Lit Kyp Durron, The most underused and poorly written character of the EU?

Kyp to me is such an interesting character, his relationship with Han is one of the most underused themes in the EU. I would have loved to have seen a solo novel with Han and him post-Sun Crusher exploring his place in the galaxy. In NJO he could have and should have been an extremely well written contrast to Jacen\Luke's philosophy of minding their own business but instead the authors constantly revert to the old idea of "Luke Skywalker is always right no matter what" and have him manipulate Jaina. In fact I would have loved to see him become the Grandmaster post NJO and Luke retiring. It would have provided a nice switch-up in leadership

 

Poorly written in many cases, yes. His relationship with Han was well-explored in Greg Keyes' Edge of Victory books, especially when he was talking to Jaina about how much respect he had for Han. I think it was part of his arc, having him as a total jerk who wasn't liked by anyone, only to become a well-respected peer amongst the Jedi and even a Council member later on. If he'd been the super-wise Jedi from the start, he'd have been the world's biggest Gary Stu. I mean, as powerful as Luke, and wise to match? No, thank you, give me some flaws first. Even in FOTJ he had a fiery temper. One thing I find funny is when he sensed Jacen lose his connection to the Force he assumed it meant Jacen was dead so he thought "that's too bad" and consoled Han and Leia, but then he heard Anakin was the dead one and he thought to himself, Oh no! I could've lived with Jacen's death, but not Anakin! Bet he wasn't thinking that after Jacen killed Onimi...

 

That's always confused me, how powerful is Kyp exactly?

 

Definitely an ass, and his past relationship with Han is one of the reasons he's even worse in NJO. However, I do think he managed to present a contrasting view to Luke's view on the Jedi's role in the Vong War, that had decent points. It was just often overshadowed by his recklessness, and in the eyes of the fans the same thing happened to Luke's viewpoint. It was certainly never presented as "Luke Skywalker is the only one in the right".

In terms of him being a Grandmaster however, no. Just no.

 

Why not? Its better than the Skywalker\Solo clan ruling it for the next hundred years

 

I don't care for the Grandmaster concept itself, it was only required due to author artifice on Dark Nest. There was nothing there that required the Jedi Masters to be acting like brawling kids! Then again, given that later one of them grts killed in a similar dispute....

 

Because his character didn't have the potential to be one. I agree i'd rather not see a single family lead the Order over and over, but that doesn't make Kyp a good choice. The best choice is the best person suited for the job. Sadly, Anakin and Jacen were the two with the most potential to become one. None of the other Masters ever seemed like they'd make a great choice in my mind.

And as Jedi Ben pointed out, the concept really came around because the other Masters couldn't work together as a cohesive unit, Kyp included in that group.

 

While Kyp was an ass, he was an interesting ass. Unlike drink the Skywalker cool-aid Kyp we have now. I liked how passionately he made me dislike him and still partly agree with him.

I think he was an interesting character that (Like most characters) was wasted.

 

I think this quote sums up Kyp's character best:

"No change comes without conflict. Perhaps my destiny is to be the irritant that forces the discussion, the blister that lets you know your boots don't fit."
---Kyp Durron

 

Yes, I really liked Kyp in the first half of the NJO. I thought he was a good counterpoint to Luke's opinion.

He is underused and has been nothing more than a name drop for a long time now, which sucks.

 

Just bear in mind that current Kyp isn't Kyp, which is why there is a split of people who like him and people who don't.

His characterization was pretty self-explanatory through Simple Tricks (which is, of course, awesome) and then the NJO happened and they needed a Jedi character to lead the "rogue, pirate-hunting Jedi group" and picked him, somewhat arbitrarily as I recall.

So the attempts to reconcile the two halves of the personality split -- though the latter portion (NJO-onwards) is now a lengthier period of time -- is usually where problems arise.

 

Darksaber Kyp seems a bit different from Simple Tricks Kyp- still pretty aggressive, still hates Daala.

 

Everyone hates Daala. Though yeah Simple Tricks is awesome, really sad we never got the other Star Lady short stories that were planned.

 

Why were there no Kyp/Daala interactions in FotJ?!

 

It seams that Kyp is one of those characters that the people is polarised about how the authors threat them.

I have not read much of the material with him so I have to ask: how is his character development (or lack of it) through the EU?

 

Because then they'd have to reference how Daala used to be a crazy Imp admiral who tortured Han, would have used superweapons if the Sun Crusher hadn't been stolen and was mostly a joke until they made her Chief of State. FotJ's plot was already full of holes, its not like they cared about continuity when the quality was already abysmal (a series that starts out with Daala exiling Luke Skywalker off Coruscant sets a new low in EU Lit).

While I'm not happy with how they characterized Kyp in the NJO, at least he was a prominent character, even if only as the troublemaker counterpart to Luke's much less confrontational approach to the war. It clashes with the very good Simple Tricks characterization, but while I don't like the direction, based on how Kyp was in JAT and Darksaber, I can see how the NJO version could have come about. The arrogance and pride was really annoying (Kyp's Dozen and all that), but there were plenty of more annoying things in NJO.

As for why they chose Kyp to be the "radical" Jedi, probably just convenience. He had a bit of EU history, he was very powerful (possibly more raw power than Luke Skywalker, which a scene in LotF later addressed), and was young enough to be out there fighting.

Post-NJO it has gotten even worse since Kyp has mostly just faded into every generic Jedi Council meeting. In LotF he was still somewhat memorable (like at one point he grew his hair long because his girlfriend liked it or something like that?). But by FotJ, Kyp was just part of the Jedi crowd that opposed Kenth's appeasement strategy (which was basically the entire NJO aside from Kenth). And of course, no real clashes between him and Daala (although Kyp blowing Carida is brought up again of course, but not much else from the JAT trilogy).

At least NJO occasionally acknowledged his friendship with Han- like how odd his relationship with Jaina occasionally was before it fortunately settled down into mentor-student, and going with Han on that one mission in TUF.

Ideally I wouldn't have minded Kyp as a senior Jedi shortly before the Vong War, being one of the first new Knights, perhaps as a Jedi field leader or mentor figure for the Solo kids (such as Corran occasionally was), while Luke hung back and coordinated Jedi efforts like Yoda did... but then that would require a coordinated Jedi effort early on in the Vong War. The Jedi only really pull together by SbS at the Eclipse base.

 

Kyp was fun in the Bantam books and the NJO books and in the Allston books of LOTF but there was nothing noteworthy for any of the other books after NJO.
I'd love to see a Jaina and Kyp teamup again anytime or Anakin and Kyp before SBS.

 

Kyp Durron is a sue, but one of many abominable sues in the EU. He turned to the dark side, killed his own brother, destroyed planets with a super weapon, suffered no negative consequences whatsoever for it, survived a black hole miraculously, and all of his evil actions are conveniently blamed on Exar Kun.

I really wish the EU would have more characters like Biggs Darklighter.
Just regular humans, that aren't overpowered, and have meaningful deaths that aren't over-the-top or ridiculous but believable.

 

Kyp not being punished for the Sun Crusher incident will forever be a sore point for me.

 

He should've at least been quarantined on Yavin IV so he could learn, but not leave.

 

You do all realise that this collective attitude is, in effect, why Jacen had to die, don't you?

For all we say we want characters redeemed and forgiven, when it actually happens? Nope we don't, we want ' em dead and we want 'em dead NOW!

People tend to latch onto Corran's interpretation of the JAT events - this is before he almost loses his soul to the dark side quite willingly remember - but the fact is, we have in text narration that Kyp was possessed. It would be interesting to see what Corran's view of those same events is after his own ordeals in IJ.

Along with the inclination to forsake forgiveness in recent years, there is a scepticism towards the mystical elements of SW, that agency can never be compromised or controlled despite there being quite a few stories of darksiders doing precisely that. Then again, the notion of the dark side, as something infernal, has also been played down despite darksiders going from normal to BBQ-ing baby rabbits whilst alive in less than 60 seconds after falling.

 

Nope. There's a big difference between being redeemed, and being redeemed and let off scott free for the actions you took during your fall. And no one here's said anything about wanting Kyp dead so you're misunderstanding us.

 

Corran never said "Kyp wasn't possessed" - what he said in effect was:

"Kun wasn't controlling Kyp, only influencing him- otherwise he'd have made Kyp kill Luke instead of having to use monsters, invade Streen's dreams, etc."

 

Hmm, told Jaina Solo that DJ?

I think that's the issue that people do think that is exactly what is going on, if you come back from the dark side, then that's it and nobody does ask any questions. At the same time, people aren't willing to accept the idea that by the dark side's compromising of agency, so too is responsibility. Now somewhere in here is what the individual was and wasn't responsible for, but untangling it is no easy matter, you could liken it to tracking assets in a fraud case!

(There's a lot of discussion for instance around psychopathy and whether or not they can be deemed as responsible agents that might be applicable here too.)

But this is complex and hard to navigate territory. Much easier to opt for redemption by death - Vader, Ulic Qel Droma, Daeshara'Cor and so on. Hence the idea of Jacen Solo falling to the dark side, seeing nothing wrong with it and having to get killed. Forgiven? Would you have bought into and accepted that idea? Would Jacen have ever accepted he had done things to be forgiven for?

Then there's the other problem - the book basically posits that being aged by Kun's possession was a consequence, with destroying the Sun Crusher AND destroying the Death Star prototype as Kyp's act of atonement! That's the direction taken and it all likely stems from Vader being forgiven, if Vader can get forgiven with his track record, then so can everyone else right? But I really do recommend you read Simple Tricks, as it's the one story that actually tries to address this stuff head on and it does a pretty good job.

My own take? I'm pretty much with Bel Iblis, Kyp destroyed a whole load of Imperial planets, with an Imperial superweapon, it's one hell of a karmic kickback.