Let's talk about "I sense Lord Vader is in danger"

"Tell Captain Cargie to prepare my shuttle for immediate take off...I sense Lord Vader is in danger..."


I always thought this interesting and ambigous. Sidious's turn of phrase after dueling Yoda, said relatively calmly, but I feel I do not completely understand it. That is why I am turning to my fellow SW experts.

In the RotS novel, it says Palpatine felt that Vader was in mortal danger. And that he ran off to save Vader in a vigor that surprised himself. We don't see any of that in the film itself, indeed, I believe it's downplayed a bit more. He does say he needs his shuttle for immediate take off, but there's no running or anything. So here we go:

1. Is there a connection between Palpatine's "...I sense Lord Vader is in danger..." and Obiwan's "I sense a trap."? Both use the same phrasing, I see nothing unique in that so much, only that Obiwan and he sense something abstract, a trap and danger. It isn't like "I sense Count Dooku." Is this an example of a relatively underated Force power, sensing abstraction? Further how deep are these remarks? Obiwan's "I sense a trap", taken literally, is Dooku's trap to engage them in a duel. But could he be unknowingly referencing Palpatine's trap for Anakin into Sithdom? How about the "I sense Lord Vader is in danger", could you argue that he felt something coming that would rob Vader's ability to to fully commit himself to the Sith? Hence, the persona of Vader being threatened?

2. What did Palpatine sense, exactly? Again the novel says simply mortal danger, but that's open ended. Was Palpatine unsure of the threat? Did he think it was a Jedi or simply the lava? Remember he sent Vader to wipe out the Seps, nothing dangerous at all. Would a simple deviation from the plan send a pang through the Force?

3. How certain was Palpatine of the threat to Vader? He ran off quickly, but how set in stone was the danger? I have to assume that Palpatine wouldn't have run off if this sense was unclear, it must have been very clear. Vader needed his help or he was going to die. Was at that momment the source of worry? Right after he says that Anakin and Obiwan are caught on the arm, floating down the lava river. By the time Vader was telling Obiwan it was the end for him, was the sense gone of mortal danger? Or was Vader screwed from the point Palpatine first sensed it?

4. What does Vader feel/know? Palpatine is sensing something light years away. Never does Vader's outward appearence deviate from confidence and focus. Is Vader feeling anything in the Force during the duel?

 

This also raises another question: why didn't he do this for Darth Maul?

I mean, in a film like TPM, I hardly think a line like "I sense my apprentice Darth Maul may or may not get caught in nonsensical hallway of random forcefields before being cut in half like a retard" would've been out of place.

 

Palpatine only sensed Vader's peril because Lucas had to cook up something halfway believable... for rescuing him. IMO, those lines were nothing more than a plot device. Heck, Vader couldn't sense Kenobi 50 yards away, and Palp's knows Vader is about to die from a couple of parcecs away? One parcec equals 19 TRILLION miles... See the plot hole forming?

Good call on Maul, and I wonder if he sensed Lord Tyranus' demise as well.

 

1. Palpatine always boated that he could foresee things. This was one of those times when he foresaw something, but it wasn't exactly clear what it was. But whatever it was, it was bad- something was going to happen to Vader. So Sidious ran off.

2. By the time Yoda was defeated, it was clear to Sidious that another Jedi must have been sent to defeat Vader. The danger Sidious sensed was that something was a threat to Vader, something as powerful as him.

3. That's unclear. I personally believe that Sidious sensed the future of Vader' s immolation. The arm was not much of a danger, as Vader displayed by simply running and jumping off of it.

4. Anakin/Vader was always arrogant. Either he sensed the danger and ignored it, or he thought it might have been a danger to Sidious, the man who he could care less about.

 

There's sort of a connection. Obi-wan sensed danger all around them and it's not because of the battle outside. But something deep down within the Force was telling him that this was a trap. It's the will of the Force, speaking to him just as Qui-gon said it does. In the matter of Palpatine sensing Anakin's in danger, he senses the duel on Mustafar and Anakin's frustrations. He doesn't know that Anakin will lose his limbs, but he's concerned that he might lose his life.

In the novelization and a deleted line, he know's it is Obi-wan. That he had survived Utapau and is now on Mustafar, somehow. I believe that he sensed Vader's frustrations and emotional state which probably translated as he's being attacked. He knows that Vader took out the Separatists, so that means that someone else is there.

Going off the novelization, he knew that something was up with Vader from the outset. But Yoda was barring him from leaving. Afterwards, he senses it again and this time he can go. Going by the film alone, it looks as if he didn't sense it until after Yoda took off. The Grand Master earlier said that his faith in Vader is misplaced. He probably was wondering what Yoda was going on about and when he had a chance to focus, he realized that he was in danger.

As I said, it's emotions that he feels like Yoda had felt three years earlier. Or it could be something as simple as a grave disturbence in the Force, which he realized had to do with Aankin.

 

Have you seen the fight?

Darth Maul was in control against Qui-Gon and Obi-wan the entire time and there was no indication that he was going to lose, hence why PalpSidious didn't sense that Maul was in any danger. The miraculous "Obi-wan jumping-out-of-pit and grabbing Qui-Gon's saber" incident happened so fast that there wasn't time for anyone especially PalpSidious to react and as for Anakin, he's supposed to be the "most powerful Jedi" ever and he can't even defeat his own mentor which is where the "I sense Lord Vader is in danger" comes in.

 

You expect Sidious to travel to Naboo and jump into the duel in the power generator to risk the Sith's secret plot and his own existence being revealed to the Jedi to save one apprentice who should have been able to take out a Jedi Padawan? Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, the Chosen one was so much more valuable than just another Sith apprentice.

I also got the sense that since Anakin is so connected to the force by his high midiclorian count that other people really connected to the force more than anyone else like Yoda and Sidious would in a way sense his emotions and state more since Anakin is in a way 'a part of the force.' Remember throughout the PT, Yoda is always sensing when Anakin is in terrible pain or when he is troubled and he tells Sidious he may have misplaced his faith in his apprentice because Yoda probably sensed Vader's danger as well.

It's a matter of Anakin being a very strong conduit in the force and sage in depth masters like Yoda and Palpatine can sense the ripples in the force, the chosen one creates in times of great emotion or rage since emotions are so tied into the machinations of the force.

 

Maul is also significantly more replaceable than Darth Vader with his potential realized would be.

 

By all accounts, Yoda should have sensed that the galaxy was in trouble while he was sitting in Palpatine's office. Yoda can smell a drop of Anakin's emotional blood across the Ocean called OuterSpace... yet he can't smell five gallons of bloody-Sithiness that is sitting right under his nose? Nope, I don't buy it.

And if Yoda was so intertwined with Skywalker via the Force then he would have known that Anakin killed Tuskens, had been married, and that Vader wasn't dead. Some connection.

Sidious telling M.A. to get his shuttle ready was nothing more than Lucas moving it along.

 

You see, Anakin had more midiclorians than any other being in the Galaxy. Distance and time do not matter or figure when it comes to the force. Emotions are a greater factor in touching into the force, thus Anakin's 'blood' and danger would be sensed by the most powerful of force users.

Palpatine was a master of the dark side and the Sith had trained for a thousand years in secrecy and concealing their presence in the force. The Jedi were blinded so much by their dogma and traditions that Yoda could not sense the Sith in Palpatine. Also as Palpatine says 'Good is a point of view'. Since ROTS, good and evil are not so clear in Star Wars. Palpatine's goals were eerily similar to the Jedi. He wanted to bring peace and order to the galaxy. They only differ on their methods. Thus if Yoda looked into Palpatine's mind or heart he would sense he had the same goals as the Jedi and the Republic. Remember, the Jedi of the PT were too focused on the unifying force. They focused too much on the future, than on the presence. Qui Gon probally would have sensed Palpatine earlier. Yoda and Mace only began to unravel Palpatine's true identity when the Clone Wars flourished through the galaxy.

Oh and Yoda did sense Anakin killing the tuskens "Something terrible has happened", he knew Anakin loved Padme "Search your feelings, Obi Wan and find him you will" and he probably knew Vader was still alive. What proof do we have that he didn't? or maybe he thought he was dead because 'Anakin' died in a way, and Vader was fully born.

You have to understand Anakin is on a completely different level than any other force user. When he taps into the force, the most attuned and immersed masters would be able to feel a ripple of it. This is why they never sensed him before he was found. He never consciousnessly tapped into the force before he met Qui Gon. Same goes for Luke and Leia. The reason nobody sensed they were the children of the chosen one was because they never used the force. Probably why they waited till they were adults to train one of them and why they trained one at a time. They never sensed Leia and Palpatine only sensed Luke when he started using the force in ESB: "There is a great disturbance in the force."

Sidious was telling M.A to move it because he was about to lose his most powerful and valuable apprentice. You can't use the redundant 'because the script said so' criticism because that's the whole point of an entire film. To tell a story. If you don't want to suspend your belief, don't but then you won't enjoy the film as much as the people who like to suspend their belief when watching a fantasy film which is the point of one. Of course the script is the reason why Palpatine sensed Anakin, but there is also an in-universe explanation if you care to think about it.

 

The five gallons of bloody-Sithiness was in a container marked "100% pure organic Chancellor.

 

There is no consistency with what you are saying. If Skywalker was on such another level, then why was he equaled by Kenobi on Mustafar? He was tapping his emotions before their fight even started. The whole midichlorian thing is whacked out. Either they do, or they do not impact how one taps the force, and since Anakin didn't get the onscreen-bene from having more than anyone else when he tapped into it... they (midi's) equal rubbish to me.

Midi's rank right up there with slave-virgin births and (post) classic trilogy prophecies.

Doesn't make Yoda look like any less of a buffoon.

 

Anakin/Vader was equaled by Kenobi on Mustafar because Obi Wan trained him. He knew his style. Anakin had great potential but that does not mean he had completely reached his peak yet.

The 'disturbance in the force' that was caused when Anakin was in danger only started when the duel began. Before that, there was still a chance they might not do battle. "Always in motion is the future."

 

Yeah it does. It simply establishes that a Sith Lord as masterful as Palpatine is able to hide his presence when a raging Chosen One isn't.

 

I really don't care for the "I sense Lord Vader is in danger" line. It's just soooo unlike Darth Sidious. It really comes off as just being a rushed excuse to get some aid to Anakin, so that he doesn't die on Mustafar.

 

Well how else was the script going to get Palpatine from Coruscant to Mustafar in time to save Vader?

"Prepare my shuttle, but don't rush. I just want to check on Vader on Mustafar to see how well he did his job."

It would just kill the pacing and the suspense of the climax.

Or maybe Vader would somehow comm Palpatine....no...I don't think there was any other way in the film than for Palpatine to sense Lord Vader is in danger, since Yoda attacked he would just assume another Jedi has been sent after Lord Vader and also through the force since the general audience just know the force is a magical forcefield, a master could sense his apprentice in danger.

 

^^^

Well, something simple like a Cloner informing the Emperor: "Your excellency, a Naboo cruiser landed on Mustafar!"

Sidious ponders before quickly answering: "Prepare my ship. This is an unexpected and dangerous development."

 

First of all that's too much detail and information. Why didn't they inform him before when the cruiser first landed? How would they know Mustfar's traffic reports? It just over-complicates the situation in the film and as I said dampers the pacing.

The line in the film just much more simple, direct and to the point.

 

Tis all nothing but opinion -- mine included.

The patented lines uttered on-screen by Sidious are plot contrived purely to rescue Anakin. They contribute nothing to the scene before, where Sids tells Yoda Vader will become greater than the both of them. Can you say "dialog disconnected?"

 

It is an odd one indeed.

Mind you, Anakin was walking the tightrope above gallons of lava, falling down lava flows, not to mention the lava surfing.

An in-universe explanation would be that he felt the danger brought by that insanely dangerous planet he sent him to.

When Obi-wan tried to take them both out into the open, alarm bells went off in his head.

 

"The Dark Side clouds everything."

Force sensitivity does not equal omnipotence.

 

Exactly, nor does it's power consistently work for it's wielder, either. The force bond issue was something that was demonstrated in the OT, yet people still don't understand it. The force does not make one omniscient. It does not guarantee the user anything but uncertainty.

 

Sidious did NOT have as much of an attachment to Maul or Dooku. He knew that his ultimate goal was to have Skywalker as his apprentice, and understood that losing Maul and Dooku did not mean his plans would fail. However, he did NOT want to lose Skywalker. Vader was his trump card.

 

I think it was more than a couple parsecs between Coruscant and Mustafar.

 

If you think about it the whole thing might really be Sidious' fault. I mean, had he not sent the Separatists to Mustafar, Anakin might have had a better shot fighting his old master in a much more tame environment. I still don't get why he chose Mustafar (well I do... because GL needed a place for Anakin to burn and require the suit).