Palpatine lied to Anakin's face

Palpatine said to Anakin: "I have the power to save the one you love". Surely I thought that Palpatine would teach Anakin the technique, but as soon as Anakin turned, Palps said, "To cheat death is a power only one achieved, but together, I know we can discover the secret".
And Anakin said nothing. I would have been like: You don't know? WHAT??? and killed him right there. But Anakin doesnt do anything. What gives?

 

Saving someone is different from cheating death, apparently. Stick Padmé in the Vader suit.

 

Yes, he lied but Anakin was so desperate to save Padme (and he knew that Palpatine was his only hope to do so) that he moved forward under Palpatine's direction as a Sith.

 

Yeah, Anakin didn't care. He was compelled with saving Padme. And he might have been confident that he and Palpatine could indeed "discover the secret."

 

And Anakin said nothing. I would have been like: You don't know? WHAT??? and killed him right there. But Anakin doesnt do anything. What gives?

Because Anakin, unlike Luke, knew the next line out of Palpatines mouth would have been "So what I have told you was true... from a certain point of view." Standard Jedi and Sith jargon taught to all Jedi and Sith before the dark times, before the Empire.

 

Well said, I have to agree D_J_K.

 

I don't know if Anakin was lied to. Palpatine said "I have the power to save the one you love". He doesn't say he exactly that he has Plagueis's secret. He says power. Refering to he has enough dark side power to learn Plagueis's secret. Palpatine was intenionally vague on that so Anakin couldn't call him out on that later. Of course I'm sure Anakin took it a reference to already having Plagueis's secret. As to why Anakin didn't flip on Palpatine when he talks about learning the secret together, two things. One, Mace Windu just got blasted out the window and he helped kill him. Second, Palpatine was the only person to offer the option to save Padme. Everyone else was telling him to let her go.

 

"I have the power to save the one you love."

"To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I'm sure we can discover the secret."

I do believe he lied outright. Originally Palpatine tells Anakin that Plagueis had the power to save the ones he cared about from dying. Palpatine then tells Anakin that he (Palpatine) has the power to save Padme; "I have the power to save the one you love." Then after being saved by Anakin, Sidious tells Anakin that he doesn't know to save Padme but by working together will they be able to save her. Sidious then sends Anakin off on solo missions, first to the Jedi temple, then to Mustafar, saying that "only then will you be strong enough in the dark side to save Padme." It seems to me that Palpatine was largely inconsistent. Simply using a promise of power that he neither had, nor had any intention of helping Anakin use to save Padme's life, in order to get Anakin to do his bidding.

Anakin wasn't going to kill Palpatine over it though, as he was so preoccupied with trying to save Padme that he couldn't help but trust Palpatine in thinking that they could uncover the secret.

 

He did lie,and it was not even a factor or brought again after anakin turned(after the vader intiation of course) ...anakin didnt even want proof or anything..he really trusted palptine that much? I brought this same thing up in another recent thread..it puzzles me anybody can be so stupped..love or no love..

 

It's not a lie. Recall their conversation when Palpatine reveals himself to Anakin.

ANAKIN: "I wish I knew. More and more I get the feeling that I am being excluded from the Council. I know there are things about the Force that they are not telling me."

PALPATINE: "They don't trust you, Anakin. They see your future. They know your power will be too strong to control. Anakin, you must break through the fog of lies the Jedi have created around you. Let me help you to know the subtleties of the Force."

ANAKIN: "How do you know the ways of the Force?"

PALPATINE: "My mentor taught me everything about the Force . . . even the nature of the dark side."

ANAKIN: "You know the dark side?!?"

PALPATINE: "Anakin, if one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic, narrow view of the Jedi. If you wish to become a complete and wise leader, you must embrace a larger view of the Force. Only through me can you achieve a power greater than any Jedi. Learn to know the dark side of the Force, Anakin, and you will be able to save your wife from certain death."

ANAKIN: "What did you say?"

PALPATINE: "Use my knowledge, I beg you . . ."

ANAKIN: "You're a Sith Lord!"

PALPATINE: "I know what has been troubling you . . . Listen to me. Don't continue to be a pawn of the Jedi Council! Ever since I've known you, you've been searching for a life greater than that of an ordinary Jedi . . . a life of significance, of conscience."

ANAKIN: "You're wrong!"

PALPATINE: "Are you going to kill me?"

ANAKIN: "I would certainly like to."

PALPATINE: "I know you would. I can feel your anger. It gives you focus, makes you stronger."

ANAKIN: "I am going to turn you over to the Jedi Council."

PALPATINE: "Of course you should. But you're not sure of their intentions, are you?"

ANAKIN: "I will quickly discover the truth of all this."

PALPATINE: "You have great wisdom, Anakin. Know the power of the dark side. The power to save Padme."


Palpatine tells him that becoming his Apprentice and learning about the dark side will help him on his path to saving Padme. This is mentioned again.

PALPATINE: "You are fulfilling your destiny, Anakin. Become my apprentice. Learn to use the dark side of the Force."

PALPATINE: "Do what must be done, Lord Vader. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy. Only then will you be strong enough with the dark side to save Padme."

He never said that he had the power to save her outright.

PALPATINE: "I am your pathway to power. I have the power to save the one you love. You must choose. You must stop him."

He is Anakin's only guide to the dark side, he is the only one who will teach him to use the dark side of the Force and this in turn will allow him to save Padme.

 

Whether it's a lie or not I don't know, but it is definately a temptation for anakin, but...

When does Palpatine find out that anakin is married, and on top of that find out it's Padme?

 

Shortly after the ceremony.
Panaka was in Palpatine's circle of contacts, IIRC.

 

At best, Palpatine misled with the truth. Like a lawyer who asks a question and demands a 'yes' or 'no' answer, most of the time they're trying to hide something instead of make a point.

This is one of Palpatine's weirdest statements, I didn't even get what he meant for the longest time

PALPATINE: Because the Council did not trust you, my young apprentice, I believe you are the only Jedi with no knowledge of this plot. When the Jedi learn what has transpired here, they will kill us, along with all the Senators.

Then I realized that he was playing up treason argument.

PALPATINE: (continuing) Anakin, you know I'm not able to rely on the Jedi Council. If they haven't included you in their plot, they soon will.
ANAKIN: I'm not sure I understand.
PALPATINE: You must sense what I have come to suspect . . . the Jedi Council want control of the Republic . . . they're planning to betray me.

Pretty shakey ground, maybe Palpatine thought that way, but I can't believe Anakin would go along with that.

 

He doesn't until after he has turned to the dark side. That is when Anakin starts to believe that the Jedi were traitors. Before that, he wasn't sure of their intentions but he couldn't fully believe that they were traitors. It came down to the power issue.

 

Killing him won't change the situation or put Anakin back onto the Jedi's good side. He might aswell use Palpataine to gain as much power as he can. Plus he says that if they work together he is sure they can achieve the knowledge and power. Anakin killing Palpataine straight up would give him less a chance of saving Padme. Who is, after all, the whole reason he turned.

 

A good lawyer also never asks a question if they don't already know what the answer will be. He'd sealed the deal already, and just needed Anakin to sign on the dotted line, so to speak.

Anakin had become an accessory to murder by helping to kill Mace; Palp used his panic, guilt, and desperation to force Anakin to a foolish choice.

 

Sounds rubbish to me. Especially the middle line there.

So he has to first become his apprentice then learn the dark side before he can save her?

Does Anakin not remember he foresaw her die in child birth, she was pregnant and was going to be delivering very very soon.

So he's suppose to become an apprentice, learn the dark side of the force, and a power only once has achieved before all within a few days?

Palpatine said I have the power. Then says if We work together. So basically, he alone did not have the power.

 

That is true. Palpataine/Sidious claims to have the power to save Anakin's wife from certain death yet when the deed is done, he says that it's a power only one has achieved. Claiming that if they work together, which of course means Anakin giving himself completely to the darkside, will they be unable to uncover the secret.

Anakin should've remembered his teachings, the future is always in motion and it is never certain. For 13 years they've been sensing the darkside, and looking to the future when sensing such a presence is dangerous.

 

Anakin has to become his Apprentice, because it goes back to what was said in the Galaxies Theatre.

Anakin: "Is it possible to learn this power?"

Palpatine: "Not from a Jedi."

Combine that with his telling Anakin to become his Apprentience and we see that there is a price to pay for learning how to save Padme. He has to become a Sith Lord. He has to embrace the teachings of the dark side and use it without hesitation, in order to become strong enough to find out how to stop someone from dying. Palpatine has the power of the dark side, which he says is the power to save Padme. He never said that he knew how to do it. Just that he is the means to figuring it out.

BTW, Padme was about 6 months pregnant. So there was some time there.

 

Those're some awfully big kids for being born three months early, DS.

Anyway, yes, Palpatine basically lied to him. However, I wouldn't call Anakin's state of mind at that point exactly rational or clear-thinking (he's anything but that when doom is fast approaching, as AOTC illustrated) and he's practically a full-blown Sith Lord as it is by this point in the film anyway.

This is one of the scenes that simply work better in the novel, imo.

 

Allegation: Palpatine 'lied' to Anakin, from our (the audience's) point of view.

Evidence:

PALPATINE: I have the power to save the one you love.

Point of order: Palpatine's claim is technically not a lie, as Anakin never got the chance to see if Palpatine could save Padme or not. Palpatine was not on Mustafar to "stop" Anakin, nor was he on Polis Massa when Padme was giving birth -- and dying.

Now let us look to the OT and one Ben Kenobi, aka Obi-Wan Kenobi, former Jedi Master and Jedi council member in the old Republic.

Allegation: Ben lied to Luke

Evidence:

LUKE: How did my father die?

BEN: A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father.

Luke is orphaned, living with his aunt and uncle. All he knows is what he's been told about his father's fate.

Point of order: Obi-Wan lies to Luke. Luke's father is actually Vader. Anakin still lived, buried within the armor, sedated by the power of the dark side. Vader was in fact Anakin's alter ego, the murderous henchman of the Galactic Emperor.

We continue with the evidence:

LUKE
You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father.

BEN
You father was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I have told you was true... from a certain point of view.

LUKE (turning away, derisive) A certain point of view!

BEN
Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

Finding: Obi-Wan lied to Luke, where Palpatine did not lie to Anakin. Each believed in their respective points of view. Each used their means to achieve an end. Each aimed to play upon their apprentice's fears. Each suceeded in their aims. Yet we cannot know if Palpatine's claim would prove true, as Obi-Wan took Padme to Polis Massa, away from Palpatine's influence. Once Kenobi did this, Palpatine's claim was not a lie, it was unprovable. Kenobi's claim to Luke, on the other hand, was a blatant twisting of the truth, more of a lie in every legal way than was Palpatine's claim to Anakin.

Conclusion: Palpatine did not lie. Obi-Wan did -- from a certain point of view!!!!!

 

--Are you a trial lawyer by day, and a TFN philosopher by nite, Chron?



Hey Boba! You forgot to mention:

"That was an awfully small belly for being 6-months prego with those twins."

 

They have exterior wombs with cloaking devices in the GFFA, S3.

 

GGRRrrr.....
all I can say is the pesky Darth Plagueis novel got canceled and we'll never know!!!!!!!

 

Two things, Obi-Chron.

1. Obi-wan left Anakin to burn on Mustafar. As far as he knew, Palpatine was still on Coruscant. Thus there would be no one to come and save charbroiled Anakin. So it is true, especially if you leave out the eu where he did find out Vader was alive and looking rather scary.

2. Obi-wan was not quite lying as he was repeating what was the Jedi point of view on the Sith. When a Jedi turns a Sith, that person is no longer there. He/she is dead. Gone. Consumed. Look no further than what Yoda tells Obi-wan in the Temple.

Yoda: "Twisted by the dark side, young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is . . . Consumed by Darth Vader."

Yet it is not a lie, on Yoda's part. It is the point of view all Jedi. And for those who wish to cite the eu, even Qui-gon considered Anakin dead when he told Obi-wan that Vader would never return to Tatooine, for fear of resurrecting Anakin.