Luminara Unduli's form?

What lightsaber form does Luminara Unduli use?

Also, is there a list anywhere that compiles all the Jedi's lightsaber forms?

 

I'm curious as well, but I really don't know... I'm not sure if it has been established. We can rule out Form II and VII. I also doubt it is Form I or III. I also don't think it is Form V. That leaves IV or VI, and based on watching her in AOTC, I would venture an educated guess... Form IV. This is a good site that documents the seven forms:
http://jediarchives.bejedi.com/index.php?c=fighting_styles

 

Good site, but I meant a list of which Jedi use what lightsaber form.

 

Well off the top of my head...

Form I: Kit Fisto, every youngling
Form II: Count Dooku, Exar Kun, many old Jedi and Sith
(old as in a few thousand years ago)
Form III: Obi-Wan Kenobi (Post TPM)
Form IV: Yoda, Qui-Gon Jinn, Obi-Wan Kenobi (TPM and prior), others-
Form V: Darth Vader, Anakin Skywalker, Luke Skywalker
(Luke switches... Forms weren't around then, but it is V at times)
Form VI: Most Jedi. Its their standard, diplomat's form. Coleman Trebor, probably. See how well it worked...
Form VII: Mace Windu, Sora Bulq, Depa Billaba, Darth Maul (a commensurate Sith form)

There are others, but those are the main players...

 

Darth Maul used Form VII?? I thought it was a modified version of Form III..

 

Darth Maul used a modified Sith version of fighting which was the origin for Form VII. So, FACPOV, he did use Form VII.

Also, in EU:

Form Zero(Yes, it exists): Jacen Solo
Form I: Younglings
Form II: Kam Solusar, Corran (from I, Jedi, this seems to be the appropriate Form)
Form III: Hmm...
Form IV: Anakin Solo, Jaina Solo
Form V: Kyp Durron, I'd think
Form VI: Not sure
Form VII: Luke Skywalker (TUF)

 

"Darth Maul used a modified Sith version of fighting which was the origin for Form VII."

But how would Windu know about Sith forms of fighting? Rather, I think Windu and Bulq created it with a solid knowledge of the previous 6. Luke Skywalker's form VII is implied in The Unifying Force but is no means certain. Mace Windu and Sora Bulq (the creators of the form) were the only instructors to teach it, so it seems impossible for Luke to have learned it. He used something similar, but I wouldn't call it Form VII exactly. I would agree that Kyp would be close to Form V... Form 0?? Where did you hear of this?? I would agree that Anakin resembles Form IV as well. However, I feel the forms of the old Jedi don't apply as definitely to the New Jedi Order. Luke would certainly have learned from old holocrons, but he likely taught a different style of fighting, one more personal to each student. Luke was never taught any of the forms; his training and fighting style was improvised and ad lib, so how could teach his students these precise forms? I, Jedi provides some insight into lightsaber instruction but does not mention any of the forms. I think parallels can certainly be linked to the old forms, but I would be hesitant to say that they use a specific form. Anakin Solo has an athletic style similar to Form IV, but there is no proof that it is definitively this form. Similarly, Luke's tremendous fighting style in TUF resembles Form VII, but since he was not taught it, it is probably not the form at its purest.

 

Form 0 is combat with an unlit lightsaber. Knowing when to fight, and when not fight, basically.

 

What lightsaber form does Luminara Unduli use?

A W-9G filled out in triplicate

 

"Form I: Kit Fisto, every youngling"

I didn't know Fisto used it. But yeah, untrained saber-wielders tend to use it.

"Form II: Count Dooku, Exar Kun, many old Jedi and Sith
(old as in a few thousand years ago)"

Exar Kun uses Form II? PPOR, please. I don't think it can be fitted to a 2-bladed saber, as it's based on fencing (another name for the form is lightsaber fencing).

"Form III: Obi-Wan Kenobi (Post TPM)"

Well, just nearly every Jedi Knight and quite a few Masters used this in the PT era, as they didn't have to deal with hand-to-hand combat.

"Form IV: Yoda, Qui-Gon Jinn, Obi-Wan Kenobi (TPM and prior), others- "

It's relatively unused, particularly after Qui-Gon's death, because its acrobatics are too tough to do properly for most people.

"Form V: Darth Vader, Anakin Skywalker, Luke Skywalker
(Luke switches... Forms weren't around then, but it is V at times) "

Luke uses V mainly in the movies, but uses VI and VII in the EU as he becomes a Master. Anakin Skywalker (at least in AotC) uses VI, I belive, as evidenced by the double saber competence.

"Form VI: Most Jedi. Its their standard, diplomat's form. Coleman Trebor, probably. See how well it worked..."

Many PT era Masters use this, a combination of I, II, III, and V. (Or maybe it's II, III, IV, and V. I don't remember.)

"Form VII: Mace Windu, Sora Bulq, Depa Billaba, Darth Maul (a commensurate Sith form) "

Wrong here. You're mixing up Vaapad with Form VII here. There are a few others who use Form VII, most notably Luke, and possibly Kyp (if you view it as a mindset as well as a Form, he uses it in Rebel Dream).

"Form Zero(Yes, it exists): Jacen Solo"

True. For actual combat, he uses III, I believe (it's the most defensive).

"Form II: Kam Solusar, Corran (from I, Jedi, this seems to be the appropriate Form)"

They were teaching II in I, Jedi, yes, but I think in practice that Corran uses III and VI (VI for hand-to-hand and III for ranged, taken from DT and I,J.)

"Form III: Hmm..."

Like I said, Jacen. Luke really doesn't like it, I think, because he's grown up fighting saber-wielders, so he views it as impractical probably.

"Form IV: Anakin Solo, Jaina Solo"

Jaina, yes. I always thought of Anakin as using a mix of IV's acrobatics and V's power, which is really like Form VI, but I could be wrong.

"Form V: Kyp Durron, I'd think"

Form VII, or some variant thereof, for Kyp I think (see above). Luke still uses it some, and I wouldn't be surprised if Kam does as well.

"Form VI: Not sure"

Hmm. I wouldn't be surprised if Saba and Tesar use VI; it really suits them well personality-wise.

"Form VII: Luke Skywalker (TUF)"

He has to have used it before TUF, but him, and I think Kyp would have at least started to learn it.

"But how would Windu know about Sith forms of fighting? Rather, I think Windu and Bulq created it with a solid knowledge of the previous 6. "

Windu and Bulq did not create Form VII, they created a sub-form called Vaapad. It is a combination of the rest, combined with insane speed.

"Luke Skywalker's form VII is implied in The Unifying Force but is no means certain."

He's using VII but not Vaapad. That's nearly certain, unless you can tell me what he is using that wouldn't be Juyo.

"Mace Windu and Sora Bulq (the creators of the form) were the only instructors to teach it, so it seems impossible for Luke to have learned it."

Once again, holocrons would have knowledge of Form VII, but not Vaapad. Plus, I think Depa, being on the council, probably had a Padawan, who may have learned some Vaapad, so she may have tought it as well.

"Form 0?? Where did you hear of this??"

It's philosophy, the "knowing when to fight is the hardest part of warfare" type of belief.

"However, I feel the forms of the old Jedi don't apply as definitely to the New Jedi Order."

Luke learned I, III, and V, at the least, from Yoda and Ben. He probably knows V-II as well, but I won't go into that. Basing on his acrobatic training and what he does in RotJ, I think he als

 

---"Exar Kun uses Form II? PPOR, please. I don't think it can be fitted to a 2-bladed saber, as it's based on fencing."

I don't remember the source, but it makes perfect sense. Kun built the double-bladed lightsaber as a Sith, but for most of his life he used a single-bladed saber. Forms I and II would have been the only choices (4000 BBY), and I sincerely doubt Exar Kun used Form I!

---"Well, just nearly every Jedi Knight and quite a few Masters used this in the PT era, as they didn't have to deal with hand-to-hand combat."

Not exactly. It was Form VI that was used by nearly all the Jedi.

---"It's relatively unused, particularly after Qui-Gon's death, because its acrobatics are too tough to do properly for most people."

I don't completely agree; in fact, I see it used quite a lot. Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Yoda... However, many Jedi like Obi-Wan did switch to form III after Qui-Gon's death, confronted with his inadequacy against defending himself.

---"Luke uses V mainly in the movies, but uses VI and VII in the EU as he becomes a Master."

Forms similar to V and VII, but not these forms exactly.

---"Anakin Skywalker (at least in AotC) uses VI, I belive, as evidenced by the double saber competence."

Anakin does not use Form VI; rather, he uses Form V.

---"Wrong here. You're mixing up Vaapad with Form VII here."

Direct quote from Shatterpoint:
Yoda: [About Vaapad] "Also a nickname it is, given by students, for the seventh form of lightsaber combat."

---"There are a few others who use Form VII, most notably Luke, and possibly Kyp (if you view it as a mindset as well as a Form, he uses it in Rebel Dream)."

There is no evidence that Luke uses the pure form itself; rather, he has a style that resembles Form VII. Luke would have had to know Mace Windu, and this is highly unlikely.

---"I always thought of Anakin as using a mix of IV's acrobatics and V's power, which is really like Form VI"
Not really...

---""Form VII: Luke Skywalker (TUF)"
Again, not exactly possible. Are you suggesting Luke took secret lessons with Mace Windu's spirit? How else would he have known Form VII??

 

I'm doing this with as few quotes as possible, as the back and forward buttons on my browser have been making things go away.

As to where and how Luke learned the 7 major forms, that (with some conjecture) is in my previous post.

1. Exar Kun probably used II when he had 1 saber, yes, but that was the minority of his career and he had most of his fights with 2 blades and his adapted and otherwise unused quarterstaff-lightsaber style.

2. Form VI is used almost exclusively by those who have learned the other forms and mastered how to use them together, though a few prodigies (at least, Anakin) seem to learn it easily. Not that many people make that time commitment, though a lot of Masters do. III is much more common than VI, because it's much easier and makes it easier for the user to survive. VI isn't that common.

3. You just named the only 3 OJO Jedi I can think of who used Form IV. One's dead because of it, one changed because it was inadequate, and the other is the only one it's good for because of anatomical necessity. I can't think of anyone else named that has used it, and most of the younger generation turned to III after TPM.

4. Anakin knows V, and I expect he will use it in Episode III (no idea or information, just guessing), but in AotC he mainly or totally uses VI. V is characterized by big slashes and overhand whacks, like the JK "Strong" style. Anakin is using smaller, faster slashes, though with more power than II, III, or IV, which is where you can see V influencing VI. To put the icing on the cake, VI is the only form that can involve 2 sabers, so Anakin has to know it and practice it to be able to pick up and use 2 sabers as well as he did.

5. It's a continuity error, unfortunately. They are different things; see "Fightsaber" or CUSWE (and WotC website might have more) for more details. Or look here for more details.

6. Once again, Form VII and Vaapad are different, and Mace didn't invent VII, only Vaapad. It's very possible, if a little unlikely, that in 30 years of searching the galaxy for ways to improve himself he came across records or a holocron. Nothing out and out states it, but it's the only real fit for what he's doing in TUF.

7. "Not really... "

Please elaborate.

8. A. Mace Windu could come back like in ESB: Infinities. B. Form VII isn't exclusive to Windu, so Luke could have learned it somewhere else.

 

---"Exar Kun probably used II when he had 1 saber, yes, but that was the minority of his career and he had most of his fights with 2 blades and his adapted and otherwise unused quarterstaff-lightsaber style."

I agree that he had more fights with the double-bladed lightsaber, but he actually spent more time as a Jedi. As a padawan he challenged Vodo Siosk-Baas with one lightsaber, and used two sabers at one point against his master. Certainly all his training was in Form II.

---"III is much more common than VI, because it's much easier and makes it easier for the user to survive. VI isn't that common."

I disagree. Form III was common, but Form VI was the standard form for the Jedi. It was the most common and least effective.

---"...most of the younger generation turned to III after TPM."

I agree.

---"Anakin knows V, and I expect he will use it in Episode III (no idea or information, just guessing), but in AotC he mainly or totally uses VI. V is characterized by big slashes and overhand whacks, like the JK "Strong" style."

No, Anakin uses Form V. You're oversimplifying Form V, its not just big slashes and whacks; rather, it is an aggressive style based on strength and combativeness. Anakin's form. He does not use Form VI.

---"Once again, Form VII and Vaapad are different, and Mace didn't invent VII, only Vaapad."

OK, your word means more than Matthew Stover's.

---"I always thought of Anakin as using a mix of IV's acrobatics and V's power, which is really like Form VI."

Form VI is a generic form that combines all the forms but II and VII. It is basic, diplomatic, and relatively ineffective. Many of the Jedi who die at Geonosis use Form VI.

---"A. Mace Windu could come back like in ESB: Infinities."

But that never happened...

---"B. Form VII isn't exclusive to Windu, so Luke could have learned it somewhere else."

Windu was the only teacher of Form VII. Furthermore, he was its creator and the only Jedi to ever truly master it (one could argue Depa Billaba as well). Some people deny he created it, but I consider Shatterpoint as canon as any other written source. Yoda: [about vaapad] "Also a nickname it is, given by students, for the seventh form of lightsaber combat."

 

I disagree. Form III was common, but Form VI was the standard form for the Jedi. It was the most common and least effective.

Well, I doubt it was the most common, considering that it took roughly 10 years to properly learn, but that's just me. If you're going to keep disagreeing, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

No, Anakin uses Form V. You're oversimplifying Form V, its not just big slashes and whacks; rather, it is an aggressive style based on strength and combativeness. Anakin's form. He does not use Form VI.

Tell you what: I'll go watch that scene, then edit the post accordingly. I'm going to point out for the thrid time that at least for part of the duel, he can't be using V: he's either making it up, or he's using VI, the only form that involves the use of 2 sabers . (Well, VII might, but it's not a technique for that form.)

OK, your word means more than Matthew Stover's.

I'm going to ignore the sarcasm and direct you to the other thread and everything else (like Insider and WotC, to start), which gives a different name and details for Form VII. Unfortunately, the forum's resident contiuity guru is on vacation (I believe) so he can't help us out. Regardless, that part of Shatterpoint is incorrect.

Form VI is a generic form that combines all the forms but II and VII. It is basic, diplomatic, and relatively ineffective. Many of the Jedi who die at Geonosis use Form VI.

It involves a little of II, it can be extremely effective in the right hands, and is not basic, it's actually more complex than 4 of the other 6. I quoted CUSWE to point out that it requires years of study; it's not simple. And the reason that the Jedi died at Geonosis isn't the wrong form, it's that they weren't very good at all. Obi-Wan is using Form III (inferior, in my opinion) and doesn't die, even in a saber duel, because he's more skilled than some VI users, like Trebor.

But that never happened...

1. I was kidding, somewhat.
2. It's still a slight precedent; using the idea in Infinities means that they think they might be able to use it in a future canon story.

Windu was the only teacher of Form VII. Furthermore, he was its creator and the only Jedi to ever truly master it (one could argue Depa Billaba as well). Some people deny he created it, but I consider Shatterpoint as canon as any other written source.

Sora Bulq, Darth Sidious*, and Depa Billaba all tought a little of Form VII. He created Vaapad, which is a set of manuevers inside VII, much like V-II or VI-II, variant sub-forms. It's not an entire form. Shatterpoint is canon, but it has an error in it, just like Battle Surgeons mixes up Stark and Great, and Changing Seasons mixes up 2 and 12. It's a mistake, and other sources prove it's wrong.

Yoda: [about vaapad] "Also a nickname it is, given by students, for the seventh form of lightsaber combat."

I could put my shoe in the oven and call it a biscuit; that doesn't make it a biscuit. It's an incorrect nickname, and the book is incorrect.

*Sidious certainly could have tought Luke during DE.

 

"It's not an entire form. Shatterpoint is canon, but it has an error in it, just like Battle Surgeons mixes up Stark and Great."

Yeah, you're probably right. Sorry if my sarcasm upset you. I'd say you make good points and you're correct about form VII. I was misinformed after relying too much on Shatterpoint. The only thing I would still disagree with is Form VI. You're right that it takes over 10 years to learn, but most of the sources i've read list it as the most common form. And I still don't think Luke could have known Form VII...

 

It took me awhile and some debating and research to believe that Luke uses Vaapad in TUF, and I could be wrong about III vs. VI, it's just that III makes more sense as the more common form.

Whoops, just realized I forgot to watch the duel from AotC. I'll do it now or in the morning.

EDIT: Just watched Scene 45 (Obi-Wan and Anakin vs. Dooku) on the DVD, and we're both right. Anakin is using distinct 2 saber elements of Form VI (rarely attacking with both, using one as a parrying blade and one for attack), but when he uses his second saber it's definitely Form V. Heavy slashes.

EDIT 2: Just realized that this was one of the few debates I've had on the JC where both parties wound up mostly agreeing and still cordial.

 

"EDIT 2: Just realized that this was one of the few debates I've had on the JC where both parties wound up mostly agreeing and still cordial."

Heck I find no point in being a jerk... You make good points, and I'd be foolish to argue for the sake of arguing. I guess we're both calm. at peace. passive. using the force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.