So another in universe mystical force related thread. Anyway, I want to discuss the force and its limitations. In ANH, Vader says "the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force", the old EU ran with this idea and showed force powers to an extraordinary scale. The most powerful being what one can seemingly achieve in a state of oneness and force storm's. But in terms of scale, I wonder if we have barely scratched the surface. What are the limits of the force? The power or depth of the user's connection to it? Or is their a hard limit? Can one use force lightning to blast a planet to dust? Can one throw galaxies across the universe with telekinesis? Can life be created? And if so, can it be created ex nihilo? What other things can one do with the force? Can one achieve true immortality? Can one teleport themselves across time and space? Can one create whole universes and dimensions of one's own will? Can a force user bend all other life in the cosmos to his or her will? What are the limits of the force? To me, the answer is that any of the above I listed can be done, it's just that no force user in either canon has either reached that point or stretched that far(barring the ones maybe, and Jacen fighting Onimi) But what are everyone else's thoughts on this? What are the actual limits of the force? I mean in an in universe sense, not in a narrative sense, throwing planets and stars around and sending lightsabers through hyperspace would break the setting in terms of scale, but not in terms of their in universe possibility.
I always took that "the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force" as being something more subtle. Not anything as flashy as summoning a huge Force storm to eat up a fleet of ships...but sort of just by existing, a Force user can bend outcomes to his will.
The limit is your imagination. Or your doubt. What you believe truly you can do, even if incredibly near impossible out there. As Yoda taught in TESB! Something only is impossible, and you only fail, because you doubted it is possible. New Canon gave us already as crazy feats as the Legends did. Force Skype, Force teleportation, Force projection across the galaxy in TLJ. Then there is Snoke using the Force on Hux over the vast distance of space. Then there is even weirder stuff like Mortis, Dathomir and World between Worlds just to name a few. The problem is neither if it is possible or not. It is! The difficulty lies in believing it is possible, in unlearning what one has learned in life to be impossible. In letting go of fear, doubt, even hope which has lingering doubt in it or else it would be firm believe. Empty your mind, and just do it. No trying, no hoping. Why is the dark side looking as if it is stronger, more powerful? Because Darksiders have less doubt. Because they do things and only see their will and their will done. The Light is as strong for true Jedi but those limit themselves willingly in life to not harm other life unless the Force gives them an allowance for a blaze of glory and superpowered use for a special purpose. Also explained by Yoda and Kenobi in the OT, when discussing the strength of the dark side.
I don't think it has to be one or the other-the force can be more subtly powerful and also flashier at the same time. So if palpatine wished, could he teleport the Galaxy across the universe? Or force blast whole solar systems?
This right here is why I think "the only limit to Force abilities is your imagination" is too simplistic.
So would you say that is beyond the power of the force or simply beyond the ability of mere mortals to tap into?
I'm inclined to agree. The line is proved true with Luke's destruction of the Death Star. It wasn't intended as, like, "Blow up a planet? Pfft, that's nothing! Some Force users can blow up Solar Systems with their mind!" Though I'm not particularly bothered if they can. That stuff's fun. I prefer it to involve some kind of amplification device as in the case of TotJ, however.
One thing I don't believe we've ever seen a mortal Force-sensitive successfully do is complete resurrection of the dead... though the Bedlam Spirits pulled it off.
I firmly believe that at some point there must be a limit to what the Force can do, or rather, a limit to what the body can handle. Take for example the end of TLJ, where Luke fought Kylo on Crait even though he was just a projection. I feel like if you are that one with the Force that you should literally be one with the Force, meaning that you managed to pull of a great feat, but now you have ascended to a higher plane of existence.
That is certainly something to note yeah. Hmm, maybe there is so only so much power a force user even the absolute most powerful can channel in a body of flesh and blood? There are no limits on the force itself, but there are vague limits on what a force user can do without destroying their body. Seems reasonable to me.
The force is in everything, so naturally it is boundless. The ability of force sensitives is definitely limited. In the Darth Vader comic, Tarkin was able to calculate the distance at which Vader could use the force to choke people. We've seen Sidious choke Dooku from across the galaxy in TCW, but he and Dooku share a special connection - the very important bond of Master and Apprentice. That has to be a factor.
We also see Snoke choking Hux - there's no obvious special connection there. On the other hand, we don't know exactly how far away Snoke's fleet is at that point - might be only a few light years rather than 'across the galaxy'. Serenno, on the Legends map, looked to be on the order of 40,000 light years or so away from Coruscant. I'd presume it's in roughly the same place in the newcanon unless specified otherwise, since newcanon maps draw heavily from Legends maps.
I don't think there should any limits as to what the Force is capable of so long as the writers/authors don't get too crazy. Throwing planets around or making stars explode would be a bit too much but usually Force feats don't go too over the top.
I don't mind throwing planets around or blowing up stars(even without artificial enhancement as Sadow had) so long as it is made clear force users that do such things may as well be avatars of the force or gods, and it is also made clear that such power is extremely rare.
I mean, you have to take into account the oft-noted (but obscure) "will of the Force". It's got a good and bad side that can be used for some pretty extreme stuff but it tends toward balance over the long run. You can build a SKB with technology that will do what an SKB does. But even if the Force can be used to do something as drastic as blowing up a whole system, my guess would be that the Force itself would draw a line of "nope, I don't wanna" on that one.
There is limits whether in-universe or plot conviences. I think its pretty apparent that even the weight of objects factors in on what one can lift on their own and age and/or experience using the Force. Force weight training of sorts seems pretty usual for someone to master heavy objects and multiple objects, its kinda something that develops at various rates and even levels in individuals. Dooku as powerful as he was as a young initiate, still could not lift various rubble degree to free his sister and his wounded self in Dooku:Jedi Lost. - and it makes Yoda's test on Dagobah for Luke and his X-Wing rather fixed for him to fail ,lol.Even powerful Jedi or Sith would combine strength and powers to fight against nature or foe alike. There might be ways for them augment their strength through Life drain and other forms of witchcraft and sorcery or perhaps technology even.
Not sure if it's a limit on the Force itself or just a limit on the force users, but I just think there has to be some kind of limit on what Force users are capable of, for the sake of the plot. And IMO "Imagination" isn't that much of a limit.
Just thought of a good example to expand on my last post. The Orks in Warhammer 40K are latently psychic and can unintentionally warp reality. If they believe something, it becomes true. Orks think that painting a vehicle red makes it go faster, so it does, in violation of all the laws of physics. Depending on the source there can be more extreme examples. Sometimes Ork guns work despite being just metal tubes with scrap shoved in, or they fly away in a stolen ship because they didn't know it was out of fuel. We usually associate imagination with intelligence, but Orks open new possibilities by simply being too stupid to know any better. So if in Star Wars the only limit on Force Powers is "imagination" and "don't have any doubts", then couldn't any Force sensitive idiot have all the power in the universe? Or, say a Force sensitive child in a primitive society is told he's a wizard, and he tries to use his powers to conjure up food from nothing. If imagination and confidence are the only requirements, then this kid has just invented a new Force power. But I think there's gotta be something else in play here, either a limit on what the Force is capable of, a limit those who try to channel it's power.
Thing with the Orks is however that these things only tend to work if there are enough Orks in a Waaagh, the more Orks there are the stronger these "miarcles" become, but also weaken when they die. I think there is even a refernce in the lore that when you start decimating a Waaagh their tech will start to break, their flying mashines will crash and so on because there isn´t enough Waaaagh enegery around.
The force is there and certain individuals within that universe can access its power. It's like Dr. Strange minus the light show. There is no denying that Disney Star Wars movies or Disney Star Wars period has made many things possible. TLJ felt like a sub-powered Marvel movie with its super Skype, force push of Hux, Luke's force levitation, projection etc, to Rey at the end lifting super heavy boulders. And of course, Leia flying in space. What made these powers more than what we had seen before is that they were layered. They were not just one power, it was multiple powers at once. Take Leia for example. She didn't just fly in space. She was knocked out unconscious from the bridge and floated far from the ship and then you saw her face begin to freeze up. Space has -441 degrees Fahrenheit so survival without protection ....yeah you get the picture. So, the force wakes her up, unfreezes her, cocoon's her and moves her from where she was at, back to the ship. Yeah, she succumbs and has to be placed in medical, but the power itself was layered. It's not Iron Man flying around and shooting missiles or stuff like that. The same thing with Luke, he levitated, force projected himself across the galaxy, made himself look yunger, even force projected his old blue lightsaber which Kylo didn't pick up. That feat in an of itself is impressive and rival what I have seen Dr. Strange do. There are limits, that's why you don't see everyone flying in the air. Its only done at special moments by special people and in certain circumstances. I just used TLJ because that had the most super powers in one movie all together. Episode 9 will porbably add some more and if the trailer is any indication that leap by Rey was pretty impressive. But when you add TCW series, Rebels, and some of the Marvel comics, you can see that the force can do a lot of magical things. In legends, it was even more outrageous. Take the Darth Bane trilogy books. Darth Bane is a super Sith if you ask me and if you read the second book you can see how he used the force to get out of the moon back to the planet Onderon. Of course the planet was close to each other but common, its close to 70 miles of flying out of the atmosphere, then cross the vacuum of space and going into the adjacent planet. That was powerful. Or the third book, at the beginning when Darth Bane ignites his lightsaber and begins to deflect every rain drop. Thor can't that, and neither can Iron Man or Mrs. Marvel, or Capt. Marvel. Then in the Darksaber book, Dork 81 along with 10 other jedi's force push 17 Imperial 2 class Star Destroyers across the galaxy and damages their hyperdrive. He died at the end but the force power was amazing. Then you have Dark Empire and Palpy. No need to go over that.
In Star Wars, whether canon or legends, the force has been used to do extraordinary things. Star Wars can rival anything that Marvel or the DC Universe has, all it takes is the imagination of the writers, producers, directors, and special effects people to make it happen.
In theory, no. In practice, yes. There are limits to what the sentient mind can conceive and those that must be broken for someone like Luke to progress in his training. The interesting thing is, the whole concept of becoming a Force ghost is essentially breaking down barriers of separation between the self and the Force and simply becoming the Force. The Sufis would call it annihilation in and subsistence with God(the Force). So, Obi-Wan saying "if you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" is quite huge. I digress. The limits are perhaps conceptual, but also simply the material world. At some point, a Force user is thinning the barrier between the material realm and the more subtle realms. I don't know if Palpatine's condition after fighting Windu is still dark side decay or if it is simply supposed to be injury. I personally prefer dark side decay, simply because there should be a price. Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
