LotR and HP Similarities

First, let me say that I love both Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings and I'm saying absolutely nothing against either of them.

Anyways, has anyone noticed similarites between LotR and other series written later on, such as Harry Potter?

I've noticed that JKR took the name Longbottom from the Shire, but it is possible (unlikely I think though) that she got this name from somewhere else.

Her story is somewhat similar, although I've noticed that Frodo's journey can be compared to that of Harry in each book, rather than in all of his years at Hogwarts.

Also, I have a theory about certain characters, races and places symbolizing ones from LotR.
This is how I believe the species are aligned:

Hobbits ~ students of Hogwarts
Men ~ Human Adults
Black Riders/Ringwraiths/Nazgul ~ Dementors
House Elves ~ Elves
Goblins ~ Dwarves
Goblins could also possibly be meant to symbolize the orcs, though we may have the development of a new species to parallel them.

This is how I believe that the different places are meant to be aligned:

Hogsmeade/Diagon Alley ~ Bree
Leaky Cauldron/Three Broomsticks ~ Prancing Pony
Gringotts ~ Moria
Hogwarts ~ Rivendell (perhaps Middle Earth as a whole, though I doubt it)

characters:
Gandalf - Dumbledore
Grindewald = Saruman
Wormtongue - Wormtail (see the name similarity)
Tom/Voldemort = Sauron
Frodo - Harry
Sam - Ron
Merry and Pippin - the Weasley twins
Aragorn - Sirius (possibly Sirius will be returned to respectability as Aragorn did when became king)
- it's also possible for James to match with Aragorn and Lily with Arwen. the Marauders seem to be meant to match with the other members of the Fellowship)

there are many more, and it would take a while to list these all.

but I'd like to know what you think of this theory and also if you have noticed any other similarites between Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings.

 

I don?t know... I do see slight similarities.

I do love LOTR, but I never fancied reading Harry Potter (for fear of becoming an obsessed fan )

Anyway, I think most of these similarities are simply coincidence.

-jd

EDIT: I wrote something in a wrong way... I wrote this edit in a wrong way...

 

Not really.

LotR deals in archtypes older then itself and reintroduces them fresh for the next group of writers.

HP doens't really establish any new exciting ground in the realm of fantasy but it is well written and appealing.

JK Rowling has nothing to answer for except, perhaps, the dentist bills from fans gnashing their teeth waiting for Order of the Phoenix.

 

They're both hugely popular fantasy novels in the process of being adapted to the big screen. . .

 

I don't think they're close at all besides the fact that Dumbledore and Gandalf are alot alike.

People like Magic and wizards, and both these movies are exactly that. They are tons of LOTR spinoffs. Harry Potter isn't a real close one though.

 

Everybody steals from time to time. Most fantasy writers have stolen from Tolkien. Tolkein stole from Shakespeare. Shakespeare stole from Plato. The cycle goes on. As long as the stolen work isn't just re-hashed the same way and provides a new slant or story, it's all good. Harry Potter provides a story for younger children whereas LOTR is for slightly more mature audiences. What Rawlings has done is provide a new idea and stolen some older ones with great success. Thus, I have no problem with it.

 

I don't see any similarities between LotR and HP.

I think that HP has more in common with Star Wars then with LotR...

 

I remember looking at an article a few months back in the ?Sydney Morning Herald? (An Australian newspaper), and they managed to compare LOTR, HP, and SW. You could see some similarities, and I accredited that to the genre. Say you write a novel or make a movie concerning travel through hyperspace, and then your audience might relate you to another book/movie using a parallel idea. Whichever way you look at it, things resemble each other, more due the fact that everything stays ?within? each other. For example, a new creative author releases his first novel and it has women flying through space on a telephone-shaped ship ? that would become quite unrealistic.

Everything can have a relationship, except the plotlines which are way out there. I don?t watch much LOTR or HP, and I don?t know whether I?m avoiding it for false reasons or just disinterest *starts to question if she made any sense at all*

Am

 

Well, I know that it's hard for any author to have a completely original story.

The reason I have no problem with JK Rowlings is because her books are so well written and appealing that I just really like them. I like how she made everything fit together.

There was something I saw once (unfortunately I can't find it now) that showed something called either "The Hero's Journey" or "The Hero's Circle", I forget which, but either way it generalized the stories of many heros in favourite novels and created a story that says what generally happens in the story. That's what made me notice a lot more similarities. I wish I could find that thing now *sigh*

I'll admit that quite a bit of what I posted originally is quite likely coincidental.(except I think that Dumbledore is definately based on Gandalf)

The one thing that seems to me to be taken from LOTR or SW is the scene in a pub/bar/cafe. Tolkein came up with it before them (someone probably came up with it before him, but he came before SW and HP, so I'm going to say this) JKR has Harry learning important things about himself and his past in the Leaky Cauldron and the Three Broomsticks. In LOTR it's the Prancing Pony where Frodo learns of the Wraiths and discovers the danger of his quest. and then there's the cantina scene in SW. This just seems like a main element to me, and I want to know where it originated.

 

the ringwraiths and the dementors almost have the same look.

 

Well since LotR is the grandfather of all modern fantasy, I guess it does parallel HP and SW and a lot of other things as well.

 

I think that they all follow the same sorts of archetypes- young person going on a quest, from a relatively boring, mundane life, confronting supreme evil, has a menton and various travelling companions along the way.....

.....But these sorts of stories are pretty much as ancient as the rocks and hills themselves, so lots of tales have them, which I guess isn't such a surprise.

 

Most of the main characters have two eyes, a nose and a mouth.

 

The best I've heard it explained is there basically all old stories with a twist. LOTR is the quest and the war, with a twist. Instead of seeking something they seek to destroy it, and at the same time there's war going on. HP's story is just another underdog becomes savior fulfills prophecy tale and then my guess dies at the end (don't be surprised if he dies either), almost text book like no deviation. Harry seems like part Frodo Baggins, part Young King Arthur except pansier and wears glasses, nothing too original there either. And it's full of fantasy cliches, the above mentioned stuff jacked from FOTR possibly without acknowledgement (are there rumors that Krowling denies reading or knowing of LOTR? shame on her if she does). And obviously SW is good-evil-good with a twist of the 'good' son being like the catalyst, which technically happens in Lord of the Rings for one character, and you MAYBE could argue two (without spoiling anything). Except for the son part.

 

Your argument is flawed as it is impossible to be more of a pansy than Frodo Baggins.

 

Actually in terms of pansiness I'd say movie Potter and movie Frodo tie. But the books are completely different matter, obviously were talking movies though.

 

I'm comparing the stories rather than the movies or books in particular. there are definately major difference but also huge similarites.

 

*gasps* DarthBurns, don?t tell me that! *scrunches eyes shut and block ears* My fantasy is ruined

I like the points you brought up, Glockenspiel. Obviously the stories don?t resemble each other; otherwise they?d be publicly ridiculed. The characters may share some resemblance ? but when you think about it, isn?t there a link shared by everyone?

Am

 

TheEmperorsHands, the books came first. They are the stories... The movies are simply spinoffs and thus it isn't fair to compare them.

 

yes, Rogue_Product I know the books came first.... in the case of LotR, by about 50 years and I actually prefer the books, it's just cool to see the movies because it's seeing everything you've imagined become a sort of reality. I was merely responding to what Glockenspiel had said concerning the comparisons.

I noticed that there were troll sequences in both of the movies, and that's an example of a coincidence because (since they came out so closely together) there was no link there, both directors just decided to put in a troll.

 

While I see where some of these are coming from, I wholly disagree with elves=house elves. Dobby does not remotely resemble the regality that that Tolkien's elves display. They don't go around beating themselves up either.

 

oh, I completely think the house-elves are different from those of Tolkien in everything but name, I was just saying that she is creating other races as Tolkein did. Her elves are very different from Tolkien's, I agree

 

Yeah, they're super different but both very cool. I love Dobby! "Look sir, Dobby had to iron his hands." LOL!