Amph On Earth, Everyone Can Hear You Scream: The Prometheus / Alien Discussion Thread (Romulus, Earth)

Let's be even more honest here - Prometheus and Covenant were, themselves, massive retcons. The "Space jockey" was NOT a suit. It was the fossilized remains of an alien species. That's in the original script, and in dialogue in the movie. The derelict vessel on LV-426 had been there a very long time. The Prometheus prequel films are Ridley Scott's revisionist take on the original story. I still like the films, but they were not lining up the way that Ridley was going about it. They could still be "fixed" with the right story, but not with the idea that David created the Xenomorph. Noah Hawley is absolutely correct. And I hope that this new series will find a way to merge the two lores into a cohesive single lore.

All they would have to do is say that the Engineers discovered the Xenos, and experimented with their DNA, and created the "black goo" by combing the Xenos DNA with their own. Then say that David was successful in rediscovering the original DNA, and creating his own Xenomorph. That would fix the discrepancy and make all of the films work.

You could also add that the Predator Yauja also discovered the Xenomorphs, and spread them around the galaxy for hunting purposes. Pitting the "Perfect organism" against the "Perfect hunter". It all works, and expands the lore in a way that is inclusive, instead of contradictory.

 

Well, Predator cheats because they're barely connected with next to no repeat characters .

 

"Predators" and "The Predator" would like a word.

By "cheats" I think you mean "Have found a perfect way to cull the weak films from the franchise herd".

 

Only in that they’re not obligated to build off of previous films. As much I would love for them to cull P4. We can just pretend the Murder Child and his Iron Man family are chilling out somewhere… somewhere over there.

Still continuing the Ripley story and directly following up on events in Alien 3.

 

Yes, but badly.

 

What I mean is that "Predators" and "The Predator" made additions to the lore that were...additions.

The "Super Predators" off-shoot species was unnecessary, and the "Mutant Super Mega Predator" was just...a Shane Black idea.

 

But my point is that, if you change out the Super-Predators for regular Predators, the film doesn't change. They could have just been "Bad Bloods". The Super-Predator idea doesn't add anything substantial. It's unnecessary to the story they were telling. It was just an example of Hollywood's "Escalation theory". Everything has to be bigger, badder, more in sequels. It's not a philosophy I agree with, or care for. Another example of the off-shoot idea is what they did with the "Feral Predator" in "Prey", though that still didn't change the story in any meaningful way. It was just a redesign.

A good example of a meaningful lore addition would be the inclusion of the Queen in "Aliens". It gives the audience new information, and a new type of Alien, that follows logically from the previous film, is important to the plot of the current film, and doesn't contradict previous lore.

 

Well, that's exactly what Ridley did. Like I said, I like Prometheus and Covenant. but Ridley started the contradictions.

But, I agree with you that I don't want Alien: Earth to compound the problem. That WILL just create more of a mess. Hopefully, since he spoke with Ridley, he will try to make it all work in a logical way. Fingers crossed.

 

Agreed. That's why Alien: Earth has made me nervous from the beginning. If I didn't like Noah Hawley so much, I would be pretty cynical about it.

 

I wouuld posit that the Mega-Predator was their attempt at doing what Aliens did for Xenos with the Queen. They simply failed.

 

They also broke the cardinal rule for everything. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". The Predators aren't "broke". They don't need an "upgrade".

The Predators and the Alien xenomorphs are the two coolest alien species of any franchise, imo. You don't need to mess with them. Just write a good story to put them in.

 

At the same time, you want people to take risks. The Xeno was perfect. Then Cameron made the Queen, which was even better (or, at least, showing that it could be done). They tried to top them again with the Newborn and failed. Circle back around and now we have the Offspring, which isn't better than the Xeno, but an improvement over the Newborn (but also not trying to one-up the Queen, either, which balances its perception better).

The Yautja is an amazing design. But maybe you can tweak or iterate on the ideas it holds. You won't know until you try. The notion of Predators trying to improve themselves to be better hunters holds merit (as we see they have upgraded themselves through technology over the centuries). It's all in the execution. And the Upgrade Predator (as is apparently its official description) simply was not it. Because it's not about making Predators bigger and badder that makes them such a threat. It's their tech and their intelligence. Making him 4 feet taller than a regular one (and doing so through a fully CG creation in a franchise all about the practical creature effects) isn't that.

Thankfully, it seems the Upgrade assassin was intended to be more of a one-off, a cheater frowned upon by most by overlooked by his clan. So he falls more into a Newborn/Offspring category. Still, they did very little to play around with that notion in order to salvage it in any interesting way.

 

Agreed.

I don't consider that an "upgrade", because of how it fits with the first film. Exactly what you said about execution. Cameron used what was already there. As they said in the film, there are thousands of eggs in the ship, so "Who's laying all these eggs?". The Queen is a logical extension of what was established in the first film. And it doesn't change the original Xeno. It just shows us that there is another type. That's what the "Super-Predators" were supposed to be in "Predators", but the "Feral Predator" executed the idea a lot better. The "Super-Predators" were an example of the "Escalation theory" that I don't like.

The Predators don't need to be bigger or meaner, they need to be developed in interesting ways as a species. The books, comics, and games have done this pretty successfully, but Hollywood never seems to learn it's lesson for long. It always reverts back to "It needs to be bigger, and meaner".

 

.... ... .... ... .... ... (ME).... .... .. .(HATING ON THE UPGRADE PREDATOR) ... ... .. ... (YOU)

 

The "Egg-Morphing" isn't really a theory I support. It's a two second shot, that is open to interpretation. To my knowledge, it's never been more than a fan theory. I definitely don't consider it canon, at this time.