Lightsaber Props & Choreography

Lightsaber props:

Here?s a thought regarding prop lightsaber blades. The more natural the material, the better. The more absorbent the material, the better. The lighter the prop blades hit each other, the better. Synthetic materials don?t absorb shock very well and transfer the vibrations right into the hand causing potential damage to your bones.

The problem first came up when I was in Japan when people tried out a polymer shinai for kendo. I don?t remember the specific material, nor the specific trauma but it was clear that natural materials work better than the synthetic ones for long term bashing. Kind of like tires which are tougher and last longer when synthetic materials are mixed in with amounts of natural rubber. So wood over metal; metal over synthetic materials. Wood is less dangerous than metal. Many samurai films use wooden blades painted silver.

I worked with wooden dowels for the Revelations fan film and they had a good feel to them. I believe each was your basic garden variety broom handle. They had a good solid balance and weight and we only hand two breaks with them at the point where the dowel screwed into the prop lightsaber casing.

Choreography suggestions:

1. Safety is the most important thing during filming.

2. Experiment before creating choreography. You can tweak the final routine at will.

3. Choreograph fighting to fit the scene and dialog. If there isn?t any dialog, there has to be ebbs and flows to who is winning. Also remember that clockwork tempo screams choreography. Pauses and breaks in the fight are more realistic. You also have to give the audience a break to take in the fight or else they get tired and stop paying attention. This is really an editing problem, but the task begins with the choreography.

4. When you begin learning routines. Step through it slowly without intensity, then slowly up the tempo and pacing.

5. Depending on how good the choreography, the trainer, and the director are, you can aim for real target area or to always fall short. It depends on the philosophy and experience of the trainer. Stage trainers may create choreography where points and edges are always short of the target, preventing accidental hits if a defender misses a block. A real fencer/martial artist trains to get exact distance for a hit.

6. When you hit, never give real swings. Always swing to hit the opponent?s blade, not their body. You aren?t swinging a baseball bat, nor are you doing real sword fighting. The ?strength and power? come from the actor who is ?acting? as if the blade were heavy or is being swung hard.

7. When blocking, don?t lock your arms. A proper block, whether with real swords or props, receives and redirects the energy of the oncoming blade. Locked arms and a locked body slows down the body?s reactions for the next move.

8. Think of contact between blades as ?clicks? not ?crashes.?

9. Take breaks. The more tired an actor becomes, the more likely he/she will make mistakes (and cause injuries).

10. Choreographers and their choreography are secondary to the director and his/her technical and aesthetic needs.


(At first I thought I was going to post this in the ?How to Make Lightsabers? thread, then then I thought it deserved its own thread.)

 

>>6. When you hit, never give real swings. Always swing to hit the opponent?s blade, not their body. You aren?t swinging a baseball bat, nor are you doing real sword fighting. The ?strength and power? come from the actor who is ?acting? as if the blade were heavy or is being swung hard. <<

More for sport than anything else, I'll disagree with this. Looking for the blade is to me the worst offense you can make as a choreographer/actor. If your actors are inexperienced at martial arts, you may have to do this - but it completely ruins my suspension of disbelief.

I don't so much mind missed strikes or opportunities - in choreography you have creative license to have your characters make choices on their techniques (i.e. a lot of bad ones if the fight is anything longer than 2 or 3 seconds). However, deliberately hitting the opponents blade, unless it is to remove the blade to better strike the opponent, is beyond a bad choice - it's pointless.

Here's my general rule of thumb: if the opponent doesn't move or block an incoming attack, they should be injured or dead. Of the fights I've done, the first one in PwNN best illustrates these philosophies.

-Spiff

 

Actually, just keep that in mind when you choreograph. Make the hits as if they were to strike at the body with closer blocks and longer strikes. This not only looks more realistic, but it helps the actor to focus on the target rather than the sheild.

 

When attacking, aim for your opponent and not their weapon (whether you follow through with your swings or not). This also makes a fight look more realistic.

 

"Locked arms and a locked body slows down the body?s reactions for the next move."

Is not true. I take martial arts, I know.

"When you hit, never give real swings. Always swing to hit the opponent?s blade, not their body. You aren?t swinging a baseball bat, nor are you doing real sword fighting. The ?strength and power? come from the actor who is ?acting? as if the blade were heavy or is being swung hard."

That is also terrible advice. It permits the "clockwork" you talked about. It becomes a routine instead of appearing to be a real fight.

 

"Locked arms and a locked body slows down the body?s reactions for the next move."

I took a year of Foil and Saber fencing, and locking joints are bad. When you lock your joints, you loose the strength of your arm muscles and rely on your bones, which "could" break.

That is actual combat fencing technique, I can't say that for Kendo or any other martial art.

 

Locking joints and locking muscles are different. If you lock your muscles, your next move can be more explosive.

 

There's no such thing as "locking" muscles. You lock your joints, and tense your muscles. The former is bad, the latter is good. Plurimus is talking about the former.

As for aiming for the blade, aiming for the blade and only for the blade is bad. However, look at it this way:

Say you have a swing for the waist. In real combat, you would swing as hard as you could with the intention of following through, i.e. slicing through the opponent all the way to the other side.

In stage/screen combat, you want to pull your strike. That doesn't mean swinging with less power, that means swinging hard but without the intention of following through. In a real swing, you are aiming to end the swing on the other side of the person's body. In a staged swing, you are aiming to end the swing where the blades collide (since the other actor will be blocking).

You still want to have the blade in a position where it looks like it could hit the opponent. Just not actually aim to collide with the body.

Make sense?

M. Scott

 

I am with spiff. That is once the fight has been practised slowly a number of times and all members of the fight know were there ment to be. You SHOULD strike for the person not the weapon

 

Oh, sorry, Lord Dorkman. I thought you would be able to understand that I was talking about "tensing" when I said "locking." You know, muscles are binary -- they're either contracted or loose, there's no in between, so in effect, you're locking. But whatever, my point still stands. He did say "locking arms" not joints or muscles specifically, so whatever.

 

You are not suppose to lock your arms in kendo. keep your limbs loose so you can react faster.

 

I take tae kwon do, and while they tell you to stay loose in combat, you actually move faster when you tense before you move.

 

Which, in turn, telegraphs. You tense at the snap, then and only then.

 

It doesn't matter if you telegraph in stage combat, if it makes your reaction faster. That's why they tell you not to in combat, but it's fine in this case.

 

Agreed with SilverFox, but I think we're all talking about the same thing here with different conceptions. "D" put it pretty well. As Fox said, the sine wave and the tensing of the muscles work together to be explosive, but not the locking of the joints.

I think 5 contradicts 6, personally. Look at that again. Again, "D" said it well with "pulling the strike." That could be the difference between a broken board and a hurt hand, but look the same onscreen.

~Neszis~

 

Oh, sorry, Lord Dorkman. I thought you would be able to understand that I was talking about "tensing" when I said "locking."

Ah, for the days when you were banned. I guess the mods thought the average intelligence of the boards was getting too high without you.

You need to learn to debate and form an argument, Fox. Plurimus says locking is bad. You say locking is good. He means locking joints, you mean tensing muscles. In actuality, you are talking about two different things, and the lack of careful choice of words creates an argument where in fact there is none.

M. Scott

 

I'm not starting an argument...?

Edit: If there was a poor choice of words, it would be the original poster's, because he made it unclear as to whether he was talking about joints or muscles.

Edit: And another thing: you don't need to flame me.

 

As a note on this rediculous "locking muscles" discussion, and the semantics that are ensuing...

In the context of martial arts nothing is absolute - you use what works.

Personally, I find I'm fastest when I'm relaxed, and then "spasm" a technique tightening at the end - but I have heard instructions every which way. Every style I've martial art I've studied and practiced recommends their own "formula" for combat, and when you teach a martial art, you need a hard-line attitude to instruction. You must however keep in mind, that most styles originated with what works for ONE person. That doesn't mean it works for every person.

Someone is bound at this point to pounce on the statement and say "I practice Jeet Kune Do which says..." To this I would like to say that all martial arts end up in the same place - it's just that the philosphies and methods of getting there are different.

Learning martial arts is like learning anything else... it's not as simple as a binary argument, and it's not easily described by bio-mechanics.

-Spiff

Edit: as a side note - I personally would never encourage people to lock joints. In unpredictable situations this can lead to hyperextension and dislocations. Be careful.

Edit: When I'm talking about not easily described, I'll try to clarify. In order to throw a technique correctly, EVERY muscle in your body should be optimally focused to that objective. When you break things into biomechanics, people concentrate on each muscle in turn - and as a result, the technique does not flow correctly because the fighter is focused on their lats or biceps as opposed to the technique itself. I've had limited success explaining this stuff to my students in person, let alone to people on the web via forums... but as Bruce Lee said:

"It is like a finger pointing towards the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger, or you will miss all that heavenly glory."

 

We aren't talking so much about martial arts as we are that when you tense your muscles, you can or can't move more quickly. I'm pretty sure it can be described by biomechanics, and if you wanted, I'm sure you could find support in either direction by searching on the internet. I speak from my personal experience when I say that I move faster when I'm tense.

 

We aren't talking so much about martial arts as we are that when you tense your muscles, you can or can't move more quickly.

Then why did your first post on the subject begin with "I take tae kwon do"?

You make me laugh, SilverFox. You make me laugh hard.

M. Scott

 

Dork: the topic of discussion is not martial arts, however, I did use it as backup of the statement that in my study of martial arts, I have found that tensing muscles makes me faster. Seriously, you should be able to follow my statements without me having to drag you through my though process. They aren't in another language, and they aren't designed to confused you.

 

Semantics aside, if you're moving with constantly tensed mucles, you're going to tire yourself out quicker, and there's a much higher risk of injury.

 

Well, I don't know about MUCH more quickly, but that's a valid point. So, go through it slowly in rehearsals, then give it your all when you feel confident, and you'll get the best performances on tape.

 

Getting back on point, I just wanted to echo the point made on wood versus metal: from a safety point of view, always choose wood first.

Ryan and Scott used aluminium on RvD, I know. As did Ray Park and Ewan McGregor on TPM.

But for all the newbies, please remember Ray and Ewan had arguably the finest living film swordmaster training them, and RvD wasn't the first fanfilm for Dubya or Dorkman. Don't risk someone's head being split open...on your first film anyway.

I think, though, that on fight choreography in fanfilms, safety versus credibility necessarily is on something of a continuum. Inevitably if you speed up, the risk of someone's knuckle getting cracked is greater. I think the only way around that is practice, practice, practice. How to get around the safety issue further? For me, the overriding principle is always attack at half strength, block at full strength. Or: pull your attacks, but put full strength into your blocks. That's about the best way to prevent an injury, because if the attacker stuffs up, the defender will actually block the strike...hopefully.

Oh, as an aside, one other trap for young players: don't load your saber hilts down with lead weights to try and "balance" the dowel blade. It makes throwing a saber at a padawan during a "force pull" sequence very painful for the padawan's nether regions if he misses the throw.

 

you actually move faster when you tense before you move.

wrong


safety versus credibility necessarily is on something of a continuum

Yes Saint. Hence you asked me to jump off a ****ing cliff during the shoot last year

It makes throwing a saber at a padawan during a "force pull" sequence very painful for the padawan's nether regions if he misses the throw.

Saint is referring to what happened to me when we where shooting. PLEASE TAKE HIS ADVICE!!! Catching a weighted down POINTY object with your balls is not fun.