Luke was the chosen one (not Anakin) WHAT???

(I'm sure this topic has been discussed at length over the past 27 years, but here's my take)

Luke is the last hope because he's the only one (save Leia) who could turn his father back to the light side.

Lucas sees a "savior" as the central figure of the saga:
http://www.starwars.com/episode-iv/explore/classic/2000/01/classic20000131.html

So who really is the savior? I know that Lucas has said that Star Wars is the story of Anakin's rise and fall and redemption, but what does the story really say about a savior? Don't those who are redeemed need a redeemer to redeem them and those who are saved need a savior to save them?

I tend to think that Luke was the chosen one if the chosen one is the savior (a.k.a. the son of the sun). Without Luke standing up to the Emperor and choosing NOT TO FIGHT, Vader would not have turned to the light side. I realize that Anakin was the product of immaculate conception, but Luke, in my opinion, remains the finest example of what the Jedi stood for. He had his chance to strike down Palpatine/Emperor, but chose not to. Jedi only act in defense, not offense. Luke refused to give in to the dark side, hatred, rage.

Anakin/Vader failed to exhibit these Jedi qualities time and time again. Only at the end was Anakin saved.

AND the most important clue as to Luke's true role comes from Anakin/Vader himself at the end of ROTJ.

(this is from memory, sorry for inaccuracies)

"We can still SAVE you father," says Luke, believing that Vader's injuries are treatable.

"You already have son, you already have..." says dying Anakin.

NOW: Who is the savior the prophecy speaks of? If Anakin is the savior, then Luke is the savior of the Anakin (remember, Anakin has aknowledged Luke as his savior). If Luke is the savior in the prophecy, then Luke is the "Son of the Sun" mentioned in the early drafts of Star Wars.

If Luke had been killed before ROTJ it is possible that the other twin could have turned Vader, but Lucas set the story up so that any number of newly trained Jedi or a reconstituted Jedi Order could not have defeated Vader and the Emperor. It took Anakin's redemption through his son's selfless act to save the galaxy. Upon seeing his son Luke being killed by the Emperor, Vader acts in DEFENSE of Luke and turns to the light side. Without Luke's courageous act of throwing down his light sabre, Anakin would not have been saved, and the galaxy would not have been saved either.

THE CENTRAL AND CLIMACTIC MOMENT IN ALL OF THE STAR WARS SAGA WAS WHEN LUKE THROWS DOWN HIS LIGHT SABRE AND REFUSES TO FIGHT AT THE END OF ROTJ. EVERYTHING HINGED ON LUKE'S DECISION. IF LUKE HAD CONTINUED TO FIGHT HE WOULD HAVE FALLEN TO THE DARK SIDE AND WOULD HAVE KILLED VADER/ANAKIN AND TAKEN HIS PLACE. VADER WOULD HAVE BEEN SIMPLY ANOTHER "DARTH."

Star Wars is a modern myth, and in this myth, the son redeems the father and saves the galaxy through a courageous and selfless act. In my view, Luke was the savior Lucas had in mind all along.

(...oh god... I'm a ******* nerd...oh...god.....)

EV Edit: For future reference, please * out the entire word.

 

He had his chance to strike down Palpatine/Emperor, but chose not to

Ahh don't know what movie you were watching but he definitely took a swing at the Emperor there

Anakin brought balance to the force by killing Palpatine, the last Sith. Hence, he is the chosen one. Luke (and Leia) provided him with the reasons that's all. It was their destinies combined.

 

An additional point in reference to the "Son of the Sun" quote:

The second and third draft of the script for Star Wars began with the following quote: "And in time of greatest despair there shall come a savior and he shall be known as: THE SON OF THE SUN"

Anakin did not arrive in the time of greatest despair. He arrived prior to TPM, which had its share of menaces, but people were not despairing yet. The time of greatest despair would fit better with the time at which Luke was born, at the birth of the Empire and the destruction of the Jedi.


(sorry for the ******* ******* ***** *** other than ******* in ******** ****** and you can **** ******** ****** ****** ****** ** * ******** ****** rotate ****** ***.)

 

I take your point and if the 2nd/3rd drafts were the final Star Wars then i'd agree with you. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your point of view, the entire story changed and now there is more than enough evidence, even from Lucas himself, saying that Anakin is the chosen one.

 

It is simply a "but for" test: But for Luke's act of laying down his sabre, Anakin would not have killed the emperor.

But I rest my case on Anakin's words at the end, where he says that Luke saved him. Was Anakin merely being nice to his son with those words? I don't think so - they are some of the most important words spoken in the whole saga: LUKE SAVED ANAKIN. The real victory was Luke refusing to turn to the dark side (sort of like Jesus refusing Satan's temptations). Anakin was redeemed by his son. Like I said before, Luke could have killed Vader and taken his place. Luke was stronger than Vader (not just because he had him beat in sword combat), but because he was strong enough to resist the temptations of the dark side. Luke bested his father in both physical combat as well as moral courage and emotional strength.

Sorry I confused the plot a little bit - As I recall the Emperor said something like "strike me down, give in to your hatred." Anyway it seemed that the Emperor knew that Luke was the special one, and so did Darth Vader, asking Luke to join with him to rule the galaxy in ESB.

Furthermore, the cheering at the end of the Special Edition ROTJ "Son of the sun, son of the sun..." from the crowds in celebration on various planets is more likely celebrating the hero Luke, not the darkest villian of the galaxy, Darth Vader. Can you imagine Gerbles killing Hitler and then the British or American's chanting Gerbles' name in the streets in celebration? No way! The public would never cheer a mass murderer like Gerbles or Darth Vader no matter how enlightened the public was. Darth Vader has to forever be seen as pure evil in the minds of the general populace of the Star Wars galaxy.

And here is something else to think about: Nobody but the most open-minded viewer who saw ROTJ back in 1983 thought Vader was the hero. They saw him as a sad, beaten man who killed the Emperor with a cheap shot while his son courageously stood up to the dark side.

 

Couple of things:

Star Wars is big on the idea of Destiny. It was Anakins destiny to rid the galaxy of the Sith. It was Lukes destiny to confront Vader. Therefore, in confronting Vader, Luke did help Vader turn back to the lightside but Luke himself couldn't have defeated the Emperor. That was left to Anakin.

Your idea about the view of 1983 people is correct. However, there was no mention of the chosen one until the prequels. Nothing about a vergance that would bring balance to the force in the entire OT. The entire saga is about Anakin, not Luke.

 

i totally agree with darth_falcon. Annie IS the chosen one. Luke and leia, his children were there to enforce his destiny. Thats the 'it is our children who redeems us' theme lucas brought upon. Luke participated in the heroics of death of palpy but if it wasnt for Anakin, none of the desth star II scene wud ever take place. None of star wars, wud take place!
Not acknowledging Anakin as the chosen one is star wars blasphemy!!

 

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, WeerDoomed. It's true that Mace Windu, Yoda, Qui-gon, and Obi-wan all say that Anakin is the Chosen One. But I think they don't really understand the full implication of what that means, and they would probably admit that fact. Prophesizing the future, for the Jedi, seems to be pretty hard to do. I have to use the obvious Yoda quote here:
"Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future."
The extent of the prophecy's words seems to be that he will be conceived of the Force, and will bring the Force back into balance. If you look at the first part of the prophecy, then Anakin MUST be the Chosen One, since Luke wasn't conceived in that way. But still, I do think "the Chosen One" refers more to Luke, and this is why: a lot of times when prophecy is involved in a story, especially in ancient Greek plays, the prophecy does come true, but the characters misunderstand it at first. When a prophecy is really ambiguous and only about 2 lines long, like the Jedi's Chosen One prophecy, it becomes really hard to tell exactly what it means. My theory is that Anakin and Luke are both part of it. Anakin was conceived of the Force, but his actions did not create balance in the Force. However, Anakin fathered Luke, who DID bring the Force into balance. If Anakin did not have offspring, the prophecy would not have been fulfilled. Basically what I think is that the prophecy extends into Luke's life, even if it doesn't say that specifically. Indirectly, Anakin does bring the Force back into balance. But Luke is the one who makes the decision to defy the Emperor, not give in to the Dark Side, and by doing this, he saves Anakin's soul. Anakin then finds the courage to overthrow the Emperor, and the balance is restored. Luke and Anakin are key to each other's actions and the fulfillment of the prophecy.

 

BLASPHEMY!!!

Maybe Obi-Wan would say that from a certain point of view I'm correct? Hmmm?

The closest popular myth to Darth Vader's journey that I know about is the Biblical story of the Prodigal's son, except in this instance the father is Luke and the son is Anakin. It's the Christian ethos of forgiveness and redemption - No matter what you do, or how far you stray from God (the light side of the force) you can return. Vader showed that the old belief of the Jedi (Yoda and Obi-Wan) that once you turn to the dark side "forever will it [rule your destiny]" is not necessarily true. Sin and forgiveness. The Prodigal's son was hated by his good brother, but a party was thrown on the son's return by the forgiving father (Luke or God maybe). Vader was a vile war criminal who murdered and enslaved millions (taking part in the destruction of a whole planet, Alderan!), not unlike the evil figures of Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Idi Amin, Stalin, Hitler, (and dare I say Saddam Hussain?) etc. Lucas's story of redemption is shocking: Imagine a story of the redemption of Hitler. Calling it radical would be an understatement.

Vader is nearly pure evil, and he was saved and welcomed back to the light side as the Prodigal did for his son.

Luke = Prodigal
Anakin = returning, forgiven son
Light Side of the Force = God

So maybe Vader/Anakin overcame the darkside (sin) but it was only through the "grace" of Luke's belief in him and Luke's forgiveness of his father's straying from the light side that allowed this redemption.

A further point: In my view, Star Wars is about internal, spiritual wars primarily. Vader's victory was not accomplished upon killing the Emperor, but upon returning to the light side of the force. Once Anakin had turned back to the light side, the victory was sealed. The matter of hurling the Emperor down into the abyss was a direct manifestation and consequence of his spiritual victory over the dark side made possible through Luke's role as savior.

I would argue, from a literary point of view, it would be richer to think that the act of Vader turning from the dark side of the force would be much more difficult than killing the Emperor. Even the way in which Vader kills the Emperor was done while the Emperor was distracted. Vader surprised him! Killing the Emperor didn't seem very difficult compared to the internal struggle evident in Vader as he watched Luke being zapped by force lightning.

 

Vader is nearly pure evil

hmmm, he 's just a confused child who has no one else in the world. He fears more than he hates.(refering very closely to ep III footages, he looks more afraid than angry)

And i agree with weer_doomed about the BLASPHEMY!
for the final time, it DOEST matter who DID wad to overTHROW(hehe) the emperor. Cos the chosen one is the one who DOES the actual balancing. if ure so keen on luke being the chosen one why dun u enthrone the emperor with that tittle. Since he did DO something, he DIED! (if u dun understand that that was sarcasm mind u)
Long live the chosen one!!

 

After seeing ROTS, I'm further convinced that Luke is the chosen one based on the conversation between Yoda, Mace and Obi-Wan in the shuttle regarding the prophecy. That was a spoiler

By the way, ROTS was fantastic!!! I saw it on a digital screen this morning. HURRAY!

 

Another Prodigal's son parallel:

Obi-Wan says in ROTS that he considered Anakin his brother. This is very interesting.

The brother of the Prodigal's son was jealous of his brother and didn't believe that the lost son should return or be welcomed back. This is exactly how Obi-Wan treats Anakin. After Anakin's fall, it was Obi-Wan who refused to believe that Anakin could return from the dark side. Luke (the Prodigal) welcomed Anakin (the Prodigal's son) back.

Why is this Prodigal's son stuff important? Because the story is complex - Who is the hero in the story of the Prodigal's son? Well, it isn't the son (Anakin), and it isn't the brother (Obi-Wan). So it leaves the Prodigal father (in this case, Luke) who chooses to welcome his son back, redeeming him when he could just as easily and justly turned his son away. This is the act that brings balance to the force. The victory over the Sith was a spiritual and internal one. Tossing the Emperor into the abyss was a mere result of Luke redeeming Anakin.

 

After seeing RotS, I'm further convinced Anakin is the Chosen One.
I can share my reasons with you on Monday, when the movie is not protected by our spoiler policy anymore.

 

The Chosen One is supposed to bring balance to the Force by destroying the Sith and, well, Anakin Skywalker destroyed the Sith. Go figure.

 

"You refer to the propecy of the one who will bring balance to the force." You've added the words "by destroying the Sith" on your own. Make the same mistake as the Jedi Council, you do.

 

Well, he's not wrong. He's just not entirely correct

but I think this leads us to RotS dialogue, which has no place yet here

 

Devils advocate

It is luke. as early as ep I the idea of Anakin being chosen one the prohecy spoke of is not fully recognized by the Jedis (Anakins level of fear is often questioned). Also, throughout the saga it is constantly mention by Yoda and others that "once you start down the path of the dark side, forever it will consume your destiny" (I am paraphrasing). I think the Jedi counsel was mislead by Anakins strong relationship with the force, but could not see that it was actually his son that would save the good, or light side. After all, it seems like it is pretty easy to turn from light side to dark side, but only Luke was ever able to bring anyone back to the light. Anakin may be the focus of the story, but IMO, Luke is the chosen one.

 

Exactly what Darth-Guy said, plain and simple

No one taught bringing balance to the force would come at the expense of the death of 99.7 percent of the jedi's but it happened

Vader killed Siddious

took him years and the experience of many innocent lives

but the prophecy was right.

 

Maybe Anakin did balance the Force by leaving two great Jedi and two Great Sith in the Galaxy, an equal chalange and then the Jedi unbalanced it by training another, then two dying, leaving one Jedi and two Sith, then killing one of the Sith and turning the other to the light before he died. *wise nod*