One of the biggest debated questions in the Star Wars universe is who would win: Mace Windu or Yoda. They are both very powerful, but from only canon information (mainly the Saga alone) there is very little of them using their Force/lightsaber powers. In the movies, Mace Windu only battles Palpatine/Sidious once and fights in the Battle of Geonosis, although he does not fight any other Force users in it. Yoda fights Dooku/Tyranus and Palpatine/Sidious, and also uses some Force powers in Episode V, but information about him is also limited. Because of this, this battle match-up has ultimately remained unsolved. But today, I am suggesting that this (along with little pieces of other canon information) might actually be enough to figure out the winner! So read on!!! Part I: Basic Information Mace Windu is a human Force-Sensitive male that was a revered Jedi Master who sat on the Jedi High Council during the last years of the Republic. He was widely regarded as the greatest champion of the Jedi Order. Yoda is a Force-Sensitive male of an unknown and mysterious species that was a revered Jedi Master who served as the Grand Master of the Jedi Order during the last days of the Republic and also had trained/taught most of the Jedi younglings at some point. He was widely renown for his wisdom. Part II: Abilities Lightsaber Dueling Style Mace Windu primarily used a variation of Form VII, Juyo, that he and Sora Bulq had invented. Its main purpose was to channel the user's darkness and using it to fight, while still staying on the light side. The other users of this form, Sora Bulq and Depa Billaba, were both corrupted by the dark side during use of Vaapad, making it an extremely dangerous form and Mace Windu the only user to master it without being corrupted by the dark side. The power in Vaapad was that besides channeling the user's darkness, when fighting a dark side opponent the user could also use the enemy's darkness to their advantage, becoming stronger along with their opponent. Yoda, due to his small size, used a lightsaber that was shorter then regular sabers and primarily used Form IV, Ataru, which he was able to mostly master. It was an aggressive and fast-paced style that mainly revolved around using the Force to assist with acrobatics, such as somersaults and leaping strikes, also attacking an opponent from multiple or all directions. Even though he was over 800 years old and used a walking stick most of the time, he was able to use the Force and his small size to master this form in combat. Comparison: We'll compare this later. Force Powers (Pulls/Pushes/Chokes/etc.) The only time we see Mace Windu use the Force in this way in the movies is in the Battle of Geonosis, when he used the Force to retrieve his fallen lightsaber, then employed his lightsaber to deflect blaster fire at, then decapitate, Jango Fett. He seemingly does it easily. Yoda uses the Force much more: he catches and pushes/throws projectiles thrown by Count Dooku as an attack off to one side during their confrontation on Geonosis, Force-pushes Palpatine/Sidious into the wall at the start of their battle, throws Senate pods as their battle continues, and finally lifts an enormous X-Wing during Luke Skywalker's training on Dagobah. However, he seemingly has to try much harder then Windu. Comparison: Although Yoda apparently has to use greater force to lift/move objects then Windu, the items that Yoda lifts are much heavier. We'll look at this more in depth later. Absorbing/Using Force Lightning Yoda both absorbs/deflects Dooku's and Sidious's lightning, although he seemingly needs 2 hands to do it with Sidious as compared to just 1 with Dooku. Windu only did this with his lightsaber, and failed to absorb/deflect it without a weapon after Anakin cut his hand off, although he was in pain and only had one hand and might have been able to do it in other conditions. Neither of them can use Force lightning, but if Yoda turned to the dark side, he probably could since he could already absorb/deflect it. Comparison: This statistic doesn't really matter unless the condition of their battle is that they are fighting because Yoda and/or both of them have turned to the Dark Side, where there is a possibility of him using it on Windu. Part III: Possible Conditions of the Fight Preface: In all of the scenarios, Windu and Yoda are exactly as they are in Episode III, without any wounds (Yes, that means Windu has two arms), and have their full energy. Scenario 1: Fan-Fiction Fight: Light Windu vs. Light Yoda to the death. This is probably the one most fans want. Scenario 2: Friendly/Training Fight: Light Windu vs. Light Yoda; not to the death but until a situation when one can easily kill the other and the other is disarmed, such as Anakin with his blades threatening Dooku after defeating him or Windu with his blade at Sidious's throat. In addition, one or both may hold back since it is just a friendly/training fight. Scenario 3: Windu turns to the Dark Side Dark Windu vs. Light Yoda; Windu would probably like to kill Yoda but Yoda might hold back; Also Windu turning to light or Yoda turning to dark is not an option. Scenario 4: Yoda turns to the Dark Side Light Windu vs. Dark Yoda; Same as Windu turns to the Dark Side but with the names reversed. Scenario 5: Both turn to the Dark Side; Friendly/Training Fight Same as Scenario 2 but both have turned to the dark side; pretty much the same but both may have some additional Dark Side powers. Scenario 6: Both turn to the Dark Side; Rival Fight Same as Scenario 5 but the battle IS to the death. Part IV: Outcomes of the Scenarios Scenario 1: I believe this is the one you are waiting for. Now, let's do some more insight into these character's powers and abilities, and how they counter the other's. The only common enemy they have both fought in the movies is Palpatine/Sidious. A common point made by Windu fans is that Windu is stronger because he defeated Sidious, while Yoda only fought him to a draw. Of course, a common counterpoint by Yoda fans is that Sidious was toying with him. Now here's what I think: Windu DID truly beat Palpatine in the lightsaber battle, but Palpatine WAS toying with him. How can this be? Well, think about this. He didn't hesitate to abuse the Force by throwing Senate pods and use Force lightning. In a lightsaber battle, Palpatine was losing and he probably, even before the battle Sidious probably knew about Windu's Vaapad, or at least his strength in lightsaber combat. So why wouldn't he use the Force on him sooner? Plus, does Palpatine really seem like the type of person that would say "I'm too weak" and not trying to trick someone? So he was toying, but not in the way you think. Now, wait a minute Yoda fans! This doesn't mean I agree that Windu is at least better then Yoda in lightsaber combat! Yes, he defeated Sidious while Yoda failed, but this DOESN'T mean that he is stronger. Here is the major point of this article that probably all/most fans missed: Vaapad made Windu strong against Sidious because Windu used both his own inner darkness and Sidious's darkness to make him stronger as Sidious became stronger. This makes Vaapad a huge advantage against Dark Side users strong in the Force: The stronger they are, the stronger the user is. Some are probably saying at home now, "If Windu defeated Sidious with Vaapad, then Vaapad alone should make him stronger then Yoda!" I pretty much see Yoda as Sidious's light-side counterpart. But there is one major difference: Windu used Vaapad to turn Sidious's dark side power against him, thus defeating him. Yoda may sort of be Sidious's counterpart (Yes, in lightsaber combat too), but HE IS NOT A DARK SIDE USER!!! So the part of Vaapad that allowed Windu to beat Sidious in lightsaber combat by turning his own darkness against him would NOT WORK AT ALL against Yoda because YODA IS NOT A DARK SIDE USER!!! So Yoda could probably best him in even lightsaber combat! Now, if Sidious really was just toying with Windu, that would make even more of a case for Yoda. Yoda wins in this scenario. Period. Vaapad is a great weapon, but it's not gonna work against Light Yoda. Scenario 2: I believe this would be almost EXACTLY the same as Scenario 1, unless Yoda held back against his friend, and therefore Windu defeated him. Scenario 3: This would probably make Windu even weaker, since I don't think Vaapad works in the opposite way, and he probably wouldn't gain Force Lightning that quickly since he couldn't absorb it (Vader and Maul didn't have it, although Vader couldn't use it without suicide and maybe only humans could do it). Plus, the only benefit this could gain Windu was Force Lightning or more skill at the Force, but as I already explained, him gaining Force Lightning is highly unlikely and Yoda would probably absorb it as easily as he did with Dooku anyway. With the Force, that's different, but Yoda has lots of skill in the Force too...he could probably beat a Dark/Darth Windu. Scenario 4: Now this is a little different. You might think this would be even more of a win for Yoda, since the dark side makes previous light side Force users stronger, as seen with Anakin, and Yoda was already strong in the first place. Plus, like I said, if Yoda turned to the Dark Side, he would probably be able to use the Lightning, and also have other powers. However, since the other powers are probably not canon let's just forget about them here. So yes, this would make Yoda even stronger than Windu in the Force. But however, my reason that Windu wouldn't even be able to defeat Yoda in a lightsaber duel was that Yoda wasn't a dark side user, bringing the power of his form Vaapad down BIG time. But now if Yoda was, then I believe it would be the same as Windu vs. Sidious (Let's just assume Windu really beat Sidious in the lightsabers). So I believe what would happen is that Windu, with his Shatterpoint ability (Oh yeah, that allows him to find other's weaknesses/shatterpoints and exploit them), would try to keep it at lightsabers by attacking Yoda with his lightsaber continuously, while Yoda would keep trying to knock him back or get high ground so he could use the Force on Windu. This one is probably the most uncertain. Scenario 5: Probably same as Scenario 2, but in this one Yoda and Windu's power gap is even larger, so Yoda would need to hold back even more. However, perhaps Windu could still use Vaapad against other dark side users even as a dark side user, which would make it a combination of the holding back in Scenario 2 and the Vaapad-against-Yoda and Yoda-tries-to-use-the-Force thing in Scenario 4. So Windu would still have a chance of winning if his Vaapad still worked, but probably less chance then Scenario 4, unless Yoda REALLY holds back. Scenario 6: Same as Scenario 5, but without holding back. Even if Vaapad still worked for Windu, he would only have a little chance in this one: DEFINITELY less then Scenario 5. So there's my guess, folks. Let me know what you think!
OK I admit I didn't read the whole thing but I agree with the point that Windu is better against dark siders. Ie...Windu would be better against a sith than a top level jedi.
I'll be honest with you. I gave up after the first 12 paragraphs. I'd go with Yoda I suppose. He's green.
I don't have the concentration span to read all of that but head to head I'd say Mace wins on account of his reach advantage. Also Ali lost his edge after 30 and Yoda is 900.
Yoda: you don't set somebody up in the OT as a great and wise master only for him to become "second best" to a hot headed Jedi like Windu. IMHO of course.
well you could argue that yoda is more swamplike or reptilian even than windu. In fighting this would probably give an advantage. But then again yoda at his age seems to tire quickly. I suppose it depends of the length of the battle. Being both jedi yoda would probably be less inclined to use deadly force. This would prolong the length of the fight and cause him to lose. I am leaning toward windu on the basis that yoda is just to nice of a guy and great with children.
I think Mace's fighting style makes him better suited to fight single opponents, but Yoda is definitely more powerful in the Force. I would give Yoda the win 6/10 times. Just because Mace beat Sidious and Yoda did not does not make Mace more powerful - Yoda just had bad luck in my opinion. We all know Mace and Yoda are pretty much in their own tier as far as Jedi go.
Hard to say. Windu actually bested Sidious one-on-one (something Yoda could not) but Yoda actually survived his confrontation with Sidious (something Windu could not). If you haven't already, Matthew Stover's Shatterpoint is one of the best SW novels. All about Windu's power.
