Kyle Katarn: The Force's best student

Now Kyle Katarn may not be the best ever student of the Force, but he sure as hell can learn quick. Now a common misunderstanding is that Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight happens over a period of a few days. Most likely a few weeks, considering hyperspace travel can be anywhere from a few days to a week or so. I guess that this would have given Kyle time to meditate and so forth. But the fact remains, in a time that may be even shorter than Luke skywalker's training in ESB, Kyle katarn was able to take down 7 Dark Jedi, each more powerfull than the next.

I have thought of a few reasons why he could become so powerfull in that amount of time:

1. He was destined to become that powerfull by prophecy to free the Jedi spirits trapped at rusaan(sp?).

2. The game takes place over a period much longer than I thought, maybe even months instead of weeks.

3. Its a game, It wouldnt be fun if you weren't able to kick butt.

4. Jerec and his goons were not really all that powerfull, most, excluding Jerec and Sariss, were just some guys with a lightsabers and the force to enhance their abilities. Kinda like Mara Jade?

My bet is that the prophecy had much to do with it, and the only one who was of any signifigant power,-in comparison to a Sith or real Jedi that is-, was Jerec. And the rest were not that much stronger than kyle himself.

Any thoughts? And can anyone tell me if the prophecy for kyle to free the spirits trapped at the Valley of the Jedi included the Sith as well as Jedi?

-Jabba out

 

Something else to point out, Kyle wasnt all that powerfull either. (Now hold on fanboys, don't kill me, I'll explain this borderline blasphemy. )

His RPG stats show him at:

Scoundrel 5/Soldier 6/Jedi Guardian 1

And his Force skills and feats?

Force skills:
Battle mind +8, enhance ability +11

Force Feats: Control

 

"1. He was destined to become that powerfull by prophecy to free the Jedi spirits trapped at rusaan(sp?)."

According to the radio drama, and novel that is true. Luke states that he can't interfere with the prophecy because if he did, he would fail. It is Kyle alone that is destined to fulfill the prophecy.

"2. The game takes place over a period much longer than I thought, maybe even months instead of weeks."

The novels pegged the story as having happened over the course of 2-3 weeks, IIRC.

According to the novel, Kyle was taught fencing arts in the academy so that gave him a slight edge, once he got a lightsaber. He was also given pointers by Qu Rahn's ghost. Also according to the novel, he also had all the memories and fighting styles of his alterego, "Tal".

"Any thoughts? And can anyone tell me if the prophecy for kyle to free the spirits trapped at the Valley of the Jedi included the Sith as well as Jedi?"

It included everyone, including the spirits. In novel and game you can see Jerec's spirit arise up to join the rest of the spirits as well.

However according to POTJsb not all of the spirits left to join the other spirits. Some chose to stay around and haunt ruusan.

As for his rpg stats, the thing about them is they were created first online for that period of time just before Jedi Outcast, when Kyle let his powers atrophy. They were never updated. They don't correctly match up to the abilities Kyle has in the Jedi Knight novels, or the games, nor when he was a master. Many of the abilities are missing. If those abilities are figured in, it would raise his rpg levels signifigantly.

The problem with rpg stats is that they don't usually accurately cover all the variables of characters given in stories (for instance Leia's stats don't cover every language she knows). LFL is quick to point out that "roleplaying games ascribe certain characteristics to characters and events in order to make them playable."-starwars.com.

 

Obviously Kyle was inherently strong in the Force, he had the help of a Jedi's ghost, and he had his experience as an elite commando/mercenary. I'd also like to point out that aside from Sarris, Boc, and Jerec, all the others were able to be killed with blasters (I did manage to kill Boc with 900 repeater rounds once though)

Kyle's obviously not perfect though, his lack of formalized training and his lack of participation with Luke and the Academy lead to his fall to the Dark Side, from which he's saved by Mara.

So is Kyle perfect? No, of course not. There is no 'best' student. Is he powerful? Yes, of course. Pretty much anyone who goes through the Valley is.

 

Luke had little formal training, as well. It's doubtful that Luke, the guy who took down Darth Vader, would have failed against Jerec, but he was busy -- correct me if I'm wrong, but at the time of Jedi Knight, he's a General in the Alliance. That encompasses not only a military command, but loads of paperwork.

You're right about there being no "best" student of the Force, since no one knows what the Force uses as a measuring stick, or if it even has one. But Kyle is quite obviously one of the most powerful Jedi ever.

 

It should probably be noted that in the Dark Side ending to Jedi Academy, he literally beats you up, ripping your saber from your hands, trapping you in a headlock, gut punching you, picking you up and tossing you etc.

Obviously, if you win, it's because Kyle couldn't bring himself to strike you down, even though he does if you die.

 

hm.. kinda like in KOTOR when you can levitate yourself and about 9 chairs and get uber force moves after about 20 seconds minutes of loading time?

 

RebelScum, the moves you get as a level 1 jedi are certainly not "uber"; you get more abilities the first mission of Jedi Academy than you do for much of Dantooine in KotOR. And it took Revan weeks of training to do those basic force moves and the levitation (which was only 4 things: a datapad, two chairs, and revan.)

 

Kyle+ weeks of training in the Force, years of fencing training, and an alter ego that knows the entire Jedi arts at Knight level= beating some sorry wannabe who thought he was Starhommed Ali and some henchmen.

Luke+ weeks of training in the Force= beating the Dark Lord of the Sith, Boba Fett, a human replica droid with one punch, and some henchmen galore to boot, and single handedly restoring the Jedi order and turning the tides towards the salvation of the galaxy about six times...

I'm leaning towards Luke being the best student of the Force, but that's just me and my crazy ideas...

 

Suzuki Akira:
I'm leaning towards Luke being the best student of the Force, but that's just me and my crazy ideas...

I'm with you, SA! And your list just scratched the surface of the many accomplishments of Luke Skywalker!

 

I have to agree, Kyle is good but Luke is better.

However, apparently Anakin Skywalker was the greatest... If he hadn't gone to the darkside he could have been even greater.

 

Darnit. I wasnt trying to convey that Kyle was better than Luke or the absolute best student of the Force. Read my post, I said:

Now Kyle Katarn may not be the best ever student of the Force, but he sure as hell can learn quick.

It was more of a catch phrase type thing. Even in my post I doubted and wondered how Kyle could progress so rapidly. lets try to actually read and find out what my post was really about instead of basing your responses off of my title okay?

EDIT: I was too harsh, apologies.

EDIT2: fixed language.

 

There are no definitive Force strengths given for any character. We really only have four levels, powerful, strong, sensitive, and blind.

 

Luke+ weeks of training in the Force= beating the Dark Lord of the Sith, Boba Fett, a human replica droid with one punch, and some henchmen galore to boot, and single handedly restoring the Jedi order and turning the tides towards the salvation of the galaxy about six times...

Luke didn't defeat Boba Fett. Han did and it was an accident. He didn't defeat Vader. In truth he got his butt kicked in ESB but landed some lucky shots. In ROTJ Vader was holding back and Luke raged when he was fighting Vader then as well. That's how he got the upper hand. That was his final test after he cut off Vader's hand. To give in fully or fight it and stay on the light. He stayed on the light and then got fried by Palpy. It was Vader that destroyed Paply. It was Luke along with Leia and the unborn Anakin that got rid of the first reborn emperor. Luke beating him in a lightsaber duel wasn't enought to get it down and in the very end it was Han with a well place blaster bolt that took him out for good. It took a group of Jedi to bring back Luke and drive out Exar Kun.

He didn't single handly restore the Jedi order. First he had to be given permission, a place to have the academy. Without support from the NR he would have failed before he even started. He trained students who in turned helped him learn as well. He knew he had a lot to learn and wanted everyone, including himself to learn from each other. After that he and his first batch of students went on to train others themselves. How long was Luke actually in the academy training people or looking for people. I'm certain others like Toinne(sp?), Kam, etc where doing all of that or at least majority of that. I'm sure Luke did his fair share as well when he wasn't out on missions helping the NR with Leia and Han.

Luke's a great Jedi but you can not make the claim that he has done anything single handedly. Everything he has done has been apart of a team or had help from others. I'm not putting Kyle ahead of him but don't try to make it seem he is greater then he is by ignoring what others have done along side of him.

 

It should ALSO be noted that Luke was defeated by Dessaan who was defeated by Kyle.

 

But the same could be said for Vader. He went toe to toe with Boba Fett and it basically ended in a draw. Yet he's supposed to be the greatest Jedi ever.

 

When did Vader ever fight Boba Fett?

 

In Enemy of the Empire.

Desann didn't defeat Luke. They clashed for mere moments in the Cairn loading facility in the Imperial Lenico Base. In a hurry to get out, with the facility security breached, the Chistori simply distracted Luke to get aboard.

What I don't understand is the scene afterwards---how Luke and Katarn could talk even briefly over comlink whilst the Doomgiver is in hyperspace!!

 

The thing is though, Desann was owning luke in that entire scene. Not something I particularlly like, but thats what happened.

 

But now that I think about it, Dessaan went through the Valley, and so did Kyle.

There's a bunch of stuff wrong with Jedi Outcast. First, how is Mon Mothma still in the government after JAT? Why didn't Desann stay in the Valley and become an invincible Force wielder and THEN infuse his troops with the power of the Force? How did Desann, who is now stronger in the Force, manage to escape Luke's detection, allowing him to suprise Luke and beat him? Why is Lando still in charge of Cloud City? Why are they mining Cortosis at Bespin? Why attack the Jedi Academy....AGAIN!?

 

Katarn and Ors had previous business relations with Mothma. Just because she holoed them as the game begins, and later briefed them in person, means she's still the galactic leader.

She just met with them. That's all.

 

Luke+ weeks of training in the Force

Luke actually had four years of training before he became a Jedi.

 

"Just because she holoed them as the game begins, and later briefed them in person, means she's still the galactic leader."

According to the prologue fiction(it exists in a folder on the cd, and the JO website) I think it says Mon Mothma was working with republic intelligence. Which is interesting considering she worked with rebel intelligence in dark forces, and MOTS as well.

 

Desann? Owning Luke?

I'd have to watch the cutscene again, but that didn't happen. Luke lifted Force-only-knows how many metric tons of durasteel to get out of that, something we never see Desann do. If he could do that, he'd be able to survive you knocking a pillar on his head.

Desann = Pwned.

 

MOTS was concurrent with Dark Empire, wasn't it? Mothma was still top dog. Most likely just following the traditions and familiarity of the past Katarn games: of having him liaise with her.