Nom Anor: Pre-Vector Prime conceptions

Okay, I've jumped around the EU chronology a lot, so by the time I read a copy of Crimson Empire II: Council of Blood, I was well into Vector Prime and well aware of what Nom Anor really was and what he was trying to do.

But I'm curious, what did people who read CE before NJO think about Nom Anor? Any crazy theories about why he was helping that guy or whether he was human or something else under that armor?

 

Nom Anor was always planned to be in an invasion plot...just not the NJO version.

 

Would anybody liek to remind me what invasion Nom Anor was orginally going to eb apart of? And why that invasion story was cancelled in favor of the NJO?

 

Possibly something from the Unknown Regions, methinks. (tons of unknown enemy species, just waiting to spread chaos; but just one at a time, others please wait for the next book series ) Maybe the the terrors Zahn was refering to in Vision of the Future.

 

I read Crimson Empire II in the first half of 2000 (it was published from January to June over here), and by coincidence I read Vector Prime, well, August 2000. But I don't believe I made the connection between the comic and the novel back then. I think I read about it later on.

The comic characters (with the exception of recurring Kir Kanos) didn't actually stick in my mind, and I didn't find the whole "Imperials at each other's throats"-plot to be very exciting, we had already had that with Daala. So, you had some weird snake-hissing guy (at least they went with that in the translation...) in black clothes manipulating a dumb Imperial, and I have to admit, I didn't really pose the question why Nom Anor had done what he had done.

So imagine my surprise when I found out that there was some kind of connection that even makes sense. Nice.

But I still don't like Crimson Empire all that much...

EDIT: Thinking about it, the only name I remember from CE2 besides Kanos and Anor (who I wouldn't remember if it weren't for the NJO connection) is Grappa the Hutt, because he's named after Greek wine...

 

Hmmm!

A drunk Hutt...

Let's all just picture that for a moment.

 

Hmmm...

Zorba the Greek (Hutt)?

 

I seem to remember something about the original invader species to which Nom Anor belonged being conceptualised as "water-based" aliens... I think that meant they were sentient liquids, rather than fish...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

Sentient Liquids?

Look, the day my slurpee drinks back is the day I go to war!

 

Actually, from what I remember reading, Dark Horse was planning for the Invasion to be from a race of energy-based lifeforms, and ol' Nom was among their number. Then, when the whole NJO series came around, Nom was taken and made apart of the Yuuzhan Vong, much to Dark Horse's displeasure, I believe.

 

Actually, I find that pretty interesting - a (at least at the time) unimportant one-shot comic character makes the jump into s trong of novels, becoming arguably the most memorable character of the NJO. A success story to rival Aayla's!

Just like how I thought it so cool at the time that CEII's Grappa the Hutt was taken from a one-line reference from Dark Forces II.

 

He was?

 

If, and that's a pretty big if, that species was ever conceptualized as being Nom Anor's, I think I've got of who that idea came from. You're all going to hate this.

It was Kevin J. Anderson, who kind of batted around ideas back when people were just starting to talk about the concepts of the NJO - he actually took the ideas he had and turned them into his own series. Those ideas, interestingly, are the basis of his Saga of Seven Suns, which is actually pretty well done. *waits for KJK bashing to commence*

I never actually read CE, but I think it had some interesting overall connotations to continuity. That Nom Anor became so important, and the suggestion that Lumiya has been quietly operating behind the scenes for quite some time now are BOTH interesting...

- Keralys

 

Yeah - he was mentioned as being the original owner of the ship that Kyle and Jan fly around in throughout the game.

And I'm willing to entertain the notion that KJA might be capable of writing good books - all I know is, he's incapable of writing good Star Wars or Dune books. Also, if he actually did come up with the idea of water-based aliens, I'm sure he was influenced by The Abyss...so there.

 

I know he was related to the Moldy Crow by the Dark Forces Saga articles, but I never heard of him in the game. I thought Abel just made that connection up.

Do you know where the mention is?

 

Edit for my last post: I meant KJA, not KJK.

Maybe, maybe... maybe not. The main villains aren't the water people, by any stretch, and the water beings are NOTHING like the things from Abyss...

And I happen to think that Brian Herbert is at least partly responsible for the flopped Dune books. KJA's Star Wars stuff was pretty respectable when it was written. It's hardly fair to compare the mid 90's to now - it's really not "your father's" Star Wars, in any way. I enjoyed those books then. Do they stand up well now? Not so much. Neither does TTT, even to HoT. None of the earliest books compare well to those written now. They don't have to, though, and I think it's unfair to apply the same standard, instead of taking them in the context of then.

- Keralys

 

Well, even then I didn't really like the ones he wrote. I remember thinking quite clearly that the idea of the Sun Crusher was the stupidest thing ever, and was too over-the-top even for Star Wars. And I wouldn't say that all mid-nineties stuff is bad: I still like the Zahn and Stackpole work, not to mention TOTJ. Although after rereading all five recently, I like HOT better than TTT.

 

From: Dark Horse Forum topic: Nom Anor, DHC's "invasion" storyline and the NJO

Nom Anor had already appeared in the comics, and Mike Richardson already had plans for an "invasion" storyline to spring out of Nom's presence. Unfortunately, Lucasfilm did not approve some of DH's ideas.

One I specifically remember had to do with an aspect of Nom's appearance (no, he was not an "energy creature"). Lucasfilm insisted that the invaders be humanoid in structure. So that undercut one of the ideas we had.

Then, Del Rey's writers had ideas -- which LF embraced -- that further diverged from what we had originally wanted to do.

By the time it became clear the DH would only get to play a supporting role in the events surrounding the death of Chewie, we (and by "we," I mean Mike Richardson and myself more than anybody else) were feeling we should leave the "new" invasion to DR and focus our efforts elsewhere.

For anybody who cares (and I can't imagine why anybody would), those are my memories of the way things happened. But, in the imaginary canon that is Star Wars, all that matters is what actually got published.

- Randy Stradley

 

Please tell me that is a joke...



Because you are seriously wrong. I read TTT, HoT, and JAT for the first time two years ago (I think I went TTT, JAT, HoT), and let me tell you, TTT and HoT blew me away. I read JAT and I was very dissapointed because a trilogy as important as this on the timeline was so awful. And I'd like to point out that I formed these opinions before joining TFN or reading anything negative about JAT.

 

It's both interesting and sad to see that the nub of the NJO was formed by Dark Horse, then 'stolen' away to the realm of Del Rey...If DH had done NJO (or whatever it would have bene called) I can't help but think that it'd have been a much betetr series, although I can invision a lot of people getting angry that Chewie's death came in comics, and not books (interesting that apparently the thing both ideas had in common was Chewie dying...geeze, the authors must've really had it in for him). Too bad that, once NJO was settled upon, DH decided against doing anything set then.

Also, the fact that LFL demanded that the "invaders" be humanoid seems to indicate that even back then they wanted them to be exiled Sith, which makes their sudden decision otherwise seem even odder.

 

Indeed - I think things could have been very different under DH. Not necessarily either better or worse, just different. I think we'll see more collaboration (instead of competition) in the future, as we saw how well that worked in the Clone Wars, particularly with the comics.

No, it wasn't. I read and enjoyed those books in sequence of when they were published. And while I thought they were a bit corny, I liked them. If you read things in the order they're published, you get a much better feel for how it fits in the overall context of the plot. While I still enjoy TTT, it's nowhere near as good in my book as some of the later stuff, even HoT, but including things like Shatterpoint. Much depends on the order you read them.

And I think it'd be nice to remember that as much as you may have disliked them, others did not. I hadn't met anyone in my (admittedly rather small) circle of Star Wars friends that disliked the JA trilogy until I joined these boards. Honestly, I think KJA gets a bad rap - his characters and ideas are good, and if he writes at a fairly simple level for those books, then so be it. Take it or leave it, but I don't think you can definitively state that I am wrong about something that's a matter of personal taste. You're quite entitled to your opinion. I'm sorry that you found the JAT to be so dismal. I still rather enjoy it, so long as I take it at its own level and read it as an almost comic-book-ish story. As I said, it's easier to deal with books on their own merits rather than trying to force them to fit some other, more ideal version.

Back on topic: I think it would be interesting to hear what exactly DH's conceptions of Nom Anor were. Have they said anything in particular? Or just left it at "not that."

Oh, and the decision not to have them be exiled Sith was NOT their decision. It was Lucas'; he told them they couldn't use that plotline, for whatever reason.

- Keralys

 

I don't think DH was planning to also off Chewie. I believe the quote is referring to the fact that after it was determined that the invasion was going the NJO / Vong route, DH was basically given the Chewbacca mini-series which was sort of a memorial and flashback type story, rather than something substantial to the invasion storyline. After being marginalized, my guess is that Randy and staff decided to simply avoid the NJO.

I don't think the humanoid thing lends much credence to the exiled Sith idea, as I assume that this would not be allowed by LFL regardless. My guess is that the DH concept for the invaders was probably pretty far out there, but when the Del Rey crew joined the conversation they were not as open minded to go beyond humanoids.

 

I would like to point out that the only Star wars books taht I read before TTT, JAT and HoT was the X-wing series, so I did pretty much read them in order. And IMO TTT and HoT still stand up quite well compared to the new stuff. The only (small) fallback is that they don't have the PT to build off of. IMO, Zahn, Stackpole, Allston are right up there with Stover (who I might add is the only new author who is even on their level, although Denning tries hard), and I have not read SQ, Dark Tide IMO was Stackpole's worst Star Wars, and Enemy lines is not close to Starfighters of Adumar.

And I think it'd be nice for you to remember that as much as you may have liked them, others did not. KJA sometimes (very rarely) has good ideas, but he consistantly kills them. Kyp Durron was a great character, but he became one of my least favorite characters after he became a spoiled force brat. And not only the writing sucked, pretty much everything sucked. Most importantly the plot. I can definatively state that your opinion is wrong if you act as if it were fact in your previous post

 

Now that the prequels are finished, maybe they will now end restrictions to stories and maybe DH can tell an invasion story. Maybe not after ROTJ or the NJO or LOTF eras, but nevertheless in an era.

Before some of you guys start claiming victory for DH and there comic book storyline for the clone wars, remember that we will have new clone war animation in 2007. When we combine both series (GT's Clone Wars cartoons Volume 1 and 2), we could literally end up with more than 25 hours of clone war animation with numerous stories that will probably be different than what has been done with the comic books, novels, and video games.Bear also in mind that the Clone Wars cartoon series so far have sweeped in the animation categories by winning three emmy's. If this new series is as good as many of us thinks its going to be, apart from the movies, and the first KOTOR video game, the animation for the clone wars could be the next most successful thing for the Star Wars franchise overshadowing a lot of the other mediums.

It is also of note that DH did not get the major tie-in into Episode 3 as the LOE novel, Clone Wars Volume 2 cartoon series, and the Hyperspace Reversal of Fortune story got. Furthermore in an officical poll conducted at the officical site, the Obsession storyline from DH was rated dismal and was last on the tie-in list. So not only did Dark Horse Comics get screwed from having a good tie-in into E-3, but it also seams they got screwed from there Invasion story, and ultimately will be supplanted with the new animation that is coming out in 2007.

My impression has always been that the liccenses are to work together, but aparently when you look past the surface it is not so, and the divisions show.

 

Another thought for this thread: the Zanibar mercenaries in CE2.

I have a vague idea that this may have been suggested by me, or by someone else, before...

... but...

They're tall, thin, blue-skinned humanoids with faces like skulls. No noses, rounded eyes, no lips. They also, for what it's worth, have funny little lumps on either side of their chins.

They live on a savage, unknown planet with a very nasty jungle ecosystem, and the ruins of a mountain-sized building with vast, triumphal statues of human warriors.

Their settlement is a primitive village of rounded, asymmetrical buildings built with natural materials, and their social life seems to revolve round a "ceremony" which involves slowly torturing sentient victims to death.

It's true they have a few blasters and a Corellian freighter, but I'm not suggesting they've been in contact with the rest of the Yuuzhan Vong for quite some time...

And why is Grappa's HQ in a Killik castle?

- The Imperial Ewok