Origin of the typical Sith robes - linked with "Darths" and funerary garments?

The typical black hooded robe of a 'modern' Sith Lord, worn by Darth Sidious, Darth Plagueis, Darth Zannah, Darth Bane, and many more... What everyone thinks (or at least what I think, and what I think everyone thinks also) when someone says "Sith Master." Where did this robe come from?

Looking at TOTJ, I'm beginning to think the black hooded Sith robe has origins in what I'm presuming to be Sith funerary garments. Take a look at the funeral of Marka Ragnos, here, here and here. In Image 1, look at the figures bearing the casket. And in the other images, they're present too. Sith dressed in what look very similar to the typical 'modern Sith' black robe. The only difference I see is that it's brown (but then again Palpatine also had a brown-grey and red variant of the black Sith robe, worn when he fights Yoda), and some of them seem to wear veils, but one of them in the last image doesn't seem to. Compare that to the robes worn by nearly every Sith of the era. Naga Sadow's, Ludo Kressh's, Marka Ragnos', Freedon Nadd's, Exar Kun's, all completely different. As many people say, they look like Egyptian pharaohs. Could this be the origin of the black hooded robe of a 'modern Sith?' Robes worn at a funeral for a fallen Sith Lord?

It wouldn't surprise me, if the 'Darth sect' theory is true, that the aforementioned Sith sect eventually chose to wore what were usually funerary robes in some sort of symbol of 'triumph over death,' if Darth does come from the Rakatan 'darr tah.' I know this is all rather speculative, but it's the first instance of a Sith wearing a dark, hooded Sith robe very similar to those worn by Palpatine. We then see DARTH Revan, DARTH Traya and DARTH Nihilus all wear variants on the typical hooded Sith robe; Revan's are also armored with a mask, Traya's and Nihilus' also have some resemblance to Jedi robes, with the latter also having a mask, but it's more similar to the typical modern black hooded robe than what all Sith before them (except for those Sith at the funeral) wore. Hmmmmm...

 

Which came first?
Palpatine wearing the Zeyed-robes, or the comic?


My guess is Palpatine was, and the comic artists took inspiration from that.

 

I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but I was talking in-universe here. Just speculating about where the Sith robes of the Banite Order came from, and the earliest I see something like them (in the Star Wars universe timeline) is 5,000 BBY, at the funeral of Marka Ragnos.

An interesting thing is that most Darths seem to prefer the Palpatine-like black hooded robe, whereas non-Darths go for many different designs, although it's often ancient Egyptian in style.

Another interesting point? Darth Andeddu, quite possibly the first Darth, (who is the only Darth I know of that wears 100% ancient Sith style garments) buried himself alive, well, hardly alive, but you know what I mean, on Prakith. Perhaps there's a connection between this and why the typical black hooded robe seems so similar to ancient Sith robes that were originally funerary garments?

 

Before I try to contribute to this thread, what exactly is the "Darth Sect" theory? I've seen it referenced a few times, but have never been able to get the full picture.

 

Zorrixor, Ulicus and BobaMatt (the main proponents of the Darth sect theory) would probably be able to explain it better, but the Darth sect theory is a theory that there are various sects among the Sith, one of which is the Darth sect, whose members take the title Darth and hold a certain ideology unique to the sect. The general consensus seems to be this ideology is pursuit of power above all else, and not sharing it with anybody else, and stuff we see in Bane's Order of the Sith Lords. And something to do with seeking immortality too. There's many more theories about when and how and where the Darth sect was founded. The most common seem to be that Darth Andeddu invented it after the Hundred Year Darkness, or that Adas (or his successor) started it all by accepting Rakatan beliefs and ideology. It's often linked with the true Sith as well.

I'm very fond of the Darth sect theory myself, as I think it explains a lot.

But if you want to know all about the Darth sect theory, and read the thread that converted me to the Darth sect theory religion, then click here... Wherefore Art Thou Darth. (Wow, that sounded like a cheesy American commercial). It holds some of my favorite fan theories about the Sith.

 

Oh, that's easy! Bane donned the robes to conceal his orbalisk armor. And Zannah wore dark robes to make it easier to blend into the background/ shadows etc. Cognus just followed her Master's lead...

 

One small problem with that theory? Darth Bane was not the first. Darth Ruin and Darth Rivan both wore the same kind of hooded Sith robe. There has to be a reason why several dozen Sith Lords (presumably all or most of the Banite Order) all wore the same kind of hooded robe.

 

You are confusing me now...
Your initial post said: 'Modern Sith' x2.
Your second post said: 'speculating... where the Sith robes of the Banite Order came from'

Bane needed to cover himself up, and Zannah wanted to conceal her beauty... so dressing in simple dark robes, makes sense. I see no grand-relation between what Marka Ragnos wore(or any other ancient Sith for that matter), and the Banites and their robes. The Sith were outcast Jedi, so it also can be argued that they chose darker garments in an effort to distinguish themselves from their brown and light-robed past.

When I read those comics ten years ago, those palbearers seemed like faceless slaves to me.
And looking at them now, they really don't strike me any differently.

Kaan, Qordis and the rest of brotherhood of idiots were into expensive, exotic materials. Bane was not. I can't recall ever reading about the brotherhood running around in matching dark robes... so I don't see the link going backwards to the ancients... but as I've mentioned with the Orbalisks and Zannah... I can see the connection as it moved forward towards Palpatine. Maybe I'm just too close-minded.

 

If we are going to try to link the black Sith robes in anything more than it being an OOU aesthetic choice, I would say that it makes the most sense in regards to the Banite Sith line. First of all, like Triple-S said, the Sith have to hide in plain sight. Zannah's looks would draw the attention of males, and Bane, well, is covered in parasitic armor. Not to mention the fact that he is taller and more built than your average human in the GFFA, so he stands out in a crowd anyway. The Banites would use the simple black robes (which could also be seen as a mockery of the Jedi, since these robes are a dark version of Jedi robes) to hide from their enemies, disappearing into the crush of galactic civilization. I imagine that, after a while, it almost became a kind of uniform, which could be passed along (the aesthetics, not the literal garments...eww...) to the successors-since, unlike before Darth Bane, the Sith have a close, unbroken line of succession running for a millennium. Like the bloodshine blade (I swear it says something to that effect in the visual dictionary), the black robes could have become a staple of the order, one of the idiosyncrasies that helped to discreetly set them apart from the rest of the galaxy.

It would be interesting if a link could be proved between the robes of the Banites and the robes of the ancient Sith, but I honestly think it's mainly for aesthetics.

 

I was meaning 'Sith after 2,000 BBY' when I said 'modern Sith.' I should have made that more clear, sorry.

Bane and Zannah starting the whole thing because they wanted to hide is unlikely as Darth Ruin and Darth Rivan also wore the same kind of hooded robe. Check here and here. Also, when Palpatine became Emperor, he wore the Sith hooded robe, even a royal red variety in his big speech to the Senate. Darth Ruin, Darth Rivan, Darth Bane, Darth Zannah, Darth Cognus, Darth Millenial, Darth Vectivus, Darth Plagueis, Darth Sidious, Darth Maul and even Darth Tyranus on occasion all wore a black (sometimes dark brown or gray) hooded robe. The first two are not of Bane's Order either. We also do see Darth Revan, Darth Traya and Darth Nihilus wear variants on the theme. And of course there's the Dark Council in the TOR comic, and the Sith Lord in the "Decieved" trailer, who all wear black hooded Sith robes as well. This is clearly nothing to do with Bane's Sith, and likely not borrowing Jedi garments either since Jedi at the time of the Second Great Schism wore very different kinds of robes.

So, we need to look for a good in-universe explanation. The first appearance of that kind of Sith robe are the aforementioned Sith at Ragnos' funeral. There's a lot of them, too, and most aren't carrying the sarcophagus, so I doubt they're all slaves; two of them are very near Ludo Kressh, and there's a dozen or so... I doubt so many Sith slaves would attend, considering the slaves sealed away in Ragnos' tomb look completely different.

 

I think the clearest clue comes from the ESB script: A twelve-foot hologram of the Galactic Emperor materializes before Vader. The Emperor's dark robes and monk's hood are reminiscent of the cloak worn by Ben Kenobi.

There are also a number of Expanded Universe references to a black cloak being a symbol of a Jedi Master's rank in some parts of the Order.

Now, of course, there are several points at which the Jedi could have supplied a cultural influence like this (the Exiles, Revan, the Brotherhood, and possibly even, considering Tyranus, somewhere later) but there's also the practical reason - these robes are typically worn by travellers, and provide a combination of anonymity in a crowd and iconic recognazibility when stepping out of it...

So, at whatever stage it was introduced, and whether it was an imitation or a continuation, a practical borrowing or an ideological statement, the explanation is simple: the Sith wear hooded robes because Jedi do.

Either that, or it's just because people do.

- The Imperial Ewok

 

Like a blue-furred, red-eyed Ewok?

 

That's along the lines of what I was saying, though I feel that it may be more a deliberate mockery of the usual brown Jedi cloak and white Jedi robes.

On the idea of a black cloak being the symbol of a Jedi Master's office, every Jedi Apprentice book with Qui-gon on the cover had him sporting a black cloak. The exception was "The Call to Vengeance", and he was uncloaked on that cover. Hmm...

 

The Sith originally were Jedi. I always took the black robes to be a twisted version of the Jedi robes.

But if you go looking back to TOTJ to the Sith, also look at the Jedi. They didn't wear brown robes universally anymore than the Sith of that era wore black ones. KOTOR kinda gives us the origins of the brown robs w/ Lucian. The Jedi are said to wear their robes symbolic of a vow of poverty and dress similar to the more common people in the galaxy. Its funny though that you never see anyone dressed like a Jedi but a Jedi. Unless it's Uncle Owen.

 

What about the hooded Sith on the cover of the Lost Tribe of the Sith ebooks?

TC

 

Exactly my point. Okay, I mean, I might not have ever stated that was my point, but trust me, it was. Maybe. Regardless, it is now.

Check out Jedi apparel around 6,900 BBY, the last contact the Dark Jedi who subjugated the Sith species had with the Jedi: http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/Cull_Tremayne/Schism1.jpg. That is not anything like the robes we see during the Thousand-Year Peace or the Rise of the Empire eras, not even during the KOTOR era either. Compare those Jedi robes to the Sith funerary garments we see in 5,000 BBY, just before the borders of the Sith Empire and the Republic met: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/a/a5/RagnosFuneral.jpg. Now, those robes are the first appearance of a long, flowing and all-concealing dark robe with a deep hood which we later see, with minor variations from Sith to Sith, being worn by all of the Sith Lords of Bane's Order that we know of, and several Sith of the Draggulch Period, including Darth Ruin and Darth Rivan, not to mention the Sith Lord of the TOR "Deceived" trailer and the Dark Council in the web comic. These robes are in existence in some form or another well before Jedi started to wear similar style robes, and these robes were worn by the Sith even while they were in exile. So, Bane wanting to hide his orbalisk armor or the ancient Sith copying Jedi robes aren't adequate explanations in my opinion.

 

Oh, good one. That confirms it, the classic Sith hooded robe was used fairly commonly during the Golden Age of the Sith.

 

How many thousands of years can something be in fashion? In KOTOR the video game Sith wore hoods, but not cloaks. In the Golden Age of the Sith, why wear a hooded cloak? Why hide your identity? They lived in their own sector of space and didn't deal with the Jedi, just each other. It was a whole civilization of Sith.

Dooku didn't wear one. Maul wore one to hide his tattoos. Palpatine wore one because he looked like a raisin. Otherwise, Palps ruled the galaxy, why hide himself? I don't think its a cult thing more than it is a practical thing. Sith wear red too, not just black. Hmm... Vader would look pretty cool with some red in his armor.

Jedi like to play it mysterious just as much as the Sith, only they wear brown for the reasons I said before.

 

Doesn't work, I'm afraid.

First off, Palpatine did not need the hooded robe to hide his face; in The Phantom Menace, he is not disfigured at all. It would also be pretty stupid to get tattoos only to hide them, aside from the fact that many Zabraks had tattoos (although Maul's were Sith in origin, no one would know it). I think the impression we're supposed to get is that this is typical fashion for the Sith as it were at the time. Also, Count Dooku had to dress like nobility from Serenno rather than a Dark Lord of the Sith, so he tended to avoid the typical Sith robe. However, that does not mean he did not wear one on occasion. Take a look at this picture: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/e/ee/Dooku_Ziro_close_dealings.jpg.

Now, as you say, why bother hiding your identity in the Old Sith Empire? There's no need, is there? Yet such robes were worn by the Sith of that era, apparently quite commonly! Although most Sith Lords preferred Egyptian-style robes to flaunt their power and wealth, like this, we also see this and this (on the latter image, it's the one on the right of Ludo Kressh. That is indisputably the dark hooded robe worn by later Sith.

Not only that, but when the Old Sith Empire returns in TOR, we see the Dark Council and the Sith Emperor wearing hooded, black, all-concealing robes as well. Take a look here. And then we have the Sith Lord in the Decieved trailer here. Remember, aside from the Great Hyperspace War and possibly Revan and the Exile, the Old Sith Empire had never came into contact with Jedi before, and before 5,000 BBY Jedi wore very different kinds of robes than we see in KOTOR and in the movies. All this makes it very unlikely the Sith copied the Jedi style.

We then see Darth Ruin wearing the typical Sith hooded robe, Darth Rivan, Darth Bane, Darth Zannah, Darth Cognus, Darth Millenial, Darth Vectivus, Darth Plagueis (notice Palpatine in the picture is not wearing one, perhaps implying it is not worn by an apprentice who has not yet become a Darth?), and then of course [link=http://images1.wi

 

Darth Sidious wore the hooded robe to hide the fact that he's really Palpatine. He wasn't Emperor yet and the Jedi were all still alive. In the scene at the end of TCWs we, the viewer aren't meant to know his identity yet either even though older fans know from the EU who he is. All he needed was Nute Gunray telling the Jedi who he is. And Once he was Emperor he didn't rule as Emperor Darth Sidious, he ruled as Emperor Palpatine and he hide "the scars the Jedi gave to him." Before he became a rasin, Palpatine never wore a black hooded robe like Maul's or whoever's. It was all part of the "sacrifice" he made for the people.

 

Darth Sidious wore the hooded robe and it also hid the fact that he was Senator Palpatine? Sure. But he did not wear it because of that fact and only that fact, considering dozens of Sith before him wore the same black hooded robe, including his master, Darth Plagueis. This was the Sith uniform of the day, as it were, and it was in use less often even five millennia before the Galactic Empire.

 

IMHO it just matches with the Sith Lords.. especially the Banites' Sith to be in black robes. It suits them. Their identity.