Lord Tyranus

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but I always found it interesting that they never referred to him as Darth Tyranus ever throughout AOTC and ROTS. It was only ever Count Dooku or Lord Tyranus. Does this mean he hadn't reached the rank of Darth or wasn't completely enveloped in the dark side yet to have been given the title. It would be excellent if someone could shed some light on this for me.
Blighty.

 

He was publically known as Count Dooku, but his Sith name was Darth Tyrannus; like Anakin Skywalker's Sith name was Darth Vader. You might say Senator/Chancellor/Emperor Palpatine's Sith name was Darth Sidious, but we can't be sure what his real name is since there's not a lot of background on Palpatine before TPM.

 

I understand that, but are we certain he made Darth. Because in the movies, he is never referred as Darth Tyranus. All the jedi call him Count Dooku but Sidious calls him Lord Tyranus. No one calls him Darth, so i was juz wondering if he actually was a Darth. Every other Sith at some point in the PT is referred to as Darth (Maul, Vader and Sidious).
Blighty

 

I always took Lord Tyrannus like I did Lord Vader and Lord Sidious. That said, I think Lucas may very well have been purposefully avoiding calling him Darth Tyrannus to show that Dooku's not quite as Dark as Darths Maul, Vader, and Sidious.

 

If you read the spoiler's for Darth Bane's Path Of Destruction book you might get a better understanding of why Dooku was never called Darth. Or just pick up the book. It's a great read, I've now read it twice.

 

He is very much a Darth. You only connect him with the name tyranus at the end when he is greeted by palpatine, and Sith Lord refer to each other as Lords, Darths. When describing each other to others, they may say darth. Such as 'this is my apprientice, Darth Maul', 'Darth Vader will become more powerful then either of us', 'Thousands of senators are now under the infludece of a Dark Lord of the Sith called Darth Sidious'. When they are talking to eachother its Lord. 'welcome home lord tyranus' 'Lord maul, be mindful'. The same can be said for the jedi. They never say to each other 'hello jedi master yoda'. they just say master.

 

Well I found it interesting how in Dark Lord, even after the Jedi Purge, nobody knows that Tyranus is Dooku.

 

Here's the thing, nobody in the GFFA knows that he is Darth Tyranus. That's only in the novelization that Grievous tells Obi-wan the name. And Ventress and Durge knew. But anyway, he's only called Lord Tyranus because when Sith address each other, it is much like Imperials addressing Vader in the OT. Dooku is a Darth, but the Darth is only used when speaking in the third person about someone else. When Palpatine talked to his Apprentices in private, he addressed them as Lord Maul, Tyranus and Vader respectively. Or he called them friend or apprentice. He called Maul "Darth Maul" to the Niemoidians to let them know that there is another Sith Lord. He called Anakin "Darth Vader" when he gave him his name. After that, it was Lord Vader or "my friend."

 

IIR Sid says "This is my apprentice Lord Maul", not Darth.

 

I always thought "Darth" was just the Sith word for "Lord". So if Sidious is calling him "Lord" Tyrannus, then he's also calling him "Darth" Tyrannus.... the same way he did for Vader in the OT.

edit:

Yeah, that's a pretty big dangling loose thread left at the end of the entire PT... It would have helped if at least somewhere along the line, Obi-Wan realized that the clones would always have betrayed them because they were commissioned by 'Tyrannus' who was.... dundun... Dooku!

Tnen again, it could just be evidence of how un-intelligent Obi-Wan was.

 

i get what you are saying but i think the poster's point is the same as the one i read in another thread.

i'm not sure where i stand on this, let me say that first, it's interesting but i'm not sure it has meaning.

Lucas certainly could have writen in a situation where Sidious was talking to someone and refered to Dooku in the 3rd person as Darth Tyrannus, he did this for Sidious, Vader and Maul on screen at some point.

I think his point is that it is never done with Dooku and with Lucas who is so heavy into symbols there might be a deliberate reason for it beyond the fact that i couldn't tell who was the good guy and who was the bad guy in AotC till the end of the movie.

At one point i remember clearly wondering if Dooku and the seperatists were the founders of the rebelion in a sense.

like i said it's interesting that he avoids doing this, even when Jengo mentions the name he doesn't throw Darth in, and he could have. None of us would have criticized it i don't think.

Does it mean anything? I'm not sure

 

Sidious, Maul, Vader and Tyranus are all Lords/Darths. The titles are interchangeable.

 

I think it partly has to do with not knowing who is good and who is bad, but more with Sidious' deception of everyone, including those he was working with. If Jango had known Tyranus was a Sith (I'm not saying he did or didn't) and revealed it to Obi-Wan, I imagine that would signal some alarms in Obi-Wan's mind - a Sith Lord recruiting the template for the Republic's army? That's not right. And Grievous also never knew that Dooku = Tyranus - Sidious never revealed more than he had to to anyone. He let the Neimoidians in on Maul's existence to strike fear into them, and with Vader it didn't matter since he was about to betray them one last time. But with Dooku/Tyranus being the leader of the opponents of Sidious' alter ego, it would start to raise too many questions if it was let on that Dooku and Tyranus were the same.

As far as the original question of the thread goes, I agree with those who have said that Tyranus did attain "Darth status" and was not referred to as such by Sidious simply because Sith Lords don't call each other "Darth."

 

I gotta agree with the "Darth to outsiders, Lord to insiders" view. The only time Sidious ever calls one of his apprentices DARTH is when he is introducing to outsider, such as Nute Gunray, or when he actually gives the name to Vader. When he is talking to them, its Lord, not Darth. I can't recall him ever calling Darth Maul "Darth" when actually talking to him, nor do I recall him ever addressing Vader as Darth Vader when speaking to him in the OT. When he is talking to them directly, its Lord Vader, Lord Tyrannus, etc. Even the Imperial officers call Vader Lord, and not Darth...yet, the rebels call him Darth Vader, as do Obi-Wan and Yoda. So, I think its just an internal vs. external name.

 

I argee with that.

 

Lord and Darth can be used interchangably among sith.

 

Great question. Ever since reading Path of Destruction I have wondered the same thing.

I like the way you think! Even before I read, P.O.D. I never got the feeling that Dooku was like the other Sith. He may have been twisted, but he never comes off as a real bad guy.

I actually started that thread, and in it, I made a similar comment regarding Dooku and the use of Darth. Too coincidental? I don't know. Worth debating that's for sure.

 

Originally, Jango did refer to Dooku was "Darth Tyranus" when he talked to Obi-wan. But Lucas switched it to Tyranus, apparnetly to make it less obvious that a Sith was involved. I don't think it had to do with Dooku not earning the title Darth. I think it was due to Lucas wanting to make it not so clear that the Sith were behind the Clone Army. In ROTS, the Jedi and Palpatine know that Dooku is a Sith Lord. It would've looked odd in AOTC for the Jedi to ask what Dooku's Sith name was.

Going by the films, the Jedi never have direct contact with Dooku after Geonosis. Only Anakin and Obi-wan. So they wouldn't properly introduce themselves.

 

If Tyranus wasnt his sith name, if he wasnt Darth Tyranus, why would sidious call him Tyranus at all? If he wasnt a darth, why wouldnt he just say 'Welcome home, Lord Dooku'. Even if it were just an alias he used to cover his tracks with jango, why would palpaine refer to him as that. Palps knows who he is. Its Darth Tryranus, a Dark Lord of the Sith, one of the two sith lords. Always two there are, no more, no less.

 

No, he says "This is my apprentice Darth Maul".

 

to address the above point, we are meant to assume Kenobi worked out Dooku had ordered the Clones when he refers to Dooku being Sidious' apprentice.

he says Anakin had replaced Dooku as Sidious' new apprentice so he knows Dooku was a Sith, he knows the Sith started the war to destroy the Jedi, and i'm sure he puts 2 and 2 together.

 

And just to clarify that everyone In Universe knows hes a sith lord just listen to palpatines 'get help your no match for him he's a sith lord' line.

 

Yep. A Sith... Lord.
One that proceeded to get "pwned -with the quickness", by Anakin.

***

Gotta love the slick-witted Dun Moch attempt from Palpy though.

 

did you read the thread?

i ask because the topic does not seem to be debating if he's a sith lord.

it's more a question of why every other sith lord is at some point in time refered to as Darth except Dooku and was it intentional or just the way the story worked out.

of course he's a sith lord.

did lucas mean to show us something, maybe the way Sidious sees him, by not using the Darth title for him?

He was after all a pawn who was used and discarded, never really the apprentice Sidious had in mind. Maul was his apprentice, then when maul died he wanted Anakin but needed a trained adult apprentice and had to wait to get Anakin so he turns to Dooku.

Many have speculated that dooku didn't learn that much from Sidious, that he was never really indoctrinated the way the other sith lords were, maybe he was just used.

I'm not sure where i come down on this, it seems deliberate but it's meaning i'm unsure of.

 

Nobody calls the Emperor Darth in the entire OT, does that mean he's not a Sith Lord? (yeah, yeah, retroactively and all). I think that it was intended that Dooku be as much a Sith Lord as any of the others. Dooku, like Palpatine, just has that public identity, and we only see the private Sith identity once.