Linux?

Hey all!

In my company we are all for Open Source software. To a point where I am the only one still using Windows XP...

Do you guys know of any good

1) Music and sound-editing programs for Linux?
2) Video editing and effects programs for Linux?

 

I can't remember the Sound Editing program I had, but I do know for video editing on Linux, you can try Cinelerra.

A quick search on google will give you plenty of places to look for sound editing programs.

 

Try hitting the computer with a penguin.

Admittedly, it won't edit video, but it will be a little bit of poetic irony.

 

Where is durbn? Ifigured he would have jumped all over this thread....

 

Normally, I would. But, alas, I have no answers for thos specific questions.

Sorry...

 

Funk-E: Haha Like that!

Actually, it IS ironic that such a superior platform as Linux, doesn't have superior software. Only recently has there been even close to usable Office software. (Such as Open Office). All too often, though, you are stuck in CLI-land with some semi-finished beta-version of some hack someone did to solve a completely different problem... Sigh.

Now - I DO like Linux, and that's why I ask, all penguin-lovers out there

 

I agree... I would like to switch to Linux completely one day. But the open source community needs to get together to really solve some of the inconsistencies between the distrobutions first.

I actually just wrote a whole big thing about Linux this morning on NP2k. If you'd like to read it, click here

It pretty much lays out my feelings on the entire system for it's pros and cons.

 

LINUX ROCKS THE HOUSE!!!!!!

Cinelerra is prolly one of the best ones.

If you're looking for something other than Cinelerra, and you want it to be free, check out Source Forge

 

Audacity is another good audio program that is open source and available for linux (as well as windows and mac).

As far as video editing...

http://www.xs4all.nl/~salsaman/lives/
http://heroinewarrior.com/cinelerra.php3
http://www.virtualdub.org/
http://kino.schirmacher.de/
http://mjpeg.sourceforge.net/
http://www.mainconcept.com/index_flash.shtml

 

Here's a hugeo list

 

I've been using RedHad 9 for about 1 1/2 months now. It's a lot better then windows in a lot of ways.

www.linux.org - Apps

 

Actually, it IS ironic that such a superior platform as Linux, doesn't have superior software.

That is if you don't count Maya, XSI, Houdini, Photorealistic RenderMan, smoke, Nuke, and a few others ;-).

1) Music and sound-editing programs for Linux?

Here you go:

The Linux Soundfile Editor Roundup

I actually just wrote a whole big thing about Linux this morning on NP2k. If you'd like to read it, click here

Nice to see people being so "eloquent". Plus a lot of those things are misleading unless you are using a very old or misconfired distro.

 

Is Mandrake 9.0/KDE 3.0 old?

And, if it's misconfigured, some of the things I stated as making the OS difficult are directly responsible.

I think I gave a very objective overview of my experience. Only someone who is an outrageous expert with Linux would say that my post was "misleading".

Could you be more specific? An open discussion here probably could benefit those curious souls who've never used it.

 

Only someone who is an outrageous expert with Linux would say that my post was "misleading".

Well not really. Not long ago peoploe had to mes with DOS and edit text files if you wanted some game to play or get sound of aSoundblaster compatible (pre-Windows 95). Right now I consider myself a Linux hobbyist, though I used to use quite a bit more at my previous job. You just need to know the basics of how a computer and OS work, rest os window dressing (pun intended).

Could you be more specific? An open discussion here probably could benefit those curious souls who've never used it.

Sure.

First of all calling all Linux users snobs is not only condescending and unfair. It would be akin to calling all Windows and Mac users morons because they only know to push buttons as opposed to know what is going on in their systems. Sure there are some very elitist Linux users (just look around Slashdot to see them a plenty), but so there are in the Windows world (the only M$ solution will work kind of mentality). When I subscribed to the RedHat mailing lists they were all very helpful. Friends that knew it better were also always helpful.

Intsalling software is not a lot more difficult than Windows. You can still find programs on Windows tht won't install right (have to do it again) or screw your system somehow. And besides the registry is a moronic idea. Ever had to deal with a screwed registry? Linux has the same problem for external programs, some might not install right. But at least you can get under the hood to make it work. Most good programs come in RPM or Deb format, basicly just as easily to double click. Some actually install automatically from source (Cgwin on Windows comes to mind). If you are spending money on real programs like Maya, then you better get a certified system, but that also applies on the Windows side of things. Most of the time I never had to install anything from source, just got the RPM for RH and that was it, no hassles. Most of the file system inconsistencies are minor, and besides it's better to stick to one (say Mandrake RPMs might not work on RH or viceversa, but a lot of the time they do). But the Unix way is a lot more consistent in things than Windows ever has been.

As far as GUI, yes sometimes they are klunky. Depnds what you use: KDE or Gnome or something else, and what window manager. It's usually better to check around first. I found the versions included in Fedora 1 and the latest Knoppix to be just as good as the Windows stuff. For specifics they need a bit more polish and stability but it's getting there.

As far as troubleshooting and configuration it depends. If you stay all GUI its about the same as windows, unless you really screw up the system. But as I said have you ever messed up file associations in Windows or the registry, mail corruption in Outlook, etc. They are a beyotch to fix and sometimes Win won't let you. The advantage to windows is that it usually comes preinstalled so a lot of problems are taken care off. Just try intsalling a diferent OS on a laptop. If you get a preinstalled Linux system (or say let an expert install dual boot on your machine) you'll barely have any problems. I installed it for my mom and she used it without problems (email, browsing, writing letters, etc.) for lik 2 years (until we got a new printer that didn't have a proper driver, which is one of the important problems in Linux, always check with your distro).

It might not be the easiest thing using it I'll admit, there must be a willingness to learn. Try Knoppix for probably the easiest way to try it out (runs of a bootable CD, you don't even have to install dual boot).

 

Very well said. All good information.

I'm sorry to offend by referring to the Linux community as snobs. But, more than once did I go on some forum to try to get an answer and got shot back with a "you should know more before coming here, boy" kind of answer.

In fairness, I have found more than a few people who were very kind and helpful. Without them, I likely would have had a pretty hard time with stuff.

I, too, used computers back in the days when DOS was the only OS. I remember booting up my machine with a 360k floppy. I remember that without some knowledge of BASIC programming and a good grasp of DOS, you stood no chance at getting anything done. And, I deffinitely apply that knowledge when working with Linux.

And, Oh YES! I deffinitely think that the registry is the single worst idea EVER!

But, that's me. I'm 35 and have been working with computers for 20 years. And, I still felt like a real amateur when I first started working with Linux. I found myself really having to think much harder at a much lower level than I had for many years. And, even still, I had some trouble getting things to work right.

To this day, I still have trouble configuring the various services. I installed WebMin to get me a nice GUI for all my server configurations... I still don't know what 1/2 the options even mean.

The average home user - especially nowadays, has NO concept of working outside a GUI. They also have no concept of file systems, directory structures, command lines, or any of the other elementary tricks with computers. (Man, I wish I could have said that better...)
The point is, in order for Linux to be able to compete with Windows, it needs to be a lot more friendly than it currently is.

Now, having said all that, I commend the makers of distros like Red Hat, Mandrake, SUSE, and a bunch of others for spearheading the effort to do exactly what I'm saying. Make Linux more friendly. Make it more usable.
It's just not to the point yet. It's getting closer. And I think it would be misleading to tell people that Linux is super easy, and requires no learning curve.

This is why I tried to related my experience the way I did.

 

First of all - I can agree... To ALL points made in this thread.

I used to work as a systems administrator in some LARGE networks before, and I have used and administered UNIX boxen for quite a while. After that I worked with Research and Development in a Mobile (phone) Operator in Sweden, and did such things as building and compiling fairly low-level stuff on UNIX and Linux-machines. For example we tried out new vocoders to use in both GSM and later in UMTS (3G in Europe...)

So - I DO think I have the right to whine.

And I do, because I STILL think that Linux is the next best thing to sliced bread when it comes to stability, quality and overall likeability. I REALLY like it, and I like the mindset of a lot of the people using it. I have found very helpful people and I have often been met with respect, once I leant to ask smarter questions.

So all is well and good with that.

But I STILL think that in USER-land (IE - NOT running a webserver, mailserver or six-or-more different desktops on several window-managers, but real every day applications) Linux fails short.

Yeah - Windows sucks. The reasons I want to migrate to Linux are the very ones you all know... When a (say...) VST-plugin crashes on my Windows box, it will drag Cubase and more-often-than-not eventually even the OS itself. Work has gotten lost this way. And I don't trust my computer one bit, even if it is configured after all the rules in the book, and optimised for sound and music.

But my problem is that I have, so far, had a pretty big problem finding any realistic alternatives. Sound editing, such as mastering and stuff, can be done - sure, but music? Often, as a musician, I am STILL limited to some 0.09-unstable version of some quick-and-dirty hack that might get updated in the future. But the hack has probably not even been made by a musician in the first place, but rather a (skilled, I give you that) programmer with a programmers view on when a problem is solved...

You think I am being harsh?

Have anyone of you TRIED to get a Linux system running any music software? Or even getting a semi-professional sound interface (in my case a M-Audio Ozone) to run?

You HAVE to do a Kernel recompile, just to get it running. And then you have to make some REALLY esoteric stuff to set up buffers and stuff, to optimise the driver for your specific system. Instead of probing the system and setting defaults on stuff like buffer-size, sample-rate and test the driver automatically for jitter and latency.

Let me remind you all that this is BEFORE even finding a program that might run with my setup. Before installing stuff like JACK and certainly lightyears from stuff like real user applications.

There are coming up some really cool software for music now, but Linux will not be a part of that market until it gets easier to use 'em.

I can install GREAT software (outperforming most of what you can get on Windows or Mac OS) such as Rosegarden, Jamin and Lilypond (to name three really great answers to real needs that composers have) but still not get a tone out of them. Just because I have forgotten to install (and maybe patch by hand) some sort of underlying software. Rosegarden, for example, needs the kernel-patch, the right driver, the right settings, JACK, the right settings for that and finally some half-a-dozen setting files to be edited before I can record my first tone in it.

Frustrating? Yeah!

Userland software is easier to install and use on Windows. But the underlying architecture stinks... But what is a musician to do? Most musicians are not interested in learning how to administrate a UNIX box. They want to use a TOOL to get the MUSIC done.

 

To this day, I still have trouble configuring the various services. I installed WebMin to get me a nice GUI for all my server configurations... I still don't know what 1/2 the options even mean.

If it's any consolation, no one knows what half of the options in Linux are ;-). There's stuff in Apache I'm not 100% how to change or what some seting does, but the basics are pretty easy to grasp and at least defaults are sensible. Still...

The point is, in order for Linux to be able to compete with Windows, it needs to be a lot more friendly than it currently is.

I think it 90% there already, just a bit of polish and consistency (which varies by distro and version). The main problem is having to install it one self with little experience. If it came preinstalled right there wouldn't be much problems. I made tests with a few people (including my Mom) with no major complaints, the main problem lies elsewhere.

And I think it would be misleading to tell people that Linux is super easy, and requires no learning curve.

Agreed. And that also why you encountered problems getting help. The Linux culture expects you to at least be willing to learn, nit have everything served to you on a platter. So you get the "snobs" who expect you to be a master of the system. fortunately not everyone is that way.


<SNIP>Lots of interesting stuff about music on Linux</SNIP>
But what is a musician to do? Most musicians are not interested in learning how to administrate a UNIX box. They want to use a TOOL to get the MUSIC done.

This bring another interesting point which is that usually, for serious stuff, you first pick the best app for the job (that you can afford), and then choose the best platform to run it. If it's for a hobby it usually happens the oter way, you already have a platform and then we hear "what's the best app in X for this".

Though you are implying you are a serious user of this stuff. As a paying customer of Cubase, you certainly can request (even demand) Steiberg to do a port to Linyux. That's how stuff like Maya (first the batch renderer, then the whole sheban), XSI, Houdini, PRMan and others got ported to Linux. Paying customers (and some very important ones) demanded those apps to be ported. There are constant rumors the Lightwave batch renderer might be ported as well.

There are certain niches (CGI and I guess music) there open source and free will have a very hard time having usable alternatives except for a few cases. Besides some good renderers (like Aqsis and Pixie) and modeleres (Wings3D) there is not much in the way of really usable 3D apps (though some show potential). Not enough expertise available in the open source camp for those very small niches.