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Ozzels fatal mistake - was it really that bad?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Daft-Vader, Oct 8, 2008.

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  1. Daft-Vader

    Daft-Vader Chosen One star 8

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    Aug 6, 2008
    How bad was Ozzels fatal mistake really I mean Darth Vader claims he is as clumsy and stupid. Howvere, I feel that it was un fair.:

    The Mistake:

    Supposedly coming out of Lightspeed to close to Hoth, alerting the rebels who put up a shield over the the base:

    Veers: Comm-Scann has detected an energy shield protecting an area of the sixth planet of the Hoth Sustem. It is strong enough to deflect any bombardment.

    Vader: The Rebels are alerted to our peresence. Admiral Ozzel caim out of lightspeed to close to the system.

    Veers: He felt surprise was wiser then...

    Vader: He is clumsy as he is stupid.

    The point I feel is that Vader believes that the energy shield was made operatial because the rebels noticed the Star Destroyers. However, the Rebels already knew that the Empire had found the base through the Probe Droid - surely they would have kept the shield up as soon as this, before the Star Destroyers even came out of Hyperspace?

    The reason for his strangulation being not just that but also the fact that he openly disagreed with Vader in front of other officers about the rebels not being on Hoth.

    Daft-Vader
     
  2. -polymath-

    -polymath- SFF:F/TV Trivia Host star 4 VIP - Game Host

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    Jun 7, 2007
    Maybe it was merely a pretext for Vader to kill Ozzel and install Piett to a position that Vader felt Piett was worthy of. Who knows? I've often wondered how it was a mistake to come out of hyperspace close to the system. Does it take a long time to charge up weapons when coming out of hyperspace? I don't know. If you come out of hyperspace far away from the system, are you undetectable as you approach a planet? I guess if you come out of hyperspace a ways off, then you can target and bombard a location. Anyway...
     
  3. rumsmuggler

    rumsmuggler Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 31, 2000
    It doesn't matter how bad Ozzel's mistake was. Vader must have thought that it was a big enough mistake, so Ozzel was choked to death and placed Piett as Admiral.

    If you choose to count the EU into it, then Ozzel was known by many to be inept and got ahead due to his name and his family being wealthy..

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kendal_Ozzel
     
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  4. GrandAdmiral_Frank

    GrandAdmiral_Frank Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Aug 26, 2003
    I see it as Vader probably didn't want Ozzel around and found a reason to kill him. It'd be like if someone fired you at work for not having your nametag on right as you clocked in but that person wanted you gone so they went by the book and fired you off something little. In this case it was probably against their strategy to come in so close to Hoth but not a huge error but Vader said he still shouldn't have done it and killed the guy. Plus it lets others know not to piss him off.
     
  5. DarthLassic007

    DarthLassic007 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2002
    I don't know why, but I think I read somewhere in the EU that Ozzel may have done it on purpose to give the rebels a chance. But other EU sources claim that he hated the rebels.
     
  6. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 2, 2007
    If the Imperials had dropped out of hyperspace further out, they could have disguised their approach. As General Rieekan said, "With all the meteor activity in this system, it's going to be difficult to spot approaching ships."

    Ozzel decided instead to drop out of hyperspace close to the system and launch a surprise attack. Speed vs stealth. Vader preferred the stealthy approach in this case, while Ozzel wanted more speed.
     
  7. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000
    Sure it was. Ozzel basically had a plan that he didn't bother telling Vader about:

    What Vader wanted to happen:

    Lord Vader and many of his top officers had planned a sneak attack, jumping out of hyperspace at some distance from the planet and taking advantage of the fact that the meteor activity made it difficult for the Rebels to spot approaching ships. They would then initiate limited long-range orbital bombardment to destroy any spacecraft and defenses, followed by a sweeping ground assault to capture any survivors.

    What Ozzel decided should happen: (You know, blatantly ignoring direct orders and all that)

    However, Admiral Kendal Ozzel made his own assault plan, and exited hyperspace close to the star system planning for a saturated bombardment. This tactical blunder allowed the Rebel's early-warning sensors to detect the fleet. The theater shield protecting Echo Base was activated, which precluded any undesirable bombardment. An angry Darth Vader executed the Admiral for his incompetence and promoted Firmus Piett, then chief fleet captain of the Star Dreadnought Executor, to Admiral.

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Hoth

    'saturated bombardment'=dead Luke. Definite "you die now" move for Ozzel. :p

    While not a terrifically bad plan, it assumed a couple of variables that Ozzel had no way of factoring in or simply didn't bother to:

    1. That the Rebels might have a defense shield. Not an entirely illogical possibility; these are the same Rebels who took out the Death Star by exploiting a design flaw, and you think they're going to leave a major base utterly open to orbital bombardment? Yeah, maybe not. :p

    2. That Vader might have reasons for not orbitally bombarding the entire base into smoking crispy critters. This is Darth Vader; he's not squeamish about inflicting casualties. If he's being tactful, he's probably got a good reason to do so.

    I think basic Imperial arrogance doomed Ozzel; he didn't bother to think about the potential abilities of his opponents, or the predilictions of his boss.
     
  8. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 13, 2007
    "You have failed me for the last time, Admiral."

    It was made clear that this was not the first time Ozzel failed Vader. And it wasn't just that he made an honest mistake. He plainly disagreed with Vader's earlier assesment that the rebels were on Hoth, and he therefore thought they were wasting their time going to Hoth. Coming out of light-speed closer to the system would mean that less time would be wasted on this, Ozzel thought, so he directed the fleet to do that. But apparently doing that violated standard procedures when approaching an enemy base because it would alert the enemy, which it did... he just didn't expect anyone to actually be there because he thought Vader was wrong.

    So, it wasn't the first time; he questioned Vader's decision; he took matters into his own hands and followed the orders he was given but in a way that did not follow procedure; and the result of it all was that the attack stood less chance of success because the rebels were made aware of them through his actions (which required a more time-consuming AT-AT attack). As it turns out the rebels were preparing for them anyway, because they found the probe droid, but even if Vader knew that it probably would have been irrelevant in his eyes anyway because of the other factors involved.
     
  9. GrandAdmiral_Frank

    GrandAdmiral_Frank Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Aug 26, 2003

    I totally agree with that.
     
  10. _Sublime_Skywalker_

    _Sublime_Skywalker_ Jedi Master star 4

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    May 8, 2004
    Anakin was always called impatient as a Padawan, and it was emphasized as one of his biggest faults. Now he's Darth Vader and understands the long term effects of patience. Ozzel seemed too eager to crush the rebels, and Vader probably saw that as his own attempt for glory. If he had come out of lightspeed perhaps a little further away, or stretched it, the Rebels may not have been alerted.

    Anything that stands in the way of Vader getting Luke ASAP is considered useless. Ozzel's jump back to space alerted the Rebels, and Luke being one of the heroes now could be the first to jump transport, making the trip of Hoth a wild bantha chase.
     
  11. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 13, 2007
    Interesting, I have always seen this as Ozzel not even thinking the rebels were there and considering going to Hoth as a waste of time... not being too eager to crush them there. As I said, Ozzel plainly disagreed with Vader's earlier assesment that the rebels were on Hoth, and he therefore thought they were wasting their time going to Hoth. Coming out of light-speed closer to the system would mean that less time would be wasted on this, Ozzel thought, so he directed the fleet to do that. But apparently doing that violated standard procedures when approaching an enemy base because it would alert the enemy, which it did... he just didn't expect anyone to actually be there because he thought Vader was wrong.


    PIETT: I think we've got something, sir. The report is only a fragment
    from a probe droid in the Hoth system, but it's the best lead we've
    had.

    OZZEL: (irritated) We have thousands of probe droids searching the
    galaxy. I want proof, not leads!

    PIETT: The visuals indicate life readings.

    OZZEL: It could mean anything. If we followed every lead...

    PIETT: But, sir, the Hoth system is supposed to be devoid of human
    forms.

    VADER: You found something?

    PIETT: Yes, my lord.

    VADER: (studying the image on the console screen) That's it. The
    Rebels are there.

    OZZEL: My lord, there are so many uncharted settlements. It could be
    smugglers, it could be...

    VADER: That is the system. And I'm sure Skywalker is with them. Set
    your course for the Hoth system. General Veers, prepare your men.

     
  12. Stormie421

    Stormie421 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 2008
    Of course it wasn't. Vader's just mean.
     
  13. ThePriminister

    ThePriminister Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 27, 2005
    Vader was bored.


    Vader: You rented The Rock! I SAID get Die Hard 2! (Chokes officer)
     
  14. Darthbane2007

    Darthbane2007 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2007
    I think that Vader's plan was to jump out of hyperspace a considerable distance away from the planet. With the meteroites and whatnot making it difficult for the rebels to detect passing ships, The empire could have launched a couple of their own and made an orbitdal bombardment before the rebels had a chance to launch their shields and escape. Now Ozzel, being as clumsy as he is stupid, came out too close to the system, alerting the rebels and giving them time to activate their shield generator, preventing orbitdal bombardment.

    Of course, as he said, Ozzel may have failed Vader many times before, and this might have been just a reason to off Ozzel.
     
  15. Daft-Vader

    Daft-Vader Chosen One star 8

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    Aug 6, 2008
    That plan seems to be the one most likely to be implemented by Vader. However surely the Rebels would have had the shields up already, after discovering the Probe Droid? Not that it would have done any good to Ozzel [face_skull]

    Daft-Vader
     
  16. _Sublime_Skywalker_

    _Sublime_Skywalker_ Jedi Master star 4

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    May 8, 2004
    Yeah, but I think Ozzel also knows better then to disagree with Darth Vader. He's seen first hand Vader's "wizadry" and his powers, he should've known that when Vader saws "They are there. I am sure of it" that the Rebels are indeed there, and Vader is definetly sure of it. Even if in the end Ozzel did doubt Vader's brash decision on Hoth, he should've treated it as if they were ambushing a Rebel base. Perhaps he was crushed because of his lack of military formality. Even if it was just a bantha chase, or even just a training session, you always treat it like the real deal. Especially when your commanding officer is the Dark Lord of the Sith.
     
  17. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 13, 2007
    Definitely agree with that. ;)


     
  18. Glymphid_Warlord

    Glymphid_Warlord Jedi Knight star 2

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    Oct 10, 2008
    As do I.
     
  19. nancyallen

    nancyallen Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Nov 19, 2007
    Long story short Vader was right in saying Ozzel failed him for the last time. Just going by Allegiance he's shown as an incompetent baboon who allows the death of an ISB agent, a squad of Stormtroopers to defect, panic when an Imperial agent begins sniffing around and...I'll need to double check, might have even launched an attack on Mara Jade. At the end she basically sics Vader on him.
     
  20. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

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    Mar 3, 2003
    Yes, that's right about Mara Jade.
     
  21. nancyallen

    nancyallen Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Nov 19, 2007
    Cue the nice lady sending a Sith Lord after Ozzel.
     
  22. _Sublime_Skywalker_

    _Sublime_Skywalker_ Jedi Master star 4

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    May 8, 2004
    That's what pissed me off the most about Ozzel. I mean, if your in charge of a squad, some bad **** goes down and someone asks some questions, whats the better solution? Be honest, and help them track down the deserters, or better yet, attempt to asasinate a person higher in the command chain, so then someone else comes and asks more questions.
     
  23. Darthbane2007

    Darthbane2007 Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 31, 2007
    " He is as clumsy as he is stupid."

    Truer words have never been spoken.
     
  24. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Ozzel isn't completely to blame, though he did allow himself to be led by Drelfin.
     
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