ST "Lost Ben Solo, you did. Lose Rey, we must not" Then why did Luke not help Rey first?

"Mod Approved"

So Yoda was lecturing Luke about life lessons and how to pass on "failure". However Ray had already left to meet Kylo and possible confront Snoke on his flagship.
Now it can be argued that Yoda's lecture is what made Luke intervene on Crait. However should Luke not have gone or force-projected himself to Snoke's flagship first? Yoda states they must not loose Rey, yet Luke is leaving a relatively untrained apprentice alone on a Imperial Dreadnought with thousands of troops, a supposed dark side god in Snoke, his imperial guards who have been trained to take out jedi/sith and ofcourse Kyle Ren?
Should aiding Rey not been the first priority given that had Kylo not had his change of heart, Rey could have been dead or turned to the Dark Side by Snoke? Either way she was going straight into the fire-pit and Yoda is explicitly telling Luke not to loose her? Luke already told Rey that Ben was gone and irredeemable, so its not like he was anticipating Kylo having a change of heart and killing Snoke?
And Kylo's change of heart or not, what if Rey had decided to take his offer because she felt abandoned by Luke's refusal to teach her? Either-way instead of confronting his nephew on Crait, shouldn't Luke have backed up Rey by confronting both Kylo/Snoke on the Supremacy?

 

He had no means of getting to the Supremacy. For all we know he took time to even check out the X-wing one final time even though it had been dismantled and stood no chance of being available for space travel again.

By the time he had the idea of astral projection Snoke was dead and she’d already made her choice not to join him.

More important that she makes the choice on her own anyway for the story.

 

Luke knows she went to try to turn Kylo Ren back to the light side but he has no way of knowing where the Supremacy is so there's no way he'd be able to get there even as just a Force projection (which would be completely pointless anyway and probably wouldn't have fooled Snoke like it did Kylo.) The reason he is able to locate Crait is because Leia is there. They have an incredibly strong bond which has been shown in the films and the new novels to allow them to locate each other even from across the galaxy (except when Luke cuts himself off from the Force which is why Leia can't find him in TFA or TLJ.)

 

Yeah i believe the movie even implies after luke re connects to the force, he helps leia awaken from her coma force style.

 

Also consider the context that the astral projection was so taxing/draining that it would ultimately kill him. His appearance on Crait served both tactical and strategic ends. Tactically, it worked because Ben Solo's emotions are so clouded by his hatred of Skywalker. The intensity of his feeling overwhelmed any rational or logical perspective (how was Skywalker able to deflect all of those blasts and remain unscathed?) That same tactic would not have worked on Snoke. More importantly, as a strategic move--Skywalker facing down the First Order not only saved the remnants of the resistance but it also advanced a critical propaganda feat. It is a story that will be told and retold in every quarter of the galaxy (as the final scenes make clear) and it becomes something much larger--part of a legend--that inspires others to take up arms and join the rebellion. So in a lot of ways, it is bigger than Rey. The Force and the light are bigger than the Jedi, the Skywalkers or Rey.

And Rey's decision to confront Ren was hers alone to make. She chose to face him and he chose not to interfere (as Obi-Wan made clear to young Luke in TESB)

 

As i think about it more luke was probably feeding off leia's force some to maintain the projection for as long as hed did. makes the reunion even more special. By god i do love tlj

 

In addition to what has been mentioned in the posts above, I'd add that Luke doesn't really "do" anything in terms of fighting anyone. It's one thing to appear to Ben, because that isn't to fight but to occupy Ben's time so everyone else can escape (there is a reason why he is evading every single blow, he isn't really there and neither is the lightsaber), but it might be something entirely different to appear in front of Snoke - if he could even find that place - and do something against him while not really being there.

Ben could be goaded into focusing entirely on him. Snoke might not be fooled that easily, or could quickly find out that Luke isn't really there.

 

Alao consider that Luke would have to appear to take the elevator to Snoke’s throne room for the ruse to work.
IOW, he’d have to enter the elevator with someone else, since he wouldn’t be able to physically interact with its controls.
I guess he COULD approach a stormtrooper and say “I’m Luke Skywalker. Take me to your leader”. It would be either that or get into the elevator with Rey and Kylo, which would make for an interesting scene

 

Obi-wan was a force ghost so technically could not help even if he wanted to and yoda was too old by then. Luke is technically still at the peak of his power. Not to mention the whole resistance is there as well. Luke showing up on the supremacy would have potentially allowed the resistance fleet more time to escape. So not so sure of that. And Yoda didn't say "let go of your guilt and help those you care". He is specifically telling him to make sure we do not loose Rey. So my two cents its a contradictory line.

And Luke storming the Supremacy or using his fighter to take out ships gallore would also have had a similar effect as he stares down the First Order. Esp if rumors start floating how Luke destroyed the Supremacy and killed Snoke (even if its a rumor). This also ensures a couple of hundred resistance members survive and not 10.

And frankly it would have given us the Snoke/Luke confrontation while Rey/Kylo fight each other or the red guard. And this scene may have given us more insight on Luke/snoke past history. The clash between the masters of the light and dark, much like yoda and palpatine in ROTS.
Kylo killing Snoke would have also been interesting as it could have happened while he was distracted fighting luke,

I am not a fan of TLJ or its treatment of Luke. That said I did enjoy the Crait scene. Though personally I wish that scene could have been saved for episode 9 as Luke's final hurrah. Personally we did not get enough of Luke in 7 and 8, so I think it was premature. That scene would have been more powerful and better received if saved for episode 9- as the finishing touch of the height of Luke's power and him then becoming one with the force.

 

He could sense Leia and obviously know shes in danger. Luke also has ebeough force skill to sense Snoke and Kylo. So not to hard to put two and two together to see both are close by. Likewise he has the skill to track Rey in the force.

 

Yoda was referring to losing Rey to the dark side, not physical harm. Luke did not come to Crait to save Rey.

 

There are a lot of logical inconsistencies in this movie that aren't explained. Add this one onto the pile. I see a lot of guesses so far but guesses is all that we have.

 

Well Rey being alone on the Supremacy with Kylo and Snoke meant exactly that. Either Snoke could have turned her, or she may have decided to take Kyo's offer to join him. Either way you risk Rey going to the Dark Side.
It took events from ESP to ROJ for Luke to gain the mastery and experience to resist the pull of the Dark Side/Emperor (about 18 months). So from that point it was a big risk letting Rey go as she still is relatively untrained with weeks if not only months' of experience with the force. So letting her go alone, you are risking her "going to the dark side" which countermands what yoda is telling Luke. For the record I only noticed this after multiple viewings on netflix. Its a point one would probably gloss over or not notice in your first or second viewing.

 

Re Rey going to Kylo:

It was a deliberate mirror of Luke running to Bespin to save his friends. Yoda let Luke go, and Luke learned a valuable lesson.

As for the in-story explanation? Maybe it’s the same one as Yoda had, whatever that was. I think, though, that the meta parallel was the primary consideration here, though.

Re Luke acting after Yoda’s pep-talk:

Luke became what the galaxy needed him to be on Crait.

In 9, he’ll become what Rey needs him to be.

His personal story is over, but he still has a role to play in Rey’s.

(I’d love to see some sort of direct resolution to the Luke-Snoke conflict - a showdown of sorts - but I feel that’s really beyond the scope of the ST’s focus.)

 

The very fact that Luke had a change of heart and did what he did confirms that her force journey is on the right track.

If Luke stayed out of it, the only example Rey would ever have had from Luke was staying out of the conflict, not getting involved and letting the force balance itself in the long-term. Regardless of how things played out with Snoke and Ben, Rey will have that wisdom from the great legendary jedi, the only jedi she's ever met, gnawing at her.

Luke got into the fight - it becomes clear to Rey that he is admitting he was wrong. He has passed along the lesson of his failure.

 

Luke tells Rey to her face earlier that she needs a teacher and refuses to help her. Yoda tells Luke he won't be guiding her alone when he says we cannot lose her.

I think Yoda is talking about losing in the metaphorical sense. Luke didn't lose Ben Solo to death, he lost him to the darkside. Rey doesn't need physical saving, but she needed help keeping her "jedi spirit" intact. The Force sent him the perfect student that he rejected. She put herself on the path but she could easily fall off of it if Kylo and tfo kill everyone in the resistance. Luke helping the resistance helped show Rey what it means to be a Jedi and helps keep her on the path. He and the other fg will help her become what she is meant to be.

 

Luke did teach Rey.

 

Luke didn't finish teaching her what she needed. She needed and wanted more guidance. When he said you need a teacher he was not talking about teaching why the Jedi should end( note he didn't complete those lessons either). You usually take the text literally so when Luke tells Rey what she needs, as related to him( a teacher), and then talks about her needs later, again related to him, we know what he's talking about.
"You need a teacher. I can't teach you."

Y: ... never here! Now! The need in front of your nose
L: I was weak. Unwise...
Y: Lost Ben Solo you did. Lose Rey we must not.
L: I can't be what she needs me to be!
Y: Heeded my words not, did you. Pass on what you have learned.....
That seems straight forward to me to the point that Yoda doesn't put the future of the Jedi just on Luke's shoulders but all the fg Jedi. I assume you think that Luke thinks she needs a father? Rey showed up there needing a teacher, not a father. None of the conversation makes any sense because Yoda goes on to talk about how and why Luke failed as a teacher and not a father. Was he a weak and unwise father? Then why does Yoda bring up Kylo, his failure as a teacher?

More on topic: Yoda seems to be trying to convince Luke that all of his life experiences should be passed on so that others can learn from them. Luke didn't let his failure with Ben be his end but showed( to Rey and Ben, the only people that know the full story) that they can rise no matter how far they fall.

 

Luke said he couldn’t *be* what Rey needed him to *be.*

And he *was* her teacher. That he didn’t teach her for very long is irrelevant, because Luke was talking about being something for Rey he hadn’t already been.

(Contrast: “I can’t do what she needs me to do.”)

I found it very enlightening to comb through the dialogue and identify every time the word “need” is used with regards to Rey. I did a post breaking it down but that was over a month ago, now.

The “lose Rey, we must not” thing - I took it as a practical guarantee that Luke will appear to Rey in 9, this time as, well, a functional person. My spec is that Ben Solo, feeling rejected by his parental units, hoped for that sort of relationship with Luke and never got it. (His hatred of Luke felt very personal to me - moreso than what little we saw explained, imo.) Would add some pathos to Ben’s story, too (bonus!).

 

Not to mention, Yoda specifically mentioned that Rey already had what she needed (by saving the books) to become a Jedi.

 

I think Luke is well aware that he wasn't the teacher Rey needed. Being a teacher of the information he wanted her to have does not mean he was the teacher Rey required to be a Jedi. Rey is in need of guidance that Luke was still too broken to provide. I think the use of we by yoda means this is more about teaching and that Luke will appear but that other ghosts are likely to appear as well.

That's not what he said. He said there is nothing in that library that she doesn't possess, nothing about having everything she needed. So even if we agree that he was being literal and metaphorical like we do, then that doesn't mean she has everything she needs, just everything the library could provide.

 

Rey needed “a teacher.”

Luke was “a teacher” to her.

It’s cool if you don’t think repetition of the word “need” in the script is meaningful. But word repetition is a very common literary device so I thought it worth pointing out.

Yoda meant (to Luke), I suppose, that Rey has the Jedi lore already - it’s preserved.

It’s Leia who says to Rey, at the end, “We have everything we need.” Presumably, this includes freshly Force ghosted Luke.

 

Cause apparently Rian Johnson needed yet another character to abandon Rey.

 

I think the word need is important, I just disagree that Rey's need of a teacher is past tense because of the 2( of 3) lessons she received from Luke. I also dont recall need being used in the context of a family. If anything, Rey's need of a family is past tense because she has one with Finn and BB-8( and future wise Leia and Poe). If Rey needs a Spanish teacher giving her a teacher of German won't help( though in this case Luke was more like a Latin teacher, I think). Luke wasn't the teacher she needed and that's why she felt it necessary to steal the jedi books and Luke doesn't help her. Yoda is disappointed in Luke not teaching Rey or Kylo and letting his past failures hold him back. If Luke was Rey's father, though none of the movie before it would have made any sense, Luke talking to Yoda about being Rey's father would have made sense in a "big reveal" sorta way. Luke wouldn't have to speak in code to Yoda about Rey's need of a father because no one else is there. So a "she needed me to be the father to her I never got to be to her" or something to that effect would have worked. As is, Yoda is talking about Rey and Kylo w/ Luke as their teacher and Luke is talking about Rey and Kylo and why he failed to teach them so a quick line about how he is her father makes no sense. The whole conversation is about Yoda showing the Jedi must go on, which is clearly not what Luke was teaching Rey.
Y: ... never here! Now! The need in front of your nose!( worrying about what will happen w/ Ben prevented you from helping him and stopped you from helping Rey and TR)
L: I was weak. Unwise...( talking about how he thought about killing Ben. We know this because Yoda goes directly into addressing this by mentioning Ben Solo and how he failed him)
Y: Lost Ben Solo you did. Lose Rey we must not.( talking about Luke as a teacher of the jedi way and saying Luke doesn't have to do it alone)
L: I can't be what she needs me to be!( Rey needs a father? or I can't be that teacher because of my failure)
Y: Heeded my words not, did you. Pass on what you have learned.....( also about Luke being a teacher and on Crait he is teaching both Kylo and Rey by example)

 

Why couldn't Chewie have gone back for Luke once he dropped Rey off at the Supremacy?

Luke telepathically communicates with Leia. Leia com links with Chewie on the Falcon to pick up her bro.