Obi-Wan's Promotion to Jedi Knight

Do you think Obi-Wan's promotion from Padawan to Knight was based on
(a) Qui-Gon's death
(b) His defeat of Darth Maul
(c) The fact that it was time, and he would have gotten promoted had Qui-Gon defeated Maul before Obi got back to the fight?

I'm curious, since much of the pre-TPM lit talks about Obi being a marginal-to-decent Jedi, but nothing tremendous. I've just been thinking about all the Knights in the NJO and Legacy era who are getting/have been promoted rather young based on specific accomplishments.

Thanks,
Bob

 

Combo. A) it was about that time B) his defeat of a Sith Lord easily proved he was ready to be a Knight and C) the fact that they allowed Anakin to be trained and now it was up to Obi-Wan automatically elevated him.

 

Let me ask another way, then: if Qui-Gon's injury had not been fatal (in which case he would have trained Anakin), would Obi still have been immediately promoted, or would there have been a time-lag? Was defeating Darth Maul enough? Being a Jedi is not just swinging a sword and getting amazingly lucky that your opponent completely forgot about the Force for 3 seconds . . .

I realize, I'm asking someone to jump inside Yoda's mind, but I'm curious what other people think about this.

 

I think they would have promoted Obi Wan.

To be honest, Obi Wan kinda deserved promotion a few years ago by TPM.

 

Basically, Obi-Wan was ready by TPM but had not yet undergone his Solo Trial (that I am aware of). His defeat of Darth Maul at Naboo was used in lieu of that and he was promoted.

OTOH, it could be argued that Anakin could have been given the assignment to protect Padme as HIS Solo Trial and, had he not failed at it miserably, been Knighted a couple of years earlier than he was.

 

good points

 

Yeah, by TPM, Obi-Wan had what it took to be a Jedi Knight. He was bright, he was extremely skilled -- as Qui-Gon says, there's really nothing left to teach him, and nothing he personally was lacking. It's just that they'd never gotten around to promoting him yet, since he and Qui-Gon were such a fantastic team and such great pals that they didn't have any particular desire to break that dynamic up, and since Obi-Wan wasn't overly ambitious, he didn't care about what his status was. I get the impression that, while they both knew Obi-Wan was ready to be a Knight, both were reluctant to bring it up, because they didn't want to end the great run they were having as Master and Padawan. They liked the comfortable dynamic and great partnership they had, and they wanted to hang onto that as long as they could. It was only when something happened to change the dynamic -- when Qui-Gon found his next apprentice and so had an incentive to go ahead and promote Obi-Wan -- that things changed. That's also why Obi-Wan felt a bit betrayed and tossed aside. He knew he was ready, but he was sad to have that partnership broken up.

 

I think it was the Council's opinion of Obi-Wan that was holding him back for a couple years before TPM. The council was reluctant to send Obi-Wan along with Qui-Gon when Adi Gallia went missing, for example. Might have had something to do with Siri...

TC

 

Just a note, I got this info from Wookiepedia and I'll provide a link at the bottom of the post.

Obi-Wan passed the following Trials:

Trial of Skill

Obi-Wan dueled and defeated Darth Maul.

Trial of Flesh

Obi-Wan's loss of Qui-Gon and not giving into vengeance

Trial of Courage

Obi-Wan defeated Darth Maul

It was a combination of defeating Darth Maul, and not giving into his emotions.

Here's the link to where I got the info:

 

Aye. This is spot on, in my opinion.

 

Actually, he did:

When he first began to attack, he was not in control of himself. While it might not be considered that he fell, he did touch the Dark Side. He fought while in the grip of his emotions; and as we all know, once you start down that path, forever will it dominate your destiny. How much of the ultimate issues Anakin had with his anger, are due to the lingering after effects of Obi-Wan's brush with the Dark?

 

None, in my opinion.

 

Obi-Wan's brush with the Dark was brief and taught him his lesson. He fell into an elevator shaft. That wakes most people up. He came to his senses and realized what was happening and was able to prevail against Darth Maul on sheer force of Will.

 

What the heck are the Jedi Trials anyway? lol. it's almost like they don't tell you until after you've done them.

 

"Finished your trails have you!" yoda
obi-wan "I started them?"
yoda "Already finished them have you"
obi-wan "When"
yoda "matters not when you took them, matters that you have finished them"
obi-wan......"right"

 

There's a list in the Power of the Jedi sourcebook which was really deep into the culture of a Jedi, from Padawan through Master and after.

 

B is my opinion.

 

More specifically he is the only jedi in the hundreds of years since the last Sith War who fought and killed a Sith Lord, something that is apparently seen as a big thing in even thirteen years later in LoE.

 

Its actually about thousand years. Obi-wan is the first Jedi to killed a sith and live to tell about it since The final battle of Russan. He was ready as Qui-gon let the council know and according to the books set pre TPM and just post TPM, Jinn wasn't just saying that so that the council would let him train Anakin.

 

I suspect if Qui Gon survives, Obi-wan is still promoted because:

A)He still was involved with a Sith and survived...probably a greater challenge then any "trial"...they probably aren't lethal.

B)Obi-wan's promotion would be essential to Qui Gon being able to train Anakin.

-----------------

Now on the matter of Obi-wan and Qui Gon not "breaking up the band."

there is more too it then simply "we make a good team" vibes. Despite his praise of Obi-wan, Qui Gon is continuing to train Obi-wan throughout TPM...From his comments on the "living force" near the beginning...to their discussions about who/what Anakin might be...these aren't the conversations of teammates, but master and student.

Ready to be a Jedi Knight he may have been...but ready to "not" be trained by one of the best Masters of the order...nah...and it was rightly said that "title" didn't bear much weight on Obi-wan...though he is happy to know Qui Gon thinks he's prepared for the trials, don't forget...but that might be as much about his master's praise as it is about the position.

And where does this "betrayl" stuff come from? I have never gotten the sense that Obi-wan was upset for a second that Qui Gon would choose to train Anakin, thus ending Obi's apprenticeship...Obi-wan's concerns were in regards to the council's wishes and the future of the boy, not his own master/padawan situation.

All that said...why is it assumed that by raising Obi-wan to Knight that it would separate Qui gon and Obi-wan? Would they be joined at the hip...no...but an effective team is an effective team...Obi-wan and Anakin are still a team in ROTS, even though Anakin has become a knight.

I could easily see Qui Gon having Anakin as a Padawan, and often joined by Obi-wan.

Now the more interesting question would be...would Obi-wan, upon ascension to Knight have taken a Padawan as quickly as he did had it not been Anakin or Qui Gon died? I suspect not.

 

It comes from the look on Obi-Wan's face when Qui-Gon says that he'll train Anakin in the Council Chambers. And the look on Qui-Gon's face when he glances at Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan was hurt and Qui knew it and yet didn't apologize or explain himself. It took Obi-Wan to apologize (and he wasn't the one who needed to) before they were really talking again. Don't get me wrong. I adore Qui-Gon but he could really be an idiot sometimes.


I think Obi-Wan was ready for the trials and his defeat of Maul was just the icing on the cake. I do think they might have gone on a number of missions after he was knighted had Qui-Gon not died or had Anakin in the way.

 

Nope...I knew that would come up...that comes up following the conversation about "going against the council".

"I shall do what I must"

and then he does...and Obi-wan apologizes for momentarily slipping in support of his master for the sake of honoring the council's decision...as a padawan, it's not his place to disagree with his master, even in the face of the council...that is why he apologizes...and that is why Obi-wan also chirps up immediately to state he is ready for the trials...he does it to support his master's position, even though from the moment of "surprise", we know he didn't agree with it.

Obi-wan was NEVER jealous of Anakin...not for a second...in his whole life...to think so would validate every paranoid fantasy Anakin ever had.

 

It's in the novelization.

 

Strangely, you could almost say that the Jedi Council may have seen Obi-Wan as a sort of grounding factor for Qui-Gon. Otherwise Qui-Gon might have been one of those Jedi that paid no heed to the Council and just wandered about the Galaxy as the Force guided them like Master Zao or those 4 or 5 Jedi that died getting the cure for that plague in Clone Wars vol 1 comics.

In a way, Obi-Wan was the Robin to Qui-Gon's Batman.

 

I kinda see the Obi-Wan & Qui-Gon/ Batman & Robin comparison.

I think Obi-Wan was ready for the trials when Qui-Gon said he was. At first it seems like Qui-Gon is just saying that to be able to train Anakin. Also I think the council knew Obi-Wan was almost ready, it was just the major event like the duel with Darth Maul to complete it.