CT Luke and Rogue Squadron

Just something I was wondering about. We see in ESB that Luke is leading Rogue Squadron on Hoth. He doesn't fight in the space battle or lead his squadron in ROTJ but we see he still has his x-wing. My question is what might his status be in Rogue Squadron in ROTJ? Do you think he would have resigned his commission or would he still be Commander Skywalker? If he is no longer a member of the squadron does he still maintain his x-wing as a loan/favor?

 

Luke took a leave of absence from Rogue Squadron after Hoth. Command of the squadron was officially given to Wedge Antilles at that point. According to the old EU, Luke did fly with them briefly during the search for Han, but other than that, he never officially participated in their activities again.

I would guess the Rebels had a surplus of X-wings, and so it didn't hurt their resources to let Luke use one for personal use.

 

I'm not sure but I think technically and after the evacuation on Hoth all Rebel units were ordered to regroup at the rendezvous point in ESB.

Basically "Commander" Skywalker went AWOL and - war hero or not - probably faced some disciplinary measures after ESB. As a result Wedge was probably promoted to Rogue leader.

Apparently he was allowed to use his X-Wing in the Han Solo rescue mission. Wonder if Luke also talked to the pilot who probably took over his X-Wing for the Battle of Endor like Solo did with Lando ("not a scratch").

 

In, I think, deleted scenes (present in the TESB comic), Luke asks Leia for permission to go. It's right before Han says "You look strong enough to pull the ears off a gundark" (movie phrasing):

C-3PO: "Master Luke! It's so good to see you functional again!"​

Luke: "Leia ... wait! ... W-what would you think if ... I went away for a while? To another system ... a place called Dagobah ... I've got to --"​

Leia: "What? That's just fine! First Han, now you! I could get more loyalty if I recruited some of those ice creatures we've trapped!"​

Han: "Ah! She's being charming again. Hi, kid! You look strong enough to wrestle a gundark!"​

 

Yes, he did ask her in the deleted ESB Scenes, but as it looks he never got a positive reply.

And that was before the Empire was attacking Hoth and decimating the military strength of the Alliance.

 

Well, in the actual deleted scene, he does tell her that he's leaving.

LUKE: "Leia… What would you think if I went away for a while?"

LEIA: "What did you say?! Where are you going?"

LUKE: "I have this… feeling. I’m not sure, really…"

LEIA: "That’s just great. Why doesn’t everyone just take off?"

LUKE: "What are you talking about?"

LEIA: "First Han, now you. When am I going to learn not to count on anyone but myself?…"

LUKE: "Han’s leaving?"

LEIA: "… I was getting along just fine before I met you two moon jockeys."

But shortly after, Han and Chewie comes in and the subject is changed. Obviously he did get permission to go.

 

A related question: In both Death Star battles, the X-wing squadron is referred to as the red group, as in "Red Leader," "Red Five," and so on.

In film, the term Rogue Group was only heard on Hoth, while flying speeders. When, and why did the term "Red" get replaced with "Rogue?"

 

sbk1234

IIRC, "colored" squadrons were a trademark for the Rebel starfighter squadrons. For the snow or sky speeders they adopted "Rogue".

Theoretically there could have been simultaneous actions of the red X-Wing squadron in space and the Rogue Squadron on ground. It just so happened that Luke was "Rogue Leader", too (or is it possible that Wedge had already become "Red Leader"?).

 

I get that, but why then was the squadron always referred to as Rogue Squadron after ROTJ, at least in EU? Even for the starfighters?

 

The squad officially became known as Rogue at some point between Yavin and Hoth, and the name stuck. Wedge temporarily revived the original name of Red for the Endor assault, as a way of honoring the deceased pilots who attacked the first Death Star.

 

timmoishere wrote

The squad officially became known as Rogue at some point between Yavin and Hoth, and the name stuck.

"Officially"? It does sound a EU conjecture to me, especially if the speeders need to be grounded for the fighters to be on a mission in space and vice versa.

If Luke were also Rogue Leader for the X-Wings on Hoth, I would have expected him to say something to his teammates upon departure.

Instead it's Wedge who says "See you at the rendezvous, Luke" which rather suggests he was in charge of the X-Wings now, i.e. Red Squadron.

Wedge temporarily revived the original name of Red for the Endor assault, as a way of honoring the deceased pilots who attacked the first Death Star.

If that were the case, why didn't the Y-Wings (Grey Squadron) belong to "Gold Squadron", honoring Tiree, Dutch, Pops and the other Y-Wing pilots that sacrificed their lives during the Battle of Yavin?

 

I gave you the correct answers. Whether you accept them or not is up to you.

 

timmoishere wrote

I gave you the correct answers. Whether you accept them or not is up to you.

How can I (or any other reader for that matter) determine whether it's "official" and "correct" if you don't provide the source?

I believe I'm familar with most of the OT George Lucas canon materials and don't recall such suggestions.

 

There's the Databank:

http://www.starwars.com/databank/wedge-antilles

After the Battle of Yavin, Wedge became a respected member of Rogue Squadron, piloting an X-wing in many battles against the Empire.

http://www.starwars.com/wedge-antilles-biography-gallery

Three years after the Battle of Yavin, Wedge continued to serve the rebel cause, having grown in skill and experience as a starfighter pilot with Rogue Squadron.


Doesn't sound like Rogue Squadron is "speeders only" there.

 

It's pretty simple. The Rogues were primarily X-wing pilots, but they opted to fly the speeders on Hoth in an effort to slow the walkers down and give the transports time to take off. Once the battle was over, the plan was for any surviving Rogue pilots to abandon their speeders, hop in their X-wings, and join the rest of the evacuees.

 

This still doesn't explain why there isn't any Rogue Squadron during the Battle of Endor.

Had anyone decided to assign "red" to a squadron in memory of the squadron that fought during the Battle of Yavin they could have done so for Grey or Green Squadron.

Just going by the actual movies there is no indication that the original X-Wing Squadron was ever dissolved.

And if I went by the "official" databank, then Dutch and Dave (!) were just pilots' monikers, but Luke, Biggs, Wedge, Porkins (actually he did have a moniker in earlier screenplays, "Piggy") and Tiree used their actual names instead?

And the databank has no entry for Gold Five / Pops "Krail" as if he doesn't exist and is just a phantom.



At least Wookieepedia has an entry, according to which "Pops" is just another moniker, too.

The attempts to justify made-up names by EU contributors which apparently were oblivious to the pilots' names provided in the screenplay and the novelization, never cease to amaze me.

If the EU names were monikers, that could be okay, but the other way round...

 

There is an explanation briefly in Lost Stars. As Luke says "Rogue Group" when they are in their speeders. There are many different "Groups" of speeders on Hoth with different leaders. Luke was the overall commander but they were split into different groups with him taking direct command over Rogue Group.

Also there were other squadrons besides the Colored Squadrons.

One Canon Squadron is of Course Corona Squadron who covered for "red, gold, and gray" squadrons while they entered into the Death Star II.

Another Canon Squadron we see briefly (Well remnants of it) are the Tiefon Yellow Aces lead by Captain Dosmit Reah, whose helmet Rey wears briefly in TFA.

So really there are other squadrons but the Rogue seems to be a group specifically for the speeders at Hoth.

Hope this helps.

 

That and after his heroics at Yavin, Alliance Command likely felt that he deserved to keep the one he'd used to destroy the Death Star. I can't remember if that X-Wing was recovered from Cloud City by Luke or not.

 

If I understand correctly, Rogue Squadron was pretty much a special forces unit put together of the best pilots from the whole Alliance Starfleet. They had no definite assignment to any particular unit, hence the "Rogue" name.. In the TESB radio adaptation, there was also a Renegade Squadron, led by Luke's immediate superior, Cmdr. Narra. Renegade gets wiped out in the first episode, so Luke is promoted to full Commander. At that point, he was already in charge of Rogue, with Wedge as Exec.

As for Luke not heading to the rendezvous point in TESB, the novelization (and, presumably, the original script) has a moment where Artoo reminds him of his orders. Luke says he's countermanding them, which he had the authority to do. Upon hearing what happened, I doubt Alliance Command would bust him, since he helped rescue Leia and, in effect, kept Vader off their backs while they regrouped.

As for ROTJ, with Luke volunteering for the strike team, Wedge was squadron leader. It was decided to rename Rogue as Red for the Battle of Endor in honor of the original Red Squadron. As for the Y-wing group, they could've changed their callsign if they wanted to, I guess.

As for Luke still having his X-wing, he still had an officer's commission, so he still had access to a ship. (Whether it was his original fighter from ANH is open for debate.) I figure he asked for a leave of absence to look for Han, and with Leia backing him up, they weren't about to refuse.

This is based on bits and pieces of EU material I've picked up on (mostly from pre-"Heir to the Empire" sources) and my own analysis. If anyone knows something that contradicts this, please let me know.

 

Thane_Kyrell wrote

One Canon Squadron is of Course Corona Squadron who covered for "red, gold, and gray" squadrons while they entered into the Death Star II.

Another Canon Squadron we see briefly (Well remnants of it) are the Tiefon Yellow Aces lead by Captain Dosmit Reah, whose helmet Rey wears briefly in TFA.

I assume that's nuCanon according to Lost Stars?

LANDO We're on our way. Red Group, Gold Group, all fighters follow me.
(laughs)
Told you they'd do it!

Either Lando ordered "all fighters" to follow him or only those of the red and gold group.

Why then should "Corona" squadron cover for Grey Squadron? Either all squadrons went in there or only Red and Gold Squadron.

 

"Follow me" to the Death Star - and then cover him so other TIEs don't chase him down and stop him.


Some TIEs did pursue Lando, but I'm guessing a lot more would if there hadn't been other squadrons flying cover.

 

You gotta love the term "moon jockey"!

 

Yeah red squadron and gold squadron were inside the death star to blow it up but you eve see in ROTJ not ever fighter went in.

Yellow Squadron stayed outside to look for ships escaping and Corona Squadron covered the 2 groups who went in. Gold group and red group.

If you remember when Lando has them report in it is red, gray, Green. But there were more. He only took red and gold in.

 

According to the Canon wookieepedia article on Poe Cameron his mother Shara Bey was an a-wing pilot. When she left after Endor she was given her a-wing as a compensation package. Poe learned to fly on it.

Maybe they did that with Luke too.

 

Thane_Kyrell wrote

Yeah red squadron and gold squadron were inside the death star to blow it up but you eve see in ROTJ not ever fighter went in.

Yellow Squadron stayed outside to look for ships escaping and Corona Squadron covered the 2 groups who went in.

I really don't think I can buy these nuCanon speculations. Why should the Alliance be concerned with ships escaping the Death Star while they still fight Palpatine's fleet? And why would Death Star personnel be evacuating the battle station just because the shield is down?

And where was that cover of "Corona" Squadron? Several TIE fighters followed Gold and Red Squadron, I would have then expected fighters from "Corona" Squadron to follow those TIE fighters and destroy these, especially since their amount equalled the Rebel fighters and they had the better firing position.

Ships entering Death Star:

1. X-Wing (Red Leader)
2. A-Wing (Gold Squadron?)
3. Millennium Falcon (Gold Leader)
4. A-Wing (Gold Squadron?)
5. Y-Wing (Gold Squadron?)
6. X-Wing (Red Squadron)
7. 3 TIE fighters
8. 3 TIE interceptors