Padme's weakness, or my reflections on Padme's character in Episode III, 2 and 1.

I believe this is most definatley worthy of discussion, someone at another board posted this and got some awsome replies...... So I thought it would be cool to post this here where we could discuss it.


I have noticed that many people say Padme's character is "ruined" in Ep.III - before she has been a strong woman and a courageous leader, here she is reduced to a "desperate housewife" (as somebody put it [[wink]] ). Here are my thoughts on this matter.

To me, Padme's story is essentially that of a strong woman who nevertheless is destroyed by love. Perhaps this sounds a bit melodramatic, but still I think she could have been a tragic heroine in her own right, if the story was more focused on her.

The love and passion between Anakin and Padme generally seems to be of destructive kind. In Anakin's case it turns to obsession and becomes his motivation for turning to the Dark Side (I know it's a bit more complicated, but I don't want to elaborate on it now). I get the impression that in Padme's case it is gradually draining her strength, until she ultimately loses the very will to live. That's why I think Padme's character appears weaker in Ep.III than she was in Ep. I and II.

This situation also reminds me of various myths. Anakin is not only exceptionally strong in the Force, but also - as I believe, at least - has been created by the Force itself and thus is essentially "half-divine". Padme on the other hand is a "mere mortal". Maybe that's why she not able to hold her own against Anakin, metaphorically speaking?

I'd also like to repeat my comment I made a few days ago, regarding this much criticized line uttered by Padme:
"Hold me... like you did by the lake on Naboo, so long ago... when there was nothing but our love. No politics, no plotting, no war"

The "no politics, no plotting, no war" part is obviously untrue, but I think it's intentional. This line is meant to show us that Padme at this point is in denial. IMHO she might have sensed something wrong is happening with Anakin, but she has also become dependant on him and is not willing to risk losing him by bringing this issue up. (Of course she eventually realizes what has happened and stands up to Anakin on Mustafar, but by then, it's already too late... [[sad]] ).

A good ilustration of this is also the following picture:
http://aptirrelevance.com/sw-archive/imgview.php?id=01223

Padme is quite literally closing her eyes here, pressing her head against Anakin's chest (note to self: nobody cares that you'd like to be in her position... [[wink]] ). Anakin on the other hand is holding Padme in an embrace, but the faraway look on his face indicates that he's not really focusing on Padme at this moment. More likely he's thinking about the plans he has for her (namely, saving her from - as he perceives it - imminent death).

Side note: Aren't we all guilty of this to some extent, that we really think more about ourselves than the ones we say we love?

 

My Reply to this Question was...

Well, Episode three, was more like "Look what I've been reduced too."
She was a Queen and a stroang Leader in the first film, a Senator in the second film, and in this movie she was struggling to hang on to the senate. I Liked however how Love was her one weakness. You know If everyone here has seen that film Elizabeth starring Cate Blanchett, then you would understand how she came to fall in love with Anakin. there 's a line in the film that she says "Am I to be made of Stone too?" Padme obviously did not want to turn out that way.
She wanted to fall in love and be a woman, not to go untouched by anything.
Padme's only crime was falling in love. I don't think that she would have regretted anything she did though. She Loved Anakin with all her heart.

What bothers me is that she was so naieve about the Senate, I mean She had no idea that what everyone wanted was War except those few that were good. SHe tried to talk some sense in to the senators in Episode 2 but to no avail. "If you show the sepratists violence they can only show violence in return, does anyone here wan't that? I can not believe that they do."
When Anakin turned to the Dark side, and Obi-wan told Padme about it, "The Chancellor is behind everything even the war."

I can not believe that she had thought that keeping the Senate alive would have accomplished anything. She was so Naieve, it was full of corruption it had to die!
So Luke could come in later and fix it all. I hated how she blamed Ankin for that.
Anyways, Padme is still my favorite character and I hope that there might be some mention of her in the OT if Lucas revises them.


Hey, I've seen Elizabeth! And I think I know what you mean. Padme didn't want to become the "Virgin Queen" (meant more figuratively than literally [[wink]] ).

"Look what I've been reduced to."

I think that's also a good interpretation of her situation. I guess Padme (and a handful of other non-corrupt senators) felt that she didn't really fit in with the rest of the Senate anymore... She had always been so noble, that it was probably hard for her to understand the true extent of the corruption. I think she finally realized it during the "birth of the Empire" scene, when she said: "So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause..."

I guess you're right that the Republic had to fall, but I also understand that Padme loved the Republic so much that she couldn't bear to see it destroyed... And I suppose Anakin still had to be held responsible for his actions, even if they ultimately resulted in something good in the grand scheme of things (which I guess is a whole another discussion). So, as I said above, I think Padme was right to stand up against Anakin, even if it was a heartbreaking choice...

I'd also love to see Padme mentioned in the OT. That would be an update I'd really appreciate, although I know some people wouldn't like it.



"As you said, the fact that Padme is the "catalyst" of Anakin's turn is ironic, and tragic at the same time... tragic irony, if you will. I think another aspect of it is the fact that Anakin ends up causing Padme's death because of the very actions he takes with the intention of saving her life..."


I find it ironic also Grey Elf.



The Real Question is..... If He and Padme had gotten married after the war,
(which I believe would have solved the problem)
or if Padme had completley turned down Anakin.....

Would he still have turned to the dark side?


Would The Emperor have found a new apprentice and not bothered with Anakin?

Would Anakin have been harder or easier to manipulate?




Padme's strength's in Episode 1 were more than srtictly pollitical.
She had qualities that a good man would look fore in a woman.
She knew how to handle herself in almost every situation.
I must agree that her only crime as falling in love.

The Line "Hold me... like you did by the lake on Naboo, so long ago... when there was nothing but our love. No politics, no plotting, no war"

Is there to demonstrate that e

 

Bottom line for me:

If she didn't have any kids at the time, and everything transpired as her husband choked her, and she quit and lost the will to live, I could understand that, and would have no problem with it, Anakin was the only person she loved.

But once you put kids in the equation, everything changes, they are the #1 thing to protect even over Anakin. Whatever he did to her, even trying to choke her to death, once those babies are born, as a mother, her duty is numero uno on those twins, and do everything she can to give them a better life.

And if anyone responds that she died for them, and they were better off that way, so Anakin doesn't find them.

I say, how come she doesn't say one frickin word to ObiWan about taking my children to a family that cares and will love them and bring them up to be responsible adults. She says nothing about her kids not one word, she just names them and dies? All she says is, "There is still good in him." That fact that she does not mention her kids once and wishing them a future better than her fate, makes the scene SO unbelievable.

 

I still refuse to believe she died only because Anakin turned into a bad guy. She lost the will to live because everything in the galaxy that she represented and helped build/nature SHE had a hand in destroying. That's ALOT to live with.

Carnage

 

After reading the prequel books twice over, i completely agree with you Mystic_Warrior_Queen.

 

CJedi72 you and I have the same outlook on it all. If she had no kids, tragic it would certainly have been. Her having kids and then "losing the will to live" makes it sound like she's abandoning them. If George was going to the whole "having her killed right after she gives birth" idea, it probably would have been a better idea to have her killed by Anakin's choke. On my part, it is much more tragic. And it doesn't hurt Padme's character.

 

Queen/Padme Amidala by far is one of the most fascinating characters in the whole PT for me. The way I see her character by episode is as following:

TPM: The way she is portrayed in the first episode is as a head strong leader who is very compassionate, and yet also feels she has much too prove. Being the youngest Queen ever elected makes her more eager to prove that she is a powerful and wise queen even at the age of 14. Her flaw is that she does not seem to see the bigger picture and seems to be naive and went for the quick fix solution. Her short sightedness was exposed when she asked the senate for a vote of no confidence on Supreme Chancellor Valorum leadership. I did admire her very much in battle, I love the way she fought, it was extremely feisty, yet calculated. People call her character wooden; I call it very calculated and thoughtful. I think Padme is a very gentle person, the only one who actually seemed to truly care for Anakin's situation. Qui-Gon seemed to only care for Anakin because he believed he was the chosen one. She seemed to be the only one who was looking out for him when they arrived to coruscant. Amidala is an extremely complex character in TPM.

AOTC: She seems to be relieved that she is no longer Queen, though she seems glad that she is able to serve in some capacity as a Senator. I believe she came across a little childish when she was forced to go into hiding for her protection. She has to realize that the Jedi were doing all they can to protect her. She seems to be torn in the way she views Anakin, in one way she see's him as the sweet innocent boy she first met in Tatooine, and she also see's him as a much more mature grown man. She can't deny her physical attraction to him. The fireplace scene and the lakeside scene shows a woman confused at whether she should pursue her dreams and have a meaningful relationship with Anakin or fulfill her duty. Those 2 scenes she seems the most conflicted. Every time she stares at Anakin she is trying to suppress her love and attraction she has to him. I believe the reason the loves comes across so awkwardly is because you got too completely confused and naive individuals, one who wants do have everything his way, and Padme who wants to do what is right. Towards the end of the movie you see Padme realizing that she can't deny her love for Anakin and it is inevitable even though something tells her that it will result in disaster she still goes ahead and get's married. Lastly she see's the corruption in the senate going on and is trying to be a voice of reason, but she feels that no one is listening and that the senate is in danger of no longer functioning properly.

ROTS: At this point she seems more concerned with her marriage than her role as senator. She cares more about her babies than about her duty. She also is in denial of what kind of person Chancellor Palpatine is. She doesn't want to believe that she was supported as Queen by such an evil man. She seems very despondent, and she seems to have given up on diplomacy and liberty. This is all is crushing to her, all she has worked for as Queen & Senator means absolutely nothing in the end. All the ideals she has fought for was for nothing. She was deceived by one who she thought was a friend earlier. She seems to feel responsible in some way. She see's Anakin becoming way too close to the chancellor, and she see's the young innocent boy she met long ago become an evil man. She loves Anakin blindly regardless of what foolish act he may commit. I believe had Anakin not choked Padme she still would have been at his side loving him. She believes in Anakin more than anyone, even when it seems darkest, she was the only one who gave him comfort when his mother died. She loves him truly & she believes he is a man gone wrong. I also do buy the theory she lost the will to live because if you see one you love become a horrible human being and see everything you worked for go down the toilet it could easily devastate someone.

Amidala is a GREAT and complex character and I greatly enjoyed watching h

 

But after Obi-wan told Padme about Palpatine being the Sith Lord responsible for the prequal trilogy events, she felt that noone will be able to protect her kids against 2 Sith Lords (1 of them being her husband Anakin) since they can search all over the galaxy and instantly kill whomever is raising Luke and Leia so she figures, "What's the point?"

Anakin_luver-

Having Padme die by Anakin's choke would've also killed Luke and Leia but George can't allow that to happen for it will destroy the entire OT continuity.

 

I find it interesting that people complain about Padme's role being "decreased" in ROTS when the exact same thing happens to Leia in ROTJ.

And here's the thing: Padme is pregnant and in the middle of an illicit relationship. Leia is off from having her boyfriend carbon frozen and her brother get his rear kicked.

Who should be the one fired up?

 

But after Obi-wan told Padme about Palpatine being the Sith Lord responsible for the prequal trilogy events, she felt that noone will be able to protect her kids against 2 Sith Lords (1 of them being her husband Anakin) since they can search all over the galaxy and instantly kill whomever is raising Luke and Leia so she figures, "What's the point?"

Who knew it was twins? The last time I checked Vader didn't know til ROTJ. You know she could have faker her death? Remember when they fake that she is still pregnant at the funeral? Did anyone think maybe the kids were born after she died, no they assumed since she was still pregnant the kids died with her.

 

I've given my opinions on this on other topics, but I don't think that the whole "lost the will to live" thing is totally true. I mean, it was a droid that delivered that line, and droids have been fooled before.

 

You misunderstood. I thought it would have been better for Padme to suffer birth defects because of the choke...and later die.

 

But when PalpSidious found out that the Death Star was destroyed, he automatically knew that the Rebel pilot responsible is Anakin's son. Now, how could he possibly know that Anakin has any offspring? Perhaps, he knew all along that Padme gave birth to Luke before she died and kept his mouth shut so that 1) he could replace Vader with Luke and 2) he doesn't want any shred of goodness within Vader to return for it will cause Vader to destroy Palps thus fulfilling the prophecy.

I'll admit that it was a suprise for both Sith Lords to learn that Luke wasn't the only child created by Anakin and Padme.

 

That's exactly what I'm saying...If Padme had said "what's the point" to every little obstacle that came her way, she would not be in the position she was. She is not one to stand aside and let everything fall apart. Having suffered a Force choke is just like suffering one of the attacks that were being made on her in AOTc...the only difference is that it is her husband...

She refused to hide when those attacks were being made, why in the world did she run away from her problems now? When she had so much on the line.

 

Padme never counted on the next attacker to be her own husband.

When it happened, she felt the same way as Yoda did when he sensed all of his Jedi Knights being annihilated...heartbroken and devestated so like him, Padme went into exile except that death was her exile.

 

Again, I will keep saying, Yoda didn't have any kids, Padme did. If Padme was not pregnant and lost the will to live, I would find that totally believable, but the fact that she has kids changes the whole thing around. And before she dies, she names the kids, but doesn't ask Kenobi to take them to parents who will give them a normal life? But she will say the person that made her lose the will to live that there is still good in him? That doesn't make sense.

 

in TPM, right before she leaves for Naboo from Coruscant, she tells palpatine that "i fear the republic is truly dead" or something like that. isnt ironic that she becomes a senator and does a 180? i also have to agree with the kids comment. a mother would fight. but then i look at her and she was so adept in one area of her life that the personal life got shortchanged. i dont think she really had any relationships to go on. some kid in the youth program when she was what 12? look around you. how many women do you know that are successfully to the extent of padme in her professional life and personal life? we all walk a middle road. her road was one sided. she had no experience at relationships. right out of the box she falls for the most powerful being in the universe. crap, my first boyfriend just did drugs and played in a band. i cant imagine what it would have been like if it had been an anakin type.

 

Padme's character really disappointed me in ROTS, but I don't necessarily see this as a weakness in the film. Sometimes people lose themselves when they're in love. They give up or lose admirable character traits through so single-mindedly devoting themselves to someone. It happens and it happened to Padme.

I'd have to say though, that I didn't like her losing the will to live when she was about to give birth. Having her die as a result of Anakin's force choke would've been more appropriate.

 

The thing that got me upset was that she died because she didn't have the will to live, hello, you have two babies to care for and not to mention a growing rebellion. If she had died because of some problem she had giving birth, then okay. She is small person, not to mention she had twins and they were fairly large.

 

Padme is a true tragic character. A strong leader reduced to a worried wife. It's very natural her worry and torment because of a love she is losing. I wish her death scene was a little more impactful and not as drawn out to send home the point that it was really HIS fault she died.

 

But after Obi-wan told Padme about Palpatine being the Sith Lord responsible for the prequal trilogy events, she felt that noone will be able to protect her kids against 2 Sith Lords

The Padme of TPM would have not be daunted by that.

And if Padme had given up the will to live, what sense did it make for her to still have faith in Anakin?

 

PMT99, I don't know what thread we debated this about but I remember you saying something like "Padme thought Anakin was dead."

Obi-Wan *never* says anything to Padme about Anakin being dead...so when I made a statement about "her living to see the day Anakin comes back to the Light Side" it was completely true.

 

First off, the Jedi ARE Yoda's kids and when he lost them to PalpSidious, he spent the rest of his life on a swamp planet until he died in his bed. Second, there is no point for Padme to tell Obi-wan to take her kids to be raised by a loving family when she knows that the Sith will find them wherever they are hiding, kill the people that are raising them, and either kill the babies or make them into Sith Lords themselves. Lastly, she only says there's still good in Anakin for the same reason why Obi-wan lied to Luke, to accept the fact that the "Anakin" she knew is gone and will never come back.

Anakin_luver=

Just because Obi-wan didn't say anything to Padme doesn't mean that she knows that Anakin is not dead because the fact that he didn't come back with Obi-wan after their fight was over is enough to tell Padme that Anakin is dead.

Darth-Stryphe=

The Padme of TPM was only 14 years old and too young to have kids.

 

I agree with you on the Yoda part. But if a mother is dying right after giving birth, the only thing on her mind would be the kids...am I wrong? Of course she is thinking about Anakin as well. But for you to say that she didn't bother telling Obi-Wan to take the kdis to a lovng family, is just wrong. She would want to make sure they are okay. And she didn't.

If she thought Anakin was dead, why in the world would she have told Obi-Wan that there was still good in a dead person?

 

Lastly, she only says there's still good in Anakin for the same reason why Obi-wan lied to Luke, to accept the fact that the "Anakin" she knew is gone and will never come back.

If she's going to die, what does she care if Obi-wan has any hope?


Darth-Stryphe

The Padme of TPM was only 14 years old and too young to have kids.

The Padme of TPM went to fight for her homeworld without an army or certainity she could raise one, and full knowledge if she failed her fate and that of her world would be in the TF's hands. This isn't the spirit of someone who quits easily, even when quiting (or being cautious) makes perfect sense.