Padme, A'Sharad Hett, et al - Accomplices to Mass Murder

is it just me, or is it disturbing that Padme and A'Sharad Hett are helping Anakin to cover for his crimes? even if Anakin were just an ordinary Joe, the fact that he massacred a village full of people might be something worth mentioning to the authorities, but he's the Chosen One, a being of immense potential power. the fact that he seems to have come unhinged is a pressing issue of galactic security.

think about it. if i confided in my girlfriend or my coworker that i had a bunch of bodies stashed in the crawlspace under my house, and they did nothing about it, wouldn't they bear some responsibility when i killed again? Anakin's clearly a mentally damaged individual with a lot more power than he can handle, but neither Padme nor A'Sharad have that excuse. could they have prevented the Jedi Purge and various other atrocities of Lord Vader?

between that and (Jedi Trial spoilers) Nejaa Halcyon covering for him with his secret marriage, there are fair number of people out there who could put the pieces together before it's too late, but they don't.

and, of course, according to the most recent Databank entry, Palpatine is more than happy to listen to the things Anakin is afraid to tell the other Jedi.

is the Vader situation Padme's fault for being an idiot? is it A'Sharad's fault for putting helping Anakin learn an important life lesson over the safety of the galaxy? is it the Jedi Order's fault for fostering a culture of secrecy and repression?

 

Or is it, perhaps, the Tusken Raiders' fault for continuing to live up to their galaxy-wide stereotype as savage, mindless, bloodthirsty animals who wholeheartedly deserve genocide?

 

In Sharad Hett's opinion it was a matter of Anakin being needed and his confidence that the younger Skywalker would come clean with his crimes. Personally, asking a Jedi to condemn a man for crimes in the past is culturally silly since their belief structure is about forgiveness and prevention.

None of them believed Anakin hadn't recanted.

While I think massacring a Tusken Village is equivalent to killing Native Americans as while some might have unpleasant practices, its clear their reputation is mostly propaganda and the result of Settler inroads into their territory...

Anakin should be found not guilty by reason of temporary insanity.

 

Anakin should be found not guilty by reason of temporary insanity.

If he was only temporarily insane, he would recognize his actions and own up to them. Instead he has kept them mostly hidden...

Padme is a fool for not only not telling anyone about this massacre, but deciding... hey, he just killed a whole village of people, i think i'll marry him.

 

"Or is it, perhaps, the Tusken Raiders' fault for continuing to live up to their galaxy-wide stereotype as savage, mindless, bloodthirsty animals who wholeheartedly deserve genocide?"

The kids & babies that Anakin killed deserved genocide?

 

Well I guarantee you those Tuskens also learned an important life lesson.

 

I don't know about A'Sharad, but from Padme's perspective, she may not even think Anakin's done anything wrong. The story as she's heard it, and all she's heard, is the following, whether accurate or not:

- The Tuskens are animals, not men. They're vicious, mindless monsters. (from Cliegg)
- They kidnapped Shmi, who died while in their posession.
- Anakin killed them all.

Now, we know they he attacked in anger and not in self-defense, but she doesn't have the advantage of our viewpoint. For all she knows, he might have had no choice but to kill them. And they're just vicious and mindless animals, so what's the big deal? If he killed a bunch of massiffs attacking him, it wouldn't be a problem. And there's the emotional connection brought on by sympathy - she's not going to jump to the worst possible conclusion first.

Of course, we know this isn't true, and that what he did was very wrong, but we're the audience. We get information the characters don't.

 

In Sharad Hett's opinion it was a matter of Anakin being needed and his confidence that the younger Skywalker would come clean with his crimes. Personally, asking a Jedi to condemn a man for crimes in the past is culturally silly since their belief structure is about forgiveness and prevention.

i'm not saying he should be condemned outright. i'm saying he should be brought before the Council. i'm saying there should be some sort of official intervention, for his sake and everyone else's.

While I think massacring a Tusken Village is equivalent to killing Native Americans as while some might have unpleasant practices, its clear their reputation is mostly propaganda and the result of Settler inroads into their territory...

agreed.

Anakin should be found not guilty by reason of temporary insanity.

i might be inclined to agree, ultimately, but i definitely think it's something that should be brought to the attention of the appropriate authorities.

I don't know about A'Sharad, but from Padme's perspective, she may not even think Anakin's done anything wrong. The story as she's heard it, and all she's heard, is the following, whether accurate or not:

- The Tuskens are animals, not men. They're vicious, mindless monsters. (from Cliegg)

i see that point, to some extent, but isn't she the one who made a point of opting to give a "lesser" species the benefit of the doubt in the past? didn't that work out well for her? i think that her first instinct in this situation would normally be to consider the perspective of the species in question, which is, essentially, on the receiving end of organized encroachment by violent, racist settlers.

 

No group/species deserves genocide.

 

Except mosquitos. I'm going with Padme not realizing the Tuskens were as intelligent as they really are. I imagine the time she spent at the Lars farm while Ani was away was filled with stories of their cruelty.

 

I agree with Lord_Hydronium: given what she?s heard on the matter, Padme may well think with good reason that Anakin was in the right. If he ended up having to kill all these animals while trying to save his mother, and he?s so broken up about what he did after, I don?t see anything too surprising with her taking his side.

Hett knows Tuskans pretty well. He?s probably not too surprised at their actions or Anakin?s. He?s not happy with what Anakin did, but I think that the Tuskan in him sympathizes and understands.

 

Probably some part racism against Sand People and some part "well, it was at war" (even though its not, I can see the whole "chaos of war" excuse going on) or "who couldn't sympathize with him?" thing since well, they did torture his mom and leave her to die slowly.

 

I agree with Lord_Hydronium: given what she?s heard on the matter, Padme may well think with good reason that Anakin was in the right. If he ended up having to kill all these animals while trying to save his mother, and he?s so broken up about what he did after, I don?t see anything too surprising with her taking his side.

The problem is that Anakin reveals to Padme that they aren't animals... because he killed all of them, even 'the women and the children' -- if you killed a pack of animals, would you bother to mention or notice that distinction, and comment on it... to say women instead of females is to say that he recognized them as female people and not female animals. a similar, albeit weaker argument, can be said about his mentioning of 'children' - generally when people refer to women and children in this type of battle-mentality, they give the impression that women and children are non-combatants, and may not be capable of defending themselves. by saying 'even the women and children' anakin is saying that he killed his attackers, and also the non-combatants (innocents). padme should have picked up on this...

sure, she might have been earlier led to believe that tuskens are a bunch of savages, barely above animals in instinct... but she has also traveled the galaxy qutie a bit, and i'm sure similar things were said about the gungans, and she might recognize people dehumanizing their enemies when she hears it.

there must be something wrong with padme that she chooses to love and commit herself to a homicidal maniac.

 

The Tuskens still raised their children to follow in their footsteps, hence that does'nt make them all totally innocent. This does not excuse Anakin from what he did, but we seem to forget that the Tuskens kidnapped and tortured Shmi, and she wasn't the only one. Two things as to why Padme married Anakin. First, she already loved him before he took out the Tuskens. Second, she's always trying to help people. Maybe she thought that she could help tame Anakin.

 

THe whole Anaki nslaughtering a village of Tuskens has been rendered non-canon anyhow, by Galactic Balltegrounds. If you make a scenario a stick Anakin in the midst of a Tusken village, the babies alone slaughter him.

 

yes, the tusken tribe did kidnap shmi and kill off members of the rescue party - however i doubt the children of the tribe actively participated in that action or the decision making behind those actions or had the experience to question their way of life. at any rate, i doubt most of the women and children actively sought to fight anakin after he started killing the armed men. most likely they were unarmed and not wanting to fight. perhaps 'innocent' isn't the best word to use to describe them, but certainly non-combatant fits. killing a group of non-combatants is immoral and most likely padme knows it.

 

This does not excuse Anakin from what he did, but we seem to forget that the Tuskens kidnapped and tortured Shmi, and she wasn't the only one.

yeah, well, no one forced the Lars family to encroach on Tusken territory. the Tuskens are the victims here, in the big picture.

 

Good topic!

Padme probably should have told someone what Anakin had done but since she "fell in love" with (read: was Force-influenced by) Anakin, she kept his secret out of loyalty.

Is it established anywhere, if Obi-Wan or Yoda ever sat down with Anakin and debriefed him about his "assignment" to protect Padme? I mean, for crying out loud, Yoda had a vision of Anakin in "terrible pain" and Obi-Wan knew that he and Padme were on Tatooine. Give me a break. They could have (should have) figured out that something crazy went down on Anakin's trip to Tatooine.

A'Sharad Hett should have realized that what Anakin did went beyond just a transgression of judgement into a dangerous and despicable act of inflicting indiscriminate pain and death. It was a weak point for either Ostrander or Blackman (I forget who actually wrote that issue of Republic) to have Hett be so causual about the murder of an entire tribe of Tusken Raiders.

 

One thing to realize is that Howlrunner Hett was frankly familiar with the concept of the "ban" (to use a Jewish word for it) and knows Tuskens commit acts like this. That Anakin would retalliate in a blood crime is likely something that the Jedi would never realize wouldn't strike Hett as unnatural or repulsive as it would us.

I do find attempts to portray the Tusken children and women as orcs despicable though.

Padme I think is in HEAVY denial and I find the fact that few people think of this to be a tad amusing. Basically, she is focusing on Anakin as a victim since she can't process the idea of Anakin-as-my-love/Good person with 'Anakin as mass murderer'. Sideous was right...she has a flawed black and white worldview as dim as the rest.

 

What about Yoda? Yoda had to have known something of Anakin's actions. He even sensed it in Episode II. SHould he come before the Coun -- the rest of the Council?

 

I believe that Padme was very naive. A. I believe she thought she could heal him, B. I'm not sure she allowed herself the chance to really accept that he did more than make a mistake. However, she might have had half a chance if they had been allowed to live openly as man and wife. Having his children might have helped him as well. Which takes me to my main point:

I think the biggest group of people that are culpable in Anakin's problems are the Jedi Order itself. By the time Anakin came into the system, they had created a rigid order that allowed and tolerated almost nothing. They created an atmosphere where Anakin could never have gone to any one of them and admitted what he had done or sought any type of true guidance. They were a group of individuals bound by their rules, not by any true compassion. Obi-Wan bears some blame simply because he kept himself removed enough from Anakin to not be able to sense the deeper issues boiling under the surface. If he did sense them, he completely ignored them or was unable to find a way to reach out to him. While that lack of true connection could also be blamed on Anakin, I think that Obi-Wan had never completely trusted Anakin one hundred percent. I think Yoda's---" He is too old" spiel sat with him and perhaps his doubts and uncertainty led him to hold something back from Anakin. I just get this sense that had Qui-Gon trained him, perhaps he would have had a deeper connection with him and maybe been able to be the true mentor that Anakin was searching for and apparently found in Palpatine.

 

oh, i will agree that the jedi council screwed up in the training of anakin... they certainly had the ability to get his mother's freedom, just to put young ani's mind at ease (he may not be able to see her, but at least he knows that she's no longer a slave) and since he is so powerful in the force and has a lot of stuff to unlearn (being so old when he started), they should have left his training to a master who had trained other 'hard cases' rather than someone who just made knight and had never trained anyone before. they could have left obi-wan 'master' in name, to meet qui-gon's wishes, but left the pairing up for some time... when anakin was more trained by the more experienced jedi..

but could their negligence be responsible for his actions on tatooine?

 

but could their negligence be responsible for his actions on tatooine?

i think so, yes, at least in part. they could have and should have gone and bought Shmi's freedom and set her up with a nice retirement cottage on a lake in Naboo or something, just to set his mind at ease. and, yes, they clearly should have given him to a much more experienced master - probably Yoda himself.

everyone seems to have a hand in the making of Vader, most of them through negligence.

 

Rubbish. Other jedi have had hard lives, and they haven't turned into mass-murdering Sith Lords.

A'Sharad's father saw his whole planet destroyed, and lost his entire family.

That's worse than what happened to Anakin.

Anakin was never cut out to be a Jedi. He should have stayed on Tatooine and managed a moisture farm with his half brother.

 

nah.. anakin wouldn't be content in a farmer's life.. he'd want to start a farming collective or something and try to enforce his good intentions on everyone, and end up fighting for control of tatooine with jabba the hutt... besides i don't think anakin and owen would have much in common except their stubborness.