*Master* Obi-Wan Kenobi - the final word

From the Jedi Council on sw.com:

Why was Obi-Wan always referred to as 'Master Kenobi' in Episode II? Doesn't he have only Jedi Knight status?

The term "Master" is occasionally used as an honorific to a teaching Knight -- especially by non-Jedi -- even if he has not yet achieved the status of Jedi Master. Obi-Wan Kenobi never achieves the formal rank of Jedi Master.

Exactly what I've been saying.

 

Not to mention the fact that Dooku calls Obi-Wan a Jedi Knight when he talks to him in the cell.

 

That's exactly what I've been saying all along too.

 

Not to mention the fact that Dooku calls Obi-Wan a Jedi Knight when he talks to him in the cell.

That's irrelevent. It is an Order of Jedi Knights, in essense they all are. This also explains the TPM scroll.






I said he wasnt a Master until POSSIBLY the end. He wasnt. Case closed

 

It reminds me of what dan brought up in the guide to characters thread:

- Qui-Gon's first Padawan was Xanatos. What happened to the other one, and who was it? ( See the TPM Visual Dictionary )

For the Ultimate Guide to Episode I, Haden Blackman and I had planned to address the issue of Qui-Gon's "first Padawan." Haden developed a female Cathar (panther-like alien) Jedi, but it was eventually decided by Lucasfilm that the Visual Dictionary is mistaken on the point that Qui-Gon had two Padawans prior to Obi-Wan. So Xanatos is Qui-Gon's first and only Padawan prior to Kenobi.

Why get rid of the other plot, and ignore the fix(that dan wrote) that was put on starwars.com databanks?

Qui-Gon Jinn was long hesitant to take on a Padawan learner, given his failure with his second student. Xanatos was the son of Crion, the wealthiest man on the planet Telos. He had a very high midi-chlorian count in his bloodstream, prompting Jinn to take him as an apprentice. Crion reluctantly agreed to let his son leave for Jedi training.

Although Xanatos' talents were undeniable, his high birth and attitude often led to clashes with his fellow students. For Xanatos' final test, Jedi Master Yoda sent him and Qui-Gon back to Telos, where a civil war was brewing. Xanatos' father implored his son to join his forces in a bid to control the planet. Xanatos agreed and Qui-Gon found himself at war with his own student. Jinn was forced to kill Crion in battle, and an enraged Xanatos battled his mentor. Though Qui-Gon defeated Xanatos, he could not bear to kill his own Padawan. The defeated student fled and Qui-Gon obsessed over his failure for years, dismissing his earlier successes as a teacher and often referring to Xanatos as his "first" apprentice.

Although he vowed to never again train a Padawan, Qui-Gon eventually formed a connection with an adolescent Obi-Wan Kenobi on a mission to Bandomeer. Yoda wished for Obi-Wan to become Qui-Gon's third apprentice. Eventually, Qui-Gon was able to overcome his grief, and took Kenobi as his Padawan. The path was by no means smooth, as their relationship suffered when Obi-Wan briefly abandoned the Jedi Order to help end a civil war on Melida/Daan. Eventually, and uneasily, the two reunited. They would grow to become a formidable team.

What does this to qui-gon's character? He wasn't a real master, only had the honorific?

 

No, Qui-Gon definitely had the rank of Master.

 

How did he get it if he never trained xanatos to knighthood, considering LFL's new policy of getting rid of the plot of the visual dictionary?

 

Maybe through his deeds, like Jorus C'baoth.

 

I guess training a Padawan to Knighthood is no longer a requirement for becoming a Master. Actually, now that I think about it, I don't recall any source explicitly saying that was ever the requirement at all.

 

The only "source" that said that was the PSA. They have a tendancey of making things up and saying that it's canon.

 

It was the visual dictionary that made it a requirement,

"Qui-gon earned the rank of master when he trained his first padawan apprentice to Knighthood..."

Then it went on:

",although his second apprentice failed to become a knight. Obi-wan is Qui-gon's third Padawan and a worthy student of wisdom and skill."

It is retarded that LFL is ignoring and forcing other writers to ignore this established continuity.

 

According to the Revised RPG Core Rulebook Jedi normally become Masters after training a Padawan to Knight-dom or through their own rigorous training in the Jedi ways. Maybe this second option is what happened to Qui-Gon. Or maybe through his deeds, similar to C'boath, as Fire_Light stated above.

He did succefully train one Jedi. . . Obi-Wan. So if he wasn't considered a Master before (and he probably was), he is considered one post-mordem because of his sucess with Obi-Wan.

 

He was definitely considered one beforehand. So I guess there is an alternate requirement for becoming a Master.

 

He trained hard to master the Force then. He was considered within the elite of the Jedi swordmen. Maybe that elevated him to the rank of Master.

 

Or we can ignore what lfl told dan wallace, and follow our own personal continuity and say that starwars.com and visual dictionary info is still canon cause it doesn't have an infinities label on it yet, .

 

Obi-Wan Kenobi never achieves the formal rank of Jedi Master.

Note the word formal. With no one around to give him a promotion (and not being as unregimented as Luke, who decides to promote himself sometime just before Dark Empire), he's stuck as a Jedi Knight. Yoda could have given Ben a promotion, but Yoda is a couple of sectors away, busy with concerns of his own (like perfecting his root stew recipe).

Ben has the power and wisdom of a Jedi Master, but not the rank.

In Rebel Stand, Luke describes Tahiri as being a Jedi Apprentice, but her experiences have made her a Jedi Knight in everything except formal recognition. I think that Obi-Wan is almost certainly the same.

 

Yep. Even Anakin agree.

"I am truely honored to be his apprentice. He is as wise as Master Yoda and as powerful as Master Windu. . ."

 

And of course, he's "the last and greatest of the Jedi Knights."

 

Jedi Master An honorific given to the greatest of Jedi, those who are strong enough in the Force and patient enough in life -- and even beyond -- to pass on their skills by teaching a new generation of Jedi. In the darkest days of the Empire, nearly all the Jedi Masters were hunted down and wiped out. But on the backwater planet of Dagobah, a 900-year-old Jedi Master named Yoda managed to survive to train the first of a new generation of Jedi, Luke Skywalker.

-- Star Wars Encyclopedia, p. 150

Since 1998, it has been officially established that "Master" is an honorific -- it is a title, but it is not a rank. A Jedi Knight may, through special circumstances, receive the title of "Master," but it is merely an honorific.

Similarly, a Catholic bishop may receive several other honours -- he may be appointed a metropolitan, whereby he gains the special title "Archbishop"; he may even gain the much rarer titles of "Primate" or "Patriarch" or "Cardinal" or -- exceedingly rare -- "Pope." But he is still a bishop -- albeit a bishop with special titles, position, and authority.

Just as an archbishop is a bishop with a special title granted under specific circumstances, a Jedi Master is a Jedi Knight with a special title granted under specific circumstances.

And just as the Pope can grant archiepiscopal dignity under different circumstances than those ordinarily used, the Jedi High Council can grant the title of "Master" to Jedi who are not ordinarily entitled to it.

Anyway, I hope that clarifies things a bit.