Mace Windu defeated Palpatine, not Darth Sidious.

For all you 'Light Siders', Mace Windu did, in fact, defeat Chancellor Palpatine during thier bout in the Chancellors' Chamber. I know this is an ongoing battle between movie and Jedi and Sith fans. Windu did not, however, defeat Darth Sidious. I realize they are the same person but remember, Sidious is Palpatine, not the other way around. With that said, I want you to look at the conversation between Palpatine and Mace when the Jedi come in to arrest Chancellor Palpatine. Palpatine reminds me of those exorcism movies where the girl will act and talk normal, then the demon makes her shout and talk in a crazy voice. Look at Sidious as the demon and Palpatine as the host.

PALPATINE: (Cordially. In his best chief-of-state voice.): Master Windu. I take it General Grievous has been destroyed then. I must say your here sooner than expected.
WINDU: In the name of the Galactic Senate of the Republic, you are under arrest Chancellor.
SIDIOUS: Are you threatening me, Master Jedi?
WINDU: The Senate will decided your fate.
SIDIOUS: I am the Senate!
WINDU: Not yet.
PALPATINE: Its treason then.

If you look at it in this instance, Sidious (the demon) comes out when he realizes Mace Windu (the priest in this example) knows who he is. He then reverts back into Palpatine to for the treason line. That having been said,as they are battling, it is between Mace Windu and Darth Sidious until he senses Anakin and he reverts back into Palpatine. Here he allows Mace to kick Palpatine so he loses his lightsaber so he is defenseless and makes it look like Mace is trying to kill him.

PALPATINE: Anakin, I told you it would come to this. I was right. The Jedi are taking over.
WINDU: The oppression of the Sith will never return. You have lost.
SIDIOUS: No! No! No! You will die! (Shoots lighting from his hands.)
PALPATINE: He's a traitor.
WINDU: No, he is the traitor.
PALPATINE: I have the power to save the ones you love. You must choose.
WINDUon't listen to him, Anakin!
PALPATINE: Don't let him kill me. I can't hold it any longer. I'm..I'm...weak. I'm too weak. Anakin, help me! Help me! I can't...hold out...any longer.
WINDU: I am going to end this once and for all.
ANAKIN: You can't. He must stand trial.
WINDU: He has control of the Senate and the Courts. He's to dangerous to be left alive.
ANAKIN: It's not the Jedi way. He must live.
PALPATINE: Please don't.
ANAKIN: I need him.
PALPATINE: Please don't!
ANAKIN: No! (Chops off Mace's hand. Mace screams in agony.)
SIDIOUS: Power! Unlimited Power!!!! (Uses lightining to propel Mace to his death.)

Okay. From this point on, we already know he is and remains Darth Sidious. Now, look at this scene as almost the scene from The Exorcist with the puking and everything. The Lightining attack is like the puke. It was a retaliation out of hatred on Mace's part, just as the demon on the priests part. Sidous holds off allowing Palpatine to play for a little while. We all know the outcome. Sidious, not Palpatine, kills Mace Windu. Looking at it from this point of view is the reason I believe Mace did beat Palpatine but only because Sidious let him. I know of George Lucas' passion for movies and noir, so maybe the Exorcist or other literature helped make up the character development of Sidious and Palpatine. Let me know what you think.

(Sorry this is so long. Its just a point I really wanted to make and get feedback on. I needed to use quotes so you would know the differance of Palpatine's lines versus Sidious' lines.)

 

Interesting point, but I think slightly too involved to come from GL. I would agree that there is a back and forth here between Palps and Sidious, but I think the fact that he switches so easily means that it was both Palps and Sidious fighting the whole time, and he could use either, when it was to his advantage.

 

Maybe Palpatine is possessed by some ancient sith demon spirit while his voice changes as he is knighting Anakin as Darth Vader.

But I don't think Palpatine is possessed all of the time when he is in Sith mode as Sidious. Palpatine uses the Darkside to "hulk up" and is in total control of what he is doing. I think Palpatine is using the Darkside and not the other way around.

However, I would say that as he fought Mace, Palpatine simply didn't tap into the Force and fought as a normal dude only with his knowledge of fencing and without Force enhancement execept for when he did those flips and aerial spins. He didn't let the Force flow like he really could because he wanted to get knocked down and to look convincingly like the victim when Anakin walks in.

 

Cool observation. But I believe Palpatine was Darth Sidious. It was him acting the entire time and him making the silly "I'm too weak" comments. That's the brilliancy behind this man.

 

A little too deep for Star Wars. I still say Palps threw the fight when he sense Anakin was coming.

 

YES!!! I love this idea!! Too bad you didn't post this in the 3SA. You would have been burned at the stake by all the flame throwers. FYI, I would been torched right along side you, impressive, most impressive!

 

Lucas has said that Mace overpowered Palpatine, and while I do think that your theory is far more thought out and closer to plausable than the theory that Sidious was faking against a Jedi Master who has powers comparable to Yoda, I think that Mace simply was too much for Sidious to handle and that Palpatine was just smart enough to turn a battle that he couldn't win physically into one that could win for the Soul of Skywalker.

 

I'm not sure I agree with the idea, but I definitely appreciate the fresh take on it, and it's worth thinking about.

 

hmmm.....its actually a really good idea...but i dont think i agree with it

what i do agree with is that the scene was poorly done...i cant stand it

 

Mace didn't defeat no one, he got his a$$ handed to him by Palps/Sidious (same person by the way so your argument is void)

 

I dont understand how people miss the obvious revelation of this scene and thats that Palpatine/Sidious, while very powerful, is not the omnipotent power that we the viewer have been lead to believe. We finally see him for what he truly is - a trickster, with lots of smokes and mirrors and proseyletation to achieve his end as opposed to overwhelming power. People get offended when you suggest this, but this is exactly what the devil is in the christian bible as well as most other faiths and is exactly what the emporer is in SW. His greatest power is in the art of deception, NOT the lightning that shoots threw his fingers.

 

Its an interesting point if youre stretching. But there is no back story for it, so I dont agree.

 

The script explains it. When Palpatine's voice changes, he's filled with anger and hate. Then it really changes when the Dark Side has taken ahold of him, during the knighting scene, before switching back. Palpatine's only possessed then.

".....The Sound Editors for Episode III did change the pitch of Palpatine's voice at George Lucas' request to make the scene spookier. It is the sound of the dark side flowing, unrestrained and unbalanced, through a master Sith Lord for the first time in ages."


--Ask The Master, Star Wars Insider #85.


Otherwise, his voice change has to do with his anger and hate.

MACE: "The Senate will decide your fate."

PALPATINE: (burst of anger) "I am the Senate!"

 

interesting idea, but I think Palpatine and Sidious are one and the same person. Palpatine was just a disguise.
And Mace Windu was able to beat Sidious at saber fighting.

 

Mace defeated Palpatine, Emperor Palpatine, Darth Sidious, Nice gray haired old man.

 

Hmmmm, I have been following this thread with interest, and have been to many SW sites and also had a closer look at some archival material, available to me.

I will throw this comment into the fray for your consideration:

I suggest Chancillor Palpatine is our Sith Lord, in a more calmed and relaxed pose. Similar to Master Yoda, pontificating to the Anakin at the Jedi Temple. (Yet, Master Yoda can become a whirling, twirling green blurr when riled up by battle). We all know a similar posture is presented by Sidious, in times of his anger. Eg: On the Invisible Hand, Palpatine is restrained in a chair, as Anakin duels with Dooku. Then comes the line "Well done Anakin. Kill him..." (spoken with a sugar coated voice) - but then a satanic "DO IT!" is spat from Palpatines lips. Is this a bit of Sith frustration at Anakins' hesitation in despatching the cultured Count?

I am not suggesting there is a conflict taking place between the personas of Palpatine and Sidious, I am suggesting if it suits the moment, or can be a means of persuasion, the "flemmy" growl of Sidious is just as important, as the honey drenched linguistic acrobatics of Palpatine.

Once the Jedi Order was pulverized, and many of the obsticals were removed, the true Sidious/Sith countenance could be shown at will.

Just an observation.

Ansata Nu The Jedi Archivist.