Lord of the Rings Impact upon the EU....

Does anyone beleive the LotR books, as well as any other franchise, like Star Trek, Babylon 5, Dungeons and Dragons, etc, etc, have had any impact on how the authors write, describe, or the plots, that the authors use in the EU?

Any thoughts, opinions, would be greatly appreciated. Just normal conversation, and good, thinking explanations. I'm just wondering, I'd like to see everyone's opinions.

 

Hmm go no further than the Tales of the Jedi comic series.

 

Matthew Trias:

What do you mean?

 

Lucas was heavily influenced by LOTR when he made the movies. Obi-Wan = Gandalf, Luke = Frodo, Jango = Wormtongue, Dooku = Saruman, Palpatine = Sauron, etc.

As for the EU, there are the phonetic similarities from Gondor and Eriador (Fondor and Eriadu).

 

Jango = Wormtongue?
I dunno. I see that one as something of a stretch.

 

Their characters are more similar than you might think:

After confronting Gandalf in Rohan, Wormtongue flees to Isengard to meet his true master, Saruman.

After confronting Obi-Wan on Kamino, Jango flees to Geonosis to meet his true master, Count Dooku.

 

Interesting pick with Jango and Wormtongue.

Here's an obvious:

Gandalf=Ganner

To sacrifice his life for friends, stands in the way of a massive beast:

Gandalf - "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!"

Ganner - "NONE SHALL PASS!"

 

Smaug = Deathstar??

 

Smaug = Deathstar - I like that somehow... Luke slaying the dragon! Bard's single arrow being the same as Luke's torpedos.

As for the Wormtounge/Jango thing - I think all your other comps. are spot on Bib, but not that one!

The one massive difference - bravery. Jango was a man of action, the first to leap into the fray. Wormtounge would sooner have lept into a closet!


For names in the EU, it was always kinda hard to ingore this similarity - Isildur/Isolder.

 

I think the actual characters weren't copied or anything, there are just similarities. You will find them between the LOTR and lots of other things, as you will with SW and lots of other things.

I think that every work of an individual is heavily influenced by their own experiences in life. GL based SW on films on what he saw in other films (and most probably novels and other pieces of literature or works). It is the individual's own creation based on those things that were created before his/her own creation but had a part in influencing its direction or themes (or many other aspects).

There is always an influence but it's usually not a direct copy... there are only similarities.

 

Well LotR is THE original fantasy, everything else seems to always have a few Clichés when compared to LotR.

 

There's a pirate called Arwen Cohl in the EU... or is it Cohl Arwen? I forget. *dur*

 

Captain Cohl is in 'Cloak of Deception', but I don't recall his first name.

As for the Jango/Wormtongue thing, I don't buy it. Aside from their personalities being totally different, the only reason Jango is working for Dooku is because he's getting a fat paycheck. Aside from that, Jango makes no affronts as to who his "real master" is, as opposed to Wormtongue.

 

Well LotR is THE original fantasy, everything else seems to always have a few Clichés when compared to LotR.

Uhhhh... Odyssey?
Iliad?
Beowulf?

 

Well LotR is THE original fantasy, everything else seems to always have a few Clichés when compared to LotR.

Uhhhh... Odyssey?
Iliad?
Beowulf?

Not to mention:

Robert E. Howard's fiction, including Conan.
H.P. Lovecraft
Clark Ashton Smith
Lord Dunsany (The King of Elfland's Daughter)
The Norse Sagas (including The Saga of the Volsungs, which HEAVILY influenced LotR)
E.R. Eddison, who wrote The Worm Ouroboros and several others.
LSDC's Howard Shea stories
Hope Mirrlees' Lud-in-the-Mist
William Hope Hodgson
Fritz Leiber
and how about The Epic of Gilgamesh? I think that was around a little before LotR, too.
And there are probably HUNDREDS of fantasies that I either don't know about or that just aren't springing to mind. . .

 

Mastadge, dp4m I count most of those as mythology and different. Mythology is supposedly based around fact...but you're right about most...didn't know that conan came before LotR ?

 

Loon -- Most of mine are not mythology. One, maybe two on my list are mythology.

 

yes indeed you are right but damn my pride, you can never be right

I know this off thread but the books you have listed are they any good? (excluding Conan).

LotR is hugely popular and I am sure that many people think of LotR first when comparing fantasy films and literature.(especially now the films are being released). Many people read Lotr as their first fantasy and consequently feel that any fantasy, be it Star Wars or another series is clichéd to LotR.

 

Mastadge, dp4m I count most of those as mythology and different.

And just a side note, I don't believe (though I could be wrong) that the Odyssey and Iliad were written by Homer as mythological constructs (in that he was penning stories OF the gods), merely that he was constructing a story based upon the mythology that involved Odysseus interacting with fantastical elements therein. Much like Clash of the Titans.

And Beowulf was certainly not mythology...

 

I don't know if GL based his characters and events on LotR and the Hobbit in partical. These are all pretty common archtype's that have been used for years by many authors and movie makers even before Tolkin.

 

I would also like to point out that Lucas' characters are far more similar to Lloyd Alexander's "The Prydain Chronicles" (about Taran and Pigwig) than LOTR.

 

I know this off thread but the books you have listed are they any good? (excluding Conan).

Yes. A couple aren't very well known, but most are very good. The ones that aren't good aren't remembered 100 years later. Also, I forgot Edgar Rice Burroughs. He definitely belongs on that list.

 

Manly Wade Wellman also belongs on the pre-Tolkien fantasy list.

 

Millions of storylines have been written over the years and it is therefore pretty hard not to have similarities between novels...does this translate to influence?
Star Wars OT has a fairytale type of storyline(in my opinion anyway), I think that other novels will have more influence on style rather than storyline. My Fantasy reading has been limited to LotR and Dragonlance (And lots of Myths and Legends ) and its probably no suprise then, that I don't see a lot of apparent influence on the EU. (sorry drifting..Again).
LotR impact on the EU. LotR has Gandolf and the wizards as embodied angels (kinda) and I see the Jedi as a kind of embodiment of the force.
Anakin is Sauron. Sauron a fallen man of Numenor(sp?..again) how turns on his kin. Anakin turns against the Jedi.
The Emperor then becomes Morgoth.
Stormtroopers become Orcs and the Nagzul Dark Jedi or Sith.
Do ya rekon?

 

"Well LotR is THE original fantasy, everything else seems to always have a few Clichés when compared to LotR."

I was about to jump on this, but others already got it. Good for them.

And I think Beowulf was definitely created before LotR. And it's not a Mythology, either...