Marijuana--its use, regulation, and effect on society

First, let's mention that the TOS will not support a thread that encourages the use or participation in illegal activities, and this thread is not meant as a forum for people to do so. If you're someone who is a user of or who has tried marijuana and advocates is legality based on personal experience please be sure that the information you share is in line with the TOS and does not fall into the realm of "inappropriate" as defined therein.


That being said, I'd like to open up a discussion about the benefits and drawbacks of the Marijuana plant and its perceived affect on health and society in general.


- Do you think that the use or legalization of marijuana would have negative or positive social impacts?
- What are some of the common misconceptions regarding marijuana use and its users?
- If marijuana were to be legalized, how might it most effectively be regulated?

To start, I am a supporter of the legalization of marijuana for several reasons. First, many states have legislation in place that would classify marijuana as a Narcotic. Not only is this classification scientifically false, as the pharmacological structure of THC is fundamentally different than opiates. From what I have read and perceive, the principle reason for the classification of marijuana as a narcotic is purely political as many of these laws were passed during the counterculture movement of the 1960's.

Since the classification of marijuana tends to be fundamentally unscientific in the word of law, I absolutely do not support its regulation based on its connection with dangerous, addictive drugs such as heroin.

Secondly, the research that I have done shows that marijuana is a non-addictive substance. While I agree it must be used responsibly--as with the use of alcohol--it is in fact less addictive than legal substances such as caffeine and nicotine.

Since its addictiveness is no greater than substances we readily consume ourselves and allow our children to consume (Caffeine is found in many sodas and parents commonly provide their children with coffee drinks from Starbucks, for example), its threat to society in this realm is relatively small. Marijuana does not create junkies that steal and live on the streets to support their drug habit.

Third, the stringent laws prohibiting the use of marijuana (and indeed, many other drugs) treat users as if drug use and addiction is a criminal problem and not a health issue. The attitude that drug users are criminals is a misguided tactic used by fear mongers who wish to discourage people from partaking in these activities and denies the fact that addiction is a serious medical issue and must be treated as such.

And finally, it has been my own personal experience that marijuana is less inhibiting on mental capacity than alcohol and is a safer alternative as it does not lead to alcohol poisoning, liver problems, or the inhibition of decision-making capacities. Also, it has the added benefit of being free of hangovers.

While you may not personally wish to partake in any mind-altering substances such as alcohol or marijuana or abstain from partaking in consumption that may adversely affect your health such as cigarettes, what are your feelings and opinions surrounding the use of this drug?



Please remember:
* Be respectful of other posters
* Respect the TOS
* Be fact-oriented
* Be open-minded!

Let's have a discussion that doesn't proliferate unfair stereotypes and prejudices.

 

Thorough opening post

Personally, I would disagree in the reasons. I don't think there's a "it must be healthier than alcohol" sort of line that it has to cross. I think its entirely within personal right to do things to one's body that may be harmful. I'd not stop at marijuna, in that sense.

Secondly, I think its good fiscal policy. Marijuana being illegal leads to increased costs enforcing drug laws, incarcerating drug criminals, as well as the costs related to marijuana smuggling along the Mexico border and drug money and the drug trade being a key part that props up current gang structures, in the same way that Prohibition, and the business it resulted in, helped people like Al Capone gain power. Legal drugs would remove a strong fiscal resource for them, as well, and instead provide a revenue stream, through taxation, for the government.

 

Great topic.

Not true. It may not be physically addictive (I don't smuggle weed on holidays) but it sure is mentally addictive (I have been smoking weed almost daily for twenty years, and so have my brothers).

But: I have yet to see any negative effects. Career is doing fine, social life is fine. I know, that's not all... I know cannabis is ten times worse for your lungs than tobacco. But people are allowed to smoke, right?

Now, I've noticed that not everybody reacts to cannabis the way I do. I've seen people get scared for their lives, I've seen people drop out, I've seen them neglect their diabetes and die. So I do think cannabis is bad business for people who aren't too stable.

As you may or may not know, in my country it's allowed to carry (and smoke) three grams of cannabis. However, that may be ending, as the European Union is bearing down on us to do something about border drug tourism. And I guess it's more realistic to expect Holland to adapt to the EU than the other way round, but I can't help but think that prohibiting something because the others do is not a really good reason.

I understand that part of the reason marijuana has been prohibited in the U.S. was because hemp once competed with oil. The big oil companies couldn't have that, so they saw to it marijuana got prohibited. Not sure how much of that is true; it's what Willy Nelson says.

 

I'm all for legalization, if only for the reason that treating it like a controlled substance on par with heroin or cocaine promotes a tremendous level of social hypocrisy. I know parents who smoke it regularly who because of the social stigma and criminal penalties hide it from their kids and condemn the practice in front of their own children. There are undoubtedly thousands of American families where the teenage children are hiding their smoking from their parents while the parents are simultaneously hiding their own smoking from the kids. It's facile to say that the reason the kids are doing it is because of a family atmosphere of tolerance, but I think it's a much broader problem than that.

Alcohol consumption among minors is a different kind of problem though.

 

It can be mentally addictive, sure, but then again, the same goes for television, the internet and even playing sports.

The argument that some people can't handle it, just means that personal responsibility apparently isn't thought of very highly. Some people become alcoholics, some people get hooked on fast food.

It's possible to combine the use of cannabis with a responsible life, just as you can drink alcohol without becoming a no-good drunk.

 

I'm all for legalizing it. Anybody I know who would ever smoke marijuana already do, and I think that if alcohol and cigarettes are legal, it only makes sense for us to legalize something like weed. As already pointed out, it makes fiscal sense as well.

 

I don't know what the big fuss about Marijuana is. Take a look at this image:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_(mean_physical_harm_and_mean_dependence).svg

According to this, tobacco and alcohol is worse than Marijuana.

One of the reasons that it is illegal in many countries, is because since it is a naturally growing plant, government can't tax it if you were allowed to grow it in your backyard, etc.

Man has been using Marijuana for thousands of years. In broad brush strokes of history, it is only within the last 100 years or so that it has been made 'illegal'.

As it is less harmful or addictive than tobacco or alcohol, I think it should be up to the individual to make their own decision to use it or not, not dictated by the government. Perhaps the only limitation that I would suggest would be an age limit, ie: 18 or 21 (same as the legal age to drink, depending on what country you live in)

 

I personallythink the only regulation should be in the area of drivig under its influence. But that becomes problamatic in how there is no scientific test to gauge ones current intoxication due to weed. But I think it would be perfectly acceptible to have the same penalties as in drunk driving, but just have it be a sobriety check much like they had before breathalizers(ie. Finger on nose, alphabet backwards, strait line walk, ect.).

I only say this, because with my experimentation with it, i have found that it does reduce my coordination. Though I did find it to be not as severe as alcohol.

I also do support the age limit of 18 on it too. But after that it should be up to the individual on what they put in their body.

 

SWBob, i'm not sure what country you are from, but here in Australia, in some states, there is indeed some tests that the police use to test drivers for Cannabis. I'm not sure if it is passed the trial stage or not. Plus if a police officer was suspicious enough, perhaps they could do a blood test ... this would show up THC. Not sure what happens in the US, but here, when you are breath tested for alcohol whilst driving, if it is over .05 who are obviously over the limit and breaking the law, but they still have to take you back to the station and perform a blood test for a more final accurate result.

 

Problems with marijuana in BC:

1. Grow-op fires (often in basements with children living upstairs)
2. The fact that organized crime groups trade it at the border for hard drugs and guns
3. Young men joining gangs to make a quick buck and constantly killing each other over the profits

I would like to see marijuana legalized in Canada, but I think in order to solve all these problems it would have to be legalized in the U.S.A. as well.

I think the stuff ought to be regulated and taxed just like alcohol and tobacco. Warnings about its health effects on packaging (such as we get on cigarettes in Canada) would also be great (ie: "Use of marijuana may trigger symptoms of schizophrenia or psychosis in persons who have a family history of either disease") so people are educated about the risks and what to expect, and actually trust the information.

 

From the way I see things, our philosophical viewpoints on this issue are irrelevant. Let's say we all hypothetically agree that marijuana ought to be legalized. To implement such a policy change would involve clashes with the powerful tobacco and alcohol lobbies. Any legislation would face the insurmountable challenge of overcoming resistance from those lobbies as well as those on the other side of the spectrum that disagree with legalization for philosophical reasons.

It would be an incredibly difficult policy change.

In terms of my perspective on this issue: I'm torn. I concede that many of the early efforts to criminalize marijuana use were the result of propaganda and the faulty scientific evidence of government hacks. The statutes were a produce of an era. With that said, I'm not sure that allowing the free use of the drug would be a positive move for society. The proponents of legalization love to engage in the alcohol v. pot debate. It is an irrelevant comparison.

-Seldon

 

Perhaps a similar comparison, is that to Absinthe, which was banned throughout most countries for nearly a century, and only now, becoming back into vogue.

 

I agree the legalisation would be an incredibly difficult policy change, which is perhaps why it has still yet to be lgalised in the States.

However, I live in Arizona and the possession laws out here are notoriously stringent. Even if marijuana were to remain illegal to possess, I still am baffled that as little as a seed or stem can land someone 3 years in jail. In Denver, it became to legal to possess a very small amount although a person was not allowed to smoke it in public, as some European countries allow their citizens to do.

Even if it were not declared "LEGAL!" constitutionally, it seems to make more sense to let the states decide. The only problem is that anti-drug campaigns, Christians, and the police still agressively spew out biased, stereotyped, and false claims regarding the evils and detriments of smoking weed. Even if a bill made it to public election, there are many powerful groups that would fear and feel threatened by the suggestion of making possesstion--in any quantity--legal and would aggressively lobby against it.

So therein lies the problem: according to the book, "Saying Yes" by Jacob Sullum, there is a silent majority of citizens who smoke (or once did and do not object to its use), but because of the cultural climate they must remain in anonymity. So how do we change the cultural climate from abject fear to acceptance? Why can't the cultural attitude be more towards "responsibility and moderation" as with alcohol???

 

Perhaps the pot-smokers 'lobby' should emulate the model used by the Homosexual lobby groups that has gradually changed public opinion and acceptance of them. Albeit, that has taken many decades.

 

Well:

 

So basically the gist of that article is that Marijuana and Hemp are wonder-plants that we are idiots for not utilizing to their fullest extent, correct?

 

Can anybody else shed a light on this? Because I'm afraid that I'm too opionated on this subject and I don't know a whole lot about early 20th century rural American economics. I'm afraid this is a convenience story, but it could just as well be a big hidden truth...

But do note, DLB - not sure if you misunderstood but marijuana = part of the hemp plant. It's one and the same plant.

 

Why the sarcasm, DLB?

As with many other examples in American agricultural economics, it would seem the oil companies and other conglomerates pushed Hemp off the agenda for one of the nation's largest crops. It would certainly make sense to use it more, though.

 

Oh, no sarcasm intended, I am all for the legalization of marijuana, I was just surprised it had as many uses as it did. I knew about the clothing and the paper of course, but not about the fuel stuff.

 

Well, then may this page with hemp facts enlighten us all:

* George Washington and Thomas Jefferson both grew hemp. Ben Franklin owned a mill that made hemp paper. Jefferson drafted the Declaration of Independence on hemp paper.

* Hemp fibers are longer, stronger, more absorbent and more mildew-resistant than cotton.

* Fabrics made of at least one-half hemp block the sun's UV rays more effectively than other fabrics.

* Hemp can yield 3-8 dry tons of fiber per acre. This is four times what an average forest can yield.

 

This documentary http://blip.tv/file/1356143/ is about marihuana. It highlights alot of interesting facts.

As far as I can see, it will make sense to legalize it. Huge benefits in preventive medicine. 45.000 less people in prisons on pot related 'crimes'.
Marinol is an engineered version of thc but is exactly the same structure as natural thc.
Not one death as a result of marihuana use.
Have healing properties for over 200 different ailments. In documentaray you see a man before and after smoking a joint. The man has sclerosis I believe. The change is dramatic.

 

The drug laws in this country are ridiculous. Just as happened in Prohibition, the presence of such clearly stupid laws on the books damages public respect for the rule of law in general. Especially when convicts realize that the penalties for actual crimes like robbery and assault are often dwarfed by the ridiculous prison terms associated with possession and dealing.

 

I was wondering if anyone has heard about a commitee being held in the california state senate about legalization. It was relayed to me by a friend so I'm not sure if its true or not.

 

I saw a recent CBS poll that legalizing marijuana is now more popular than the Republican Party.

Here we go, found it:
http://www.pollingreport.com/drugs.htm
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/2/20/134319/463/902/699813

 

I've heard nothing about the senate, but there's a bill in the assembly, AB 390, that was put forward by Assemblyman Tom Ammiano to legalise marijuana and tax it to help the state budget.

Story

I absolutely love that this is being discussed as I've long supported legalising marijuana and regulating/taxing it the same as we treat other drugs.