Palpatine knows the unnatural powers?

PALPATINE: I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life ... He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying.

ANAKIN: He could actually save people from death?

PALPATINE: The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.



3 things:

Palpatine knows to create life and to keep people from dying. At least according to http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/palpatine/index.html having learned it from Darth Plagueis the Wise before killing him.



So first thing:

PALPATINE: To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I know we can discover the secret.

Is Palpatine lying to Anakin on this issue because he knows that, as he himself did, Anakin will eventually turn on him?

Second thing:

Did Palpatine create Grievous? It seems as it is the only logical conclusion.

Third thing:

Was Palpatine the reason why Anakin survived?

 

I think Palpatine was lying to Anakin to win him over from the Jedi and to keep him from turning against Palpatine, because I'm pretty sure that he already knew how to create life and stuff like that. Count Dooku and San Hill were responsible for creating Grievous into the cyborg he is.

What do you mean by "Was Palpatine the reason why Anakin survived?"? Are you talking about early on in Anakin's life, or later?

 

Talking when Anakin was lying on mustafar, did Palpatine help Anakin survive the ordeal?

My guess is that he did.

 

Yeah, I'm guessing that Palpatine did some force technique to help take away some of the pain or heal some of Anakin's burns (Remember when Palpatine put his hand on Anakin's head), which is probably the only reason why Anakin survived.

 

Don't believe everything you read in the databank.

The evil energies twisted Palpatine's face as they flowed through him, scarring and disfiguring his once handsome features.



On the other hand:

The databank entry does not actually state this!

 

1. Palpatine lied to Anakin and didn't possess the power in the Prequel Trilogy.

2. Palpatine's manipulations eventually lead to the creation of Grievous though he didn't do it directly.

3. Arguable. It was either Palpatine, Vader's dark will, or the prophecy needing to be complete.

 

Dark Lord confirmed Sidious didn't know.
The secret had been lost, or misplaced rather.

 

Ah yes, a secret lost after a Sith apprentice kills his sleeping Sith master, who (by the way) hasn't told his apprentice precisely how to do this nifty little trick. Death has a way of precipitating and perpetuating secrets!!!

RE: "unnatural:" (courtesy of Dictionary.com)

n·nat·u·ral [uhn-nach-er-uhl, -nach-ruhl]
?adjective
1. contrary to the laws or course of nature.
2. at variance with the character or nature of a person, animal, or plant.
3. at variance with what is normal or to be expected: the unnatural atmosphere of the place.
4. lacking human qualities or sympathies; monstrous; inhuman: an obsessive and unnatural hatred.
5. not genuine or spontaneous; artificial or contrived: a stiff, unnatural manner.
6. Obsolete. lacking a valid or natural claim; illegitimate.

. . . and from American Heritage dictionary:


1. In violation of a natural law.
2. Inconsistent with an individual pattern or custom.
3. Deviating from a behavioral or social norm: an unnatural attachment.
4. Contrived or constrained; artificial: smiled in an unnatural manner.
5. In violation of natural feelings; inhuman.

Quirky word with some interesting possible interpretations in context with Palpatine's pep talk in the Opera.

 

That gives me the image of Palpatine losing the secret to stop death because of a bureaucratic nightmare.

 

LOL...
Thats what happens when an author uses Palpatine to tell a portion of the story.
And, Chron... Palpatine's acting job is definitely teh result of Sith training. Bane incorporated "playing a fool" as a part of his gameplan because he understood brute force could only get you soo far...

 

In the EU Count Dooku acting on orders from Darth Sidious/Palpatine causes the Kaheele General Grievious's shuttle to crash and he barely survives it and has to be put into a life support suit in order to survive, when Grievious nearly goes into cardiac arrest Dooku uses a sustained bolt of Sith Lightning in order to stabilize his heartrate and keep him alive, afterwards he is approached by Dooku to lead the Separitist armies and says yes,

 

In my opinion, Palpatine did not know how to save people from dying. He was lying. Remember when he tells Anakin before he turned "I have the power to save the one you love." Then after Anakin turned he said "If we work together, I know we can discover the secret." This is proof he did not know.

 

Totally agree. If he knew, he wouldn't have needed to change his story.

 

Palpatine may have known, or he may have not. It is only important to Anakin -- Jedi Anakin, that is.

At the Opera Palpatine throws the baited hook by stating " . . . he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep." So the idea is set firmly in Anakin's mind that the surviving apprentice of Plagueis knew how to "keep the ones he cared about from dying." Of course, this is inherently untrue at the most basic level, as a Sith cares for no one except themself (we find this out later on Mustafar).

The evolution of temptation used later by an officially 'out of the closet' Sidious is: "I am your pathway to power," reinforcing what Anakin already believes -- that Anakin cannot become powerful enough alone to save Padme. Shmi already proved that in his mind. Then later, after Anakin commits to the dark side, he is told "if we work together, I know we can discover the secret." This psychologically brings Anakin in as a partner in the quest for "unnatural powers." Palpatine alone will not save Padme. Anakin is part of the solution. 'His' power is needed too. He needs to become more powerful, and Sidious is the "pathway." Nifty slight of hand by the master Sith.

So it eventually becomes all about the power for Anakin on Mustafar when Anakin tells Padme: " I have brought peace to the Republic. I am more powerful than the Chancellor. I can overthrow him, and together you and I can rule the galaxy." Anakin, now fully Vader, has a case of the 'power flu.' The "ones he cared about" are secondary to himself and his need for more power, as Palpatine knew would happen once Anakin embraced the dark side. It is the way of the Sith.

 

Yep. If he ever learned it(which only the EU has evidence of), it was after he already had Vader as his apprentice.

 

PALPATINE: I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life ... He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying.

ANAKIN: He could actually save people from death?

PALPATINE: The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.


Anakin asks a simple yes or no question above, and Palps gives him a broad generalized statement about the Dark Side. Well duh, a lot of what the Sith (and the Jedi for that matter) do is unnatural.

 

Basically, it boils down to a simple principle...

Don't be surprised when you find out the devil lied to you. He is the devil.

 

CALVIN: Do you believe in the devil? You know, a supreme evil being dedicated to the temptation, corruption, and destruction of man?

HOBBES: I'm not sure that man needs the help

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"And it only slowly dawned on me that if Vader was really the worst creature, the most evil, the darkest, the blackest villain in movie history, I was worse than him - and I'm still slightly coming to terms with that, actually. So I think my relationship with Satan is closer than I ever imagined it to be."
~Ian McDiarmid, IGN Interview, October 12 2005

 

I find your logic indecipherable. If he was lying in the first place, he could just as easily have been lying when he said "I know we can discover the secret". How can you assert that Palpatine's words are lies in the one case but use them as proof in the other?

 

why would he first say "I have the power to save the one you love, you must choose!" then say "If we work together I know we can discover the secret"?
At first he sayes he has the power to save Padme then he says one has to learn the power and he says if he and Anakin work together they will discover this ability. Tell me, why would he say this if he does know the power?
It seems that he told Anakin he already has this power to so he turn him to the dark side but then right after Anakin turns he says that they have to work together to learn this power.

Palpatine just keeps lying and lying to people so he can get his way, Obi-wan says that Anakin and everyone else was deceived by a lie.

 

I think you might be misinterpreting him. I don't see that Icestar claims that Palpatine was telling the truth in the second statement, merely that because Palaptine felt he had to change his story, that the first statement, that he definitely did have the power, was in fact a lie. Telling Anakin that if they worked together to discover the secret doesn't necessarily have to be true in order for it to potentially negate the first statement, that he does know the power. I believe what Icestar is suggesting, is that because Palpatine changes his story a little, going from "Yes, I know how to save people" to "No, I don't know, but, I am sure we can figure it out", that we can state that he doesn't know how to save people. However, look at the second statement closely. Palpatine doesn't actually claim anything...Its obvious that he is implying he doesn't actually know, but the "I know we can discover the secret" could be interpreted as either a bald faced lie, OR possibly simple optimism. But, either way, it invalidates his previous comment. The second comment, regardless of whether it was actually true or not, clearly contradicts his first statement. We know for a fact, based on that information alone, that one of the two statements is false. They cannot both be the truth. However, it does not rule out the possibility that both are false. Considering Palpatine never actually demonstrates this ability (Without the assistance of EU Cloning machines, of course) its far more likely that his first statement, that he does know how to stop people from dying, was in fact, false. The first statement is the hook to draw Anakin over to the Dark Side. Telling him that he can save Padme is a strong, compelling reason. By changing his story, he weakens his hold on Anakin. If Palpatine doesn't actually know, but thinks that him and Anakin can discover it, Anakin might consider that he could discover it on his own, without Palpatine. Hedging like he did, Palpatine weakened his hold over Anakin. Why change his story at all? Because if Anakin thinks he knows how to save people from dying, Palpatine would be expected to demonstrate that power to Anakin before he was satisfied. If Palpatine doesn't actually know how to do it, he has to change his story a little, so that Anakin doesn't force him to prove something he can't actually prove. Palpatine either kept his original story, and get proven to be a total fraud on the saving people from death issue, or he changes his story a little, maintain the illusion that its possible to save people, without actually having to prove it. He started out with an outrageous statement, then backed off a little...by backing off a little, he makes his second statement seem more reasonable. People have been using the same technique for years.

Now, if you count clones as saving you from death, then Palpatine could actually be telling the truth...from a certain point of view. However, then that leaves open the question, why didn't Vader demand Palpatine make a clone of Padme, as soon as he found out she was dead? Even if you couldn't clone her from dead tissue, as a Senator, I am sure Padme had top notch health care. That means that throughout her pregnancy, she probably went to the gynocologist, where they no doubt drew blood samples, etc to run tests on. Its entirely conceivable that there were living samples of Padme's DNA to bring to Kamino, or other cloning facility. Instead, Anakin, being t

 

Palpatine wasn't lying when he was trying to convert Anakin. He told him that Darth Plagueis knew and that he taught his Apprentice. He never claimed to have been that person. He tells Anakin that he knows everything about the dark side and when he makes his pitch to him, he talks about learning all aspects of the Force. He mentions the power to cheat death as an end result of having learned the dark side. If he learns the dark side, then he will become strong enough to save her.

 

but that is contradictory in and of itself. If the power to cheat death is an end result of learning the Dark Side, and Palpatine claims to know everything about the Dark Side, is it not inherent than he would then also know the power to cheat death? Its one of those logic questions on IQ tests:

A. The power to cheat death is of the Dark Side.
B. Palpatine knows everything about the Dark Side.
C. Therefore, Palpatine must know how to cheat death.

Is the above logically true, or false?

If Palpatine knows all there is to know about the Dark Side, as he claims, he MUST know how to cheat death, otherwise there are things about the Dark Side he doesn't know, which invalidates previous statements he made. Either way, Palpatine was lying. We don't even know if Plagueis had the knowledge, or if the entire tale is a complete fabrication on Palpatine's part. Anakin wouldn't have known anything about Sith lore to be able to correct him on any of it, so anything he tells Anakin would be impossible for Anakin to disprove.

Lets face it..Palpatine spun a tale, knowing he couldn't be proven wrong, specifically designed to draw Anakin in. Don't surprised when you find out the devil lied to you. He is the devil.

 

The real problem, as I see it, is this. Let's proceed with the assumption that Darth Sidious was Darth Plagueis's apprentice. Therefore Darth Sidious murdered Darth Plagueis in his sleep. Surely Sidious would not have done this until he was absolutely certain that he had learned everything he possibly could from Plagueis, as any additional knowledge Plagueis had would have been lost forever? With this in mind, these seem to be the only possibilities:

1) Sidious did learn this knowledge from Plagueis.
2) Sidious asked Plagueis to teach him this knowledge, who refused (and refused to ever teach him this.)
3) Sidious did not discover that Plagueis had this knowledge until after he had killed him.
4) Sidious believed that Plagueis would teach him this knowledge one day, but some other factor led him to kill him anyway.

4) is, I think, the most interesting one. At first sight, it might seem unlikely because we know that Sidious is a very patient man and would have been willing to wait until he had this knowledge before killing Plagueis and becoming the Sith Master. However, consider this possibility: suppose that Plagueis was not content to know just how to prevent others from dying. Suppose that he also wanted to discover how to make himself immortal. It's seems entirely reasonable that Plagueis, as a Sith, would have this as his ultimate goal. If he succeeded here, then this would clearly be devastating for Sidious. So even if Sidious had not yet discovered the ability to make others immortal, he would still have to accelerate his plans and kill Plagueis before it was too late. And then, perhaps, Sidious thought he knew enough already to rediscover Plagueis knowledge on his own, or perhaps with his own apprentice, and then proceed to the ultimate goal of keeping oneself alive forever.

DL

 

There is a fifth possibility. Darth Plagueis never had the power to begin with, and Palpatine fabricated the power because it would be highly effective in manipulating Anakin.