Man, Vader's pain tolerance makes a Yuuzhan Vong's look like a little school girl's.

No offence to any little school girls of course.

I had forgoten, but after reading Shadows of the Empire, I remember how much agony Vader was in ALL the time. It's really morbidly sad. It HURTS him to SMILE. Geez, no wonder that the darkside and "His burning anger kept him alive", not much else could. Although it's infinities, Vader's line in ESB in issue 4 sums it up nicely. "My life IS pain, it will take more than that to stop me."

 

Yeah, it's very sad to think about, and not hard at all to see now why Anakin was such a horrible tyrant.

 

I've often thought the same thing, both mentally and physically. He always seemed to have that "just kill me and put me out of my misery" feel to him, but of course no one was bad enough to do it. In the end it was basically himself....

 

When he sensed from Luke that he had daughter as well as a son, Vader's dispair overwhelmed him. Luke's anger drove Vader back, but I can't help but think that deep down, he wanted to lose. He wanted to face someone worthy again before he died, like his own Son.

 

This title gets my vote for "best title ever."

At least this week...

 

I try.

 

Yeah, Masterskywalker, you're right Vader does have alot of experience in the pain dept. I wonder what he would've thought of the Vong and their whole reverence of pain. Would they revere him since he's in constant pain? probably not since Vader's more abominable machine than man. Heh, then again after he's killed a great many of them...heh, the Ganner is nothing compared with the Vader.

 

When he sensed from Luke that he had daughter as well as a son, Vader's dispair overwhelmed him. Luke's anger drove Vader back, but I can't help but think that deep down, he wanted to lose. He wanted to face someone worthy again before he died, like his own Son.

I agree, I think he really wanted to lose. In all the OT movies, I never got the feeling Vader was really "fighting" anyone, not even Obiwan, and especially not Luke. In watching Anakin with a lightsaber in AOTC, (and he will probably be better in Ep 3), you can tell he was holding back. He wanted to have Luke around, hence Luke saying he felt the conflict and "that is why you couldn't destroy me".

I wouldn't be surprised if Anakin pulled an Obiwan in the lava duel and held his saber up to be "destroyed" when he falls in the lava, thinking his wife is dead that he'll kill himself...alas not to be...Palpy gets him. Sorry off on a tangent, wrong thread... but you get my drift.

 

Schoolgirls . . .

 

In watching Anakin with a lightsaber in AOTC, (and he will probably be better in Ep 3), you can tell he was holding back.

I dont think so... Yes in the prequel movies, ALL of the fights have been superior in all aspects to the ones after them... But i dont think its to go along with the story... I think that the coreogropher (sp?) of the earlier films (1970/80's ones) was either slacking, thought that that was good fights, or the actors themselves just were plain... bad. In RotJ, the fights werent that bad, but in the prequel movies, theyve been excellent. I think its just the quality of movie that diferenciates episodes 1 and 2 (and upcoming three) from 4-6.
In the books after RotJ, Luke gets even MORE old, and i guess thats not saying too much because luke wasnt that old to begin with, But he gets really awesome to the point where he could take on more than 3 jedi at a time. Even old and decrepit Ben probably couldnt do that. At least not old and decrepit Ben from the A New Hope movie... HE was horrible...

 

Good call, GAJ. And yes, I agree with the sentiment that Darth Vader must have an amazing tolerance for pain. If life was one constant debilitating experience of pain, I'd probably want to kill everything that disagreed with me or even looked at me funny too.

 

Vader's simplistic style and overwhemlimg power are quite clear in the ESB fight, far better than any of the flashy prequel fights (although those are good... in their own way).

Certainly explains his total hatred towards Obi Wan, don't you think?

 

Indeed it does explain his hatred.

And I rather like Darth Vader's lightsaber style. Relentless, never slowing down. Just beating and beating and beating, all the while keeping the enemy pressed too much for him to mount a dangerous counteroffensive.

 

It was one huge swing that sliced a part of the platform off, then one circular parry and Luke's hand went bye bye.

Yeah, the perfect example of Vader's fighting style is shown in "Extinction".

He basically just artistically bludgens the Dark Women into oblivion.

 

The lighsaber fight in TPM was the best done, imo. All the lighsaber action in AOTC seemed to be extremely styleish, lots of twirling and flashing, if you know what i mean. It wasnt quite as bad in the Maul/Obi-Wan fight scene, but it showed through in some spots. And here i assumed all along that Jedi where supposed to do their jobs in a non-flashy manner, but look how Obi-Wan takes down that one monster that looks like its out of Starcraft

As for the Anakin vs Dooku lightsaber fight, it started out good, but he fights INCREDIBLY slopily. And at the end of the fight, it is mostly the camera flashing between faces with blue/red colors flashing intermitantly

Dont get me started on Yoda...Crack whore!

Anyhoo, since this WAS originally a Vaders Pain Tollerance thread ....on with the posts!

 

I'm sorry, but after reading traitor, Jacen would take Vader's pain and ask for thirds. The garbage that guy went thru is incredible, and he began to eat the pain. He didn't need no stinking suit to walk around in. Granted his lungs didn't get fried to a crisp.

Jacen's the man when it comes to pain. REsisting the Druryham is a great piece of work. He withstood pain cause by his own neurons jacked up to the highest capacity and wasn't even fazed. He fought YV warriors during this pain. (I'm thinking about the killing of duryhams, where all slaves had to go to the coral tree to stop the pain.

 

I liked the close ups on Tyrannus and Anakin during the duel, it was different than most saber fights we've seen. I loved the colors cast on their faces... and the fighting in the dark...

I'm off to see it again!

With all do respect, Jacen was in the Embrace of pain for what, three or four months?

Vader had twenty YEARS of agony, every single day. Though the force aleviated some of it, it was a huge burden to carry. Can you imagine, not being able to SMILE without hurting?

 

i disagree when you say vader didn't need the suit.

IIRC Vader could only sustain himself for a couple of minutes max without his mask on, let alone the rest of the suit.

 

masterskywalker wrote:

When he sensed from Luke that he had daughter as well as a son, Vader's dispair overwhelmed him. Luke's anger drove Vader back, but I can't help but think that deep down, he wanted to lose. He wanted to face someone worthy again before he died, like his own Son.

I don't think it had anything to do with facing "someone worthy" at all. I think, by the time of ROTJ, Vader was begining to remember his past and feel the struggle of good and bad. He was becoming weighed down by it. During the battle with Luke, he was beaten by Luke's wraith and simply wanted to die. To end his suffering as he had grown tired of his inner struggle. However, when Luke proved stronger than he was, he saw in his son the man he could have been. Thus, when the Emperor tried to kill Luke, Anakin Skywalker finally returned to destroy him.

GrandAdmiralJello wrote:

Vader didn't need the suit, he had begun to develop ways to use the Dark Side to limit his reliance on it.

Where does it state this?

 

I totatly agree Ceewulf, but in Shadows of the Empire Vader frequently says he's disgusted with a lack of a worthy foe. He grows to hate butchering rebel pilots in combat, and even spares one (A dark lord showing mercy? That doesn't happen too often!). He's especially proud his most formitable enemy is his own son. That's also where it says Vader was using the darkside to slowly repair his body, he got better than he was. But he was still in agony most of the time.

The realization that Vader had a daughter and was overwhelmed with despair after learing it, was in NJO: Rebirth.

 

"I think, by the time of ROTJ, Vader was begining to remember his past and feel the struggle of good and bad. He was becoming weighed down by it. During the battle with Luke, he was beaten by Luke's wraith and simply wanted to die. To end his suffering as he had grown tired of his inner struggle. However, when Luke proved stronger than he was, he saw in his son the man he could have been. Thus, when the Emperor tried to kill Luke, Anakin Skywalker finally returned to destroy him."-Ceewulf

That's exactly how I've always interpreted that moment Ceewulf.

As for Vader not needing his suit it was in Shadows of the Empire but it only stated that he could only do it in some hyperbaulic chamber without his mask for a few moments concentrating all his hate of Obi-wan, the Jedi, himself into the force and making his lungs operate pain free as long as he held that level of concetration. But inevitably he loses it and needs the mask back on. We saw this in ESB when we saw Vader without the helmet.

As for Vader's fighting style I agree with you that Vader was all about bludgeoning his opponent with his lightsaber, but the really neat thing is that in EP II Anakin uses the same philosophy only he's more mobile and athletic in its execution.
As for why Vader isn't as flashy as say Maul or Dooku it's because if it hurts him to smile imagine the pain lightsaber dueling the way Maul and Tyrranus do it would cause him.

As for Ben's style in his duel with Vader in ANH, he was using the inner ring defense. Hilt of the saber close to his midsection the blade angled horzontally from his navel keeping his opponent at a maximum distance while enabling him to parry any attack away from him. I'd say it was an excellent defense against Vader's bludgeoning style.
As for why he chose to fight Vader defensively I think it has more to do with Obi-wan not wanting to defeat Vader but show Luke what his father had become. If you'll notice the minute Ben knows Luke is watching he releases his defensive style and lets Vader deliver that final blow making Luke dislike Vader for killing Old Ben.