Obi-Wan and Palp/Sid

Here is a thread to discuss the relationship and interaction between Obi-Wan and Palpatine. It's kind of funny because throughout the entire PT they are pretty much buddies until the end and at that point they never see eachother again.

Some funny/interesting things to me are:

Obi-Wan kneeling before Palps at the end of TPM.

Palpatine seemingly rooting for Obi during the duel with Dooku, for some odd reason.

Palpatine recommending that Obi-Wan and Anakin protect Padme, gee I wonder why he did that? How did he know? Did he know?


I could name a few other ones but feel free to discuss whatever you like in regards to their interaction.

 

Buddy buddy? On screen they really only meet twice. Once on Naboo during the resolution of the blockade and during the Battle of Coruscant. And they never see each other after is because Palpatine HATES the Jedi. He despises them.

1. Wasn't Palpatine just elected Supreme Chancellor of the Galactic Republic? I think it would be rude of a Jedi Knight not to bow before the newly elected ruler of the Republic.

2. I always thought that Palpatine was rooting for Anakin. Since the whole reason for Palpatine's "kidnapping" is for Anakin to slay Count Dooku.

3. And I guess you already know Palpatine suggested Obi-Wan becuase he knew of Anakin's attachment to Padme. Spreading the seeds of rebellion Palpatine was.

 

When I say "buddy buddy" I'm joking, of course Palpatine hates the Jedi.

I'm also not questioning the reason behind Obi bowing before him, just that it looks funny because we're used to seeing the Sith do that kind of thing.

I don't think Palpatine was rooting for either Dooku or Anakin, whoever won becomes or is his apprentice so he wins anyway.

When I say Palpy appears to be rooting for Obi its because when Obi cuts down the droids he lets out a "hurray" type noise. Then when Obi is thrown across across the room and the platform is put on top of him, Palps looks genuinely concerned and disgusted.

No one is paying any attention to him either so its not like he's acting or anything.

I wonder why this is?

 

Well I think he did want anakin to win. I think he knew that Anakin could become or already is a much stronger jedi than the old Dooku. The only reason he seemed to be cheering for Obi-Wan was because if Obi-Wan was doing good then it could only mean there would be more of a chance of Dooku dying. However Palps never liked Obi, Obi was just a toy(like many other people that associated with palps) to get his new padawan to a certain level until he decided it was time to take over. If you remember as soon as the battle ended Palps wanted to leave Obi-Wan behind to die.

 

1. I don't think Palps is cheering for Obi-Wan.
He is showing his frustration that Obi-Wan is interfering in the fight that he really wants to see which is Anakin vs Dooku. So he is kinda' cheering for Dooku to hurry up and Force-push Obi-Wan out of the way.

2. When Obi-Wan bows before Palp at the end of Phantom Menace, it's mostly because he was still recently a Padawan and is just showing his humble respect to the Republic which the Jedi are there to defend. It doesn't really show any special relationship.

3. And when Palps pairs Obi-Wan and Anakin together to look after Padme, I think he does it because he wants to see Anakin get torn between his loyalty to Obi-Wan and his obsession with Padme.

So maybe Obi-Wan has a sense that Palpatine trusts him highly as a Jedi in tpm and aotc, and this might make Obi-Wan feel respected and in-turn respectful towards Palpatine. But Palpatine is really just using Obi-Wan to get to Anakin, and Kenobi finally senses this by the time of Revenge of the Sith.

 

I thought Palps cheering on the Jedi in ROTS was a little strange.

I think Palps must HATE Obi-Wan for foiling his plans soooo many times.

That's why I love the "Sith Lords are our specialty" line.

Obi-Wan also mentions to Anakin that he doesn't trust Palpatine, noting that he is very adept at manipulating the Senate.

Then in ROTS, he tells Anakin to be careful of Palpatine.

In a strange way, the Saga (at least the PT) is really a contest between Obi-Wan and Palpatine for the soul of Anakin, not Palpatine vs. Yoda or Obi-Wan vs. Vader.

Even in the OT, Vader is constantly harping about Obi-Wan: "Obi-Wan has taught you well", "Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father", "now his failure is complete".

But that's another topic.

 

I think palpatine wanted obi-wan and anakin to gaurd padme, so that they would run into jango fett and dooku. I think he was hoping that obi-wan would get killed by one of them.

 

Come to think of it, this point isn't often discussed.

I think in Sidious's mind all Jedi were basically the same. We rarely see Jedi talking to him in his "disguised" phase, but every time we do, the Jedi are being totally used by him.

In Episode 3 he only talks to Anakin, Mace, and Obi-Wan, while in his Palpatine persona.
The similarity in all 3 Jedi's greetings shows that most Jedi were still under the "shroud of the darkside" at this stage.

On the "Invisible Hand" -

Obi-Wan: "Chancellor." *Kenobi bows*
Anakin (sympathetically): "Are you alright."
Sidious: "Dooku."

Mace Windu's first scene -

Mace: "Chancellor Palpatine. Are you alright?"
(After their conversation, Mace bows to Sidious, just as Kenobi had.)

The way Mace says "Are you alright?" is totally different to the way Anakin said it, but Mace's greeting to Palps is a combo of the greetings from the other two Jedi who speak to Palps in the movie.
Sidious answers: "Yes, thanks to your two Jedi Knights. They killed Count Dooku."
... and immediately goes on to tell Mace that the War won't end until Grievous is dead. Speaking to Skywalker and Kenobi, Sidious just tried to get them focused on Dooku, and hurried along his plan to turn Anakin. Now that this has been achieved, he's already getting the Jedi onto his next plan for them - Grievous. (Off-topic: Having the Jedi focused on Grievous is needed by Palpatine for many reasons; it distracts them from finding out Palpatine is the real reason that the war continues, it gives Sidious an opening to make Anakin jealous of Obi-Wan and the Council, it gives Sidious another opportunity to get Kenobi killed, etc.)

The similarity of Anakin's, Mace's, and Kenobi's greetings shows that most Jedi were still completely deceived by the Palpatine disguise, but more importantly that Kenobi and Windu were just "keeping up appearances" with Palpatine somewhat.



Palpatine recommending that Obi-Wan and Anakin protect Padme


Which brings me to the only other real conversation shown between "Palpatine" and the Jedi. The AotC meeting with Yoda and Mace Windu. I don't want to make my post any more confusing, so I'll just say that this again shows that the only time Sidious speaks to the Jedi (onscreen) is when he needs something from them.