powerful.

Obi Wan could go head on with Maul as a padawan and win, and then defeat Darth Vader - who killed Dooku.

GET YOUR STORY STRAIGHT LUCAS!

Obi Wan is BA.


Well it's common knowledge that Obi-wan defeated Anakin because Anakin was impateint and foolish when he jumped at Obi-wan.

Oh, it was certainly Kenobi's choice. However, my take on the duel is that while Ben could probably deflect Vader's blows all day, he couldn't get a hit on Vader.


I definately agree. Vader made some drastic changes to his fighting style after his encounter with Obi-wan.

 

Considering that Obi-Wan's lone student turned to the Dark Side, massacred the Jedi Order, and nearly became the most powerful Sith Lord ever...yeah, definite Gary Stu...

 

This.

 

I never thought of Kenobi as a Gary Stu at all, but the father-figure, mentor or instructor who keeps you in line. I always thought of Luke and Anakin as the ultimate Gary Stu's.

 

Not so! Luke and Anakin were always the flawed characters. Anankin was extremely flawed killing childlren, choking his pregant wife ect ect. Anakin was definately fallible.

Luke same thing he was kind of head strong and reckless.

Obi-wan however overcomes impossible odds often. Things that anakin did nto do. Atleast that is an argument used by OBW haters.

 

It's his failures as a teacher that more or less indirectly lead to the Empire. How is that being perfect?

Plus he's cocky, headstrong, and defiant in TPM, gets freaking captured and then gets his butt handed to him in AOTC, and then gets punked in ROTS.


Later on, he's caught blatantly trying to con Luke into killing his father.



....yeah, perfect example.

 

I don't mean Gary Stu as in the ultimate badass who, with luck and wit, always comes out on top like James Bond or Indiana Jones. But Gary Stu like a mirror of the creator. I've heard that Luke wasn't based on Lucas as a young man, but Harrison Ford in the DVD interviews states that he believes that he, indeed, was. Luke is the young man stuck in the boonies, who dreams of adventure away from home and making a name for himself, etc. Anakin is the same way, but he makes the wrong decisions.

Many of us have grown up as "Luke", and see all the "Anakins" around us who end up in jail, in the Earth, strung out on heroin, or even just supporting a few baby-mamma's. It's always the Yoda or Obi-Wan who guides us through those decisions, so I always thought of Luke as the original Gary Stu.

 

Lucas may claim Luke wasn't based on him(though I'm not sure he's contested the idea) but, given that Luke was apparently his nickname in high school, Lucas is Luke S., and one of the original pieces of concept art depicts Luke as looking similar to GL, I think it's fairly clear that there is some of a young George Lucas in Luke Skywalker.

 

Obi-Wan is hardly a Gary Stu for the simple reason of how he is introduced in the OT, as an old man with many secrets and many regrets.

I hardly say the Obi-Wan I saw on Dagobah in ROTJ and later on Mustafar in ROTS is a Gary Stu.

He's my man. Yes, I'm an Obi lover.

 

Obi-Wan, Gary Stu? No, actually Anakin fits the description much better though he doesn't 100% encompass it either, but much more closely than Obi-Wan.

 

I don't think Obi-wan could be considered a Gary Stu. All of the Star wars Characters fit into Mythological archetypes. Lucas has stated on numerous occasions that the Work of Joseph Campbell is the biggest influence on his films. In the OT Obi-wan is the old wizard who starts the hero on his journey.I can't think of a mythological archetype to fit Obi-wan in the PT other then Odysseus/Ulysses. Anakin like Achilles is the most skilled warrior in the world but that doesn't save him because he lets his anger get the better of him. Anakin acts first thinks later. Obi-wan is like the King of Ithaca because he thinks first then acts.

 

A very good article on the Mary/Gary/Larry Sue/Stu 'trope'.

 

All in all I think that many of us agree that Obi-wan isn't a Gary Stu.

I mean he does have his faults and shortcomings, he botched up when training the most emotionally charged and erratic padawan in existence... SO yeah....

 

Based on how he compares to Anakin, no.

Anakin/Vader looks poor in the movies and EU compared to other big characters. The other Sith Lords, Luke, Starkiller etc.

 

As the helmeted Vader readily admits on the DS in ANH to Kenobi, Obi-Wan was the master the last time they met. This snippet of OT dialog is important, but not the whole story.

Yes, Kenobi taught Anakin, knew his apprentice's strengths and weaknesses. And in training, Obi-Wan avoided the former and exploited the latter, just as he wisely did during the duel on Mustafar when his very own life, and the life of Padme and the twins, was on the line.

But this does not make Kenobi perfect -- just intelligent. As noted above, Kenobi definitely had his troubles, mostly with Dooku, but the non-Jedi Jango Fett was quite the formidable foe for him as well.

And were Kenobi the absolutely perfect Jedi master, Anakin would never have turned to the dark side.

My 2-cents.