*OFFICIAL THREAD* Symbolism in the Revenge Of The Sith.

This is the catch all symbolism thread, regarding the film and the novel. This is to discuss the intentional and unintentional symbolism in ROTS. some examples, Yoda's cloak, the 9/11 imagery of the temple raid, dialouge, etc.

I reposted thanks to Jedi master ousley (thanks again!)

 

^^^^

Um, I had a small hand in it too........lol

 

I'm going to make this the official thread about symbolism in ROTS. All old threads about symbolism will be left open, and all new ones will be redirected here.

 

^^^^

He's da man.

 

The piece of symbolism which stands out the most for me is the low angle shot of Obi-Wan drawing his saber on Mustafar when he says "Only a Sith deals in absolutes...". You can see the sun shining through the hazey sky down upon him. The symbolism is obvious given who he is, where he is and who he's about to fight.

The Force will be with him, always.

 

One shot that really strikes me as thre light side fading away from Anakin,, is on Mustafar again(mustafar does have the best scenes in thi sfilm). Where he is looking of into the hellish sky, the sun is shown (symbolizing light) far off, and it pans back down to the tear in his eye. Love that.

 

Aww, if only I hadn't been lazy, else this thread could have been mine.

Definitely a lot of symbolism in the film. I remember the old Attack of the Clones symbolism thread, and I hope this one does equally well.

 

Of all the symbolic things in RotS, I don?t think there is anything more symbolic than the helmet being lowered onto Darth Vader and hearing his first breath. It?s one of those things that gives you chills every time you see it.

 

the Pocket from Malastaire agrees. The lowering of the helmet is truly one of the most anticipated and brilliant scenes in cinematic history!

 

Is this thread about GLs intended symbolism or anything even remotely symbolic, like Jar-Jars stepping in the icky, icky goo being symbolic of all the crap to follow ?

 

well mr pooduu considering that was TPM with JAr JAr than no. But anything goes in ROTS symbolism, as long as it doesn't come nito conflict with TFN user terms of course.

 

the Pocket from Malastaire agrees. The lowering of the helmet is truly one of the most anticipated and brilliant scenes in cinematic history!

Could'nt agree more Senior Pocket.

 

GL introduces the midiclorians in tpm as a symbol of symbiosis and duality. Symbiosis is also shown between the Sith, there must be a master and an apprentice, always two there are. It also rings true for the Jedi; a master and a padawan. In ROTS we see this duality in an individual; there is the public face of Palpatine which shrouds the hidden face of Sidious. There is also of course, the moment between Anakin and Padme, as she dies so does Anakin as he becomes Darth Vader(suited).

In the OT there is a theme of being consumed throughout the saga: being swallowed by the DS in ANH, the Sarlacc etc. Throughout the PT the theme is falling. Maul falling down the shaft, Anakin falling(jumping really) during the speeder chase, and in ROTS Windu falls to his death after taking a good dose of lightning. This in particular is the turning moment in ROTS. Anakin made up his mind before that moment, but it is not until he has a hand in Windu's downfall that all hell breaks loose; he has fallen to the darkside. Also, Yoda loses his battle to Sidious after he takes a fall in the Seante chamber. The Sith have risen and the Jedi have fallen.

 

So I guess after the fall into the belly of the beast, then it's about can it swallow you or not? I can roll with that analysis.

 

I highly doubt this was intended symbolism, but when Anakin said to Obi-Wan, "If you are not with me then you are my enemy," it echoed President Bush's "Either you're with us or you're against us" from way back then. Again, I doubt that punditry on current US foreign policy could -- or should -- have a place in a "Star Wars" movie, nor do I want this thread to turn into a debate over it; but still, halfway through that sentence I was going, "aw, s#!%, please don't say what I think you're gonna say."

As for more symbolism, it was very powerful seeing Palpatine using Senate boxes as weapons against Yoda, just as he used his power in the Senate against the Jedi Order. Also, I found it very powerful to see two blue lightsabers in combat on the primarily orange-colored planet of Mustafar. Orange and blue are very different colors, especially in those particular shades, so that really is a striking visual. To me it signified that the rest of the galaxy's current turmoil (i.e., the orange lava of the planet) was going on all around Anakin and Obi-Wan, but it didn't matter, because this fight had become very, very personal. Nothing else but their conflict matter to them, which is why it stood out so much from the background fighting, just as their lightsaber blades stood out against the lava.

 

Well. I can think of two "visual symbols" that really stood out for me. When Anakin has his first meeting with the Chancellor in his office, they walk towards the camera, both in black and they already look like a Sith Master and Apprentice, and the screen turns very dark. Also, when Anakin has just said good-bye to Obi-Wan, there's a shot where he looks exactly like Luke in a similar pose in ROTJ. Though perhaps these are more foreshadowing than symbolic.....or maybe a bit of both.

 

the scenes where the clones turn on the jedi is really powerful and moving, probably because of 'Anakin's betrayal' being played in the scenes.

 

Good observation. I was just watching TPM last night and remarked on all the falling in the final duel.

I wonder if the various forms of falling portrayed can be correlated to how much control the person falling has over their immediate future.

To quote VadersLament's ROTS example: Mace falls symbolizing the Jedi's loss of control to Sidious.

 

symbolism thread ay?

I've mentioned this in other posts.
Obi-Wan and height is an important theme in the duels in ep1 and 3. Even kicks in the fight have meaning if you look at how similar some shots are.

Obi-Wan falling after being kicked by Maul in ep1 actually indirectly leads to Qui-Gon's death, because it seperates Obi-Wan from the fight, and due to the ray-shields he doesn't catch up to them in time.
Something I only recently noticed is how similar Maul's back-kick to Obi-Wan (that knocks him out of the fight), is to Dooku's back kick to Anakin in episode 3 (the one he does so he can knock Obi-Wan out of the fight again!). I looked at the ep3 shot again and the 3 characters are in a mirror of the ep 1 shot;
ep1 - Obi-Wan being kicked to the left, and off a ledge. Qui-Gon knocks Maul down kind of vengefully for Obi-Wan/
ep3 - Anakin being kicked to the right, into a corner. Dooku then throws Obi-Wan over a ledge (again!). Anakin then kicks Dooku over the ledge vengefully.
In the ep3 scene Dooku is in place of Maul, Anakin in place of Obi-Wan, and Obi-Wan in place of Qui-Gon. I think a cool parallel between the scenes is that while Obi-Wan takes a huge fall and crunch both times, in episode 1 he recovers instantly, but in episode 3 he passes out.

 

Talking about symbols, Palpatine's Symbolism of the Devil/Satan can be very strong if looked at with the right attitude.
Also, anyone notice the symbols on his Red Sith cloak in the senate? They look like serpents, more satanic symbols perhaps? Also he is in red, like the stereotypical Devil.
Also Order 66 (6)
Palpatine taking the Souls of those who have commited a sin (Anakin killing Dooku) (Dooku Killed Sypho Dias) (Maul who knows what he did?) (Nute Gunray- Greed) to the Dark Side, or to Hell.
Mustufar is a symbol of Hell, all of the seperatists are there.
Anakin goes to Hell (Mustufar)

 

Absolute BS. I get downright furious every time someone claims that's a connection. For crying out loud, there's no political "jabs" in this movie. Just for once, can't people take a film at face value? You might as well say that Palpy and Mace's "He's a traitor!" "HE IS THE TRAITOR!!" echoes Nixon saying "I'm not a crook."

As far as actual symbolism, Grievous is an obvious one as a mirror of Vader; GL has said so himself (Webdoc #4: "He's an alien in a droid shell, which is sort of an echo what Anakin is going to become."), although really, Palpatine's first three pawns (Maul, Dooku and Grievous) all have certain elements of Vader, and when combined you have the ultimate pawn. Think about it: Maul has the rage and fury of Vader; Dooku has the style, banter and arrogance; and Grievous is a broken down sack of guts, more machine than man...and Vader, of course, is every one of these things put together.

 

Absolute BS. I get downright furious every time someone claims that's a connection. For crying out loud, there's no political "jabs" in this movie. Just for once, can't people take a film at face value?

From Hayden himself:

When the Ottawa Sun asked Christensen if the flick ?takes metaphoric shots at the war-mongering politics of U.S. presidents Richard Nixon and the two George Bushes? the star answered: ?Absolutely.?

He went on to say that he thinks that some people who weren?t American allies in the Iraq war will love ?Revenge of the Sith? because of it.

?I think for that reason the French will be really responsive to it,? Christensen said. ?I think they?ll get it. They?ll get the political commentary and the subtext. Anakin says: ?If you?re not with me, you?re my enemy!? I think they?ll love it.??

Many people have observed the similarities between Anakin/Vader's lines and Bush. "I have brought peace, freedom, justice and security to my new Empire." also sounds very much like the language Bush uses. Considering Lucas' political leanings this is not surprising. So it's not "Absolute BS."

 

My favourite piece of symbolism which stood out straight away and which isnt another 9/11 suggestion, is the way the sun is surrounded by cloud and smoke on Mustafa.

- there remains light - a hope.

Though does the sun get totally blocked out by the end? Cant remember...will have to check it.

 

Building on the "falling" theme:

The destruction of the Jedi Order starts with our main Jedi, Kenobi, falling into the abyss.

- O_F

 

Shaitan I totally agree, what a great shot! Never thought of it as a lasting hope, to me it was the last bit of lightside leaving Anakin.