Palpatine: "Strange that I have not......."

Emperor Palpatine: I told you to remain on the command ship.
Darth Vader: A small rebel force has penetrated the shield and landed on Endor.
Emperor Palpatine: Yes, I know.
Darth Vader: My son is with them.
Emperor Palpatine: Are you sure?
Darth Vader: I have felt him, my master.
Emperor Palpatine: Strange that I have not. I wonder if your feelings on this matter are clear, Lord Vader.
Darth Vader: They are clear, my master.
Emperor Palpatine: Then you must go to the sanctuary moon and wait for him.
Darth Vader: He will come to me?
Emperor Palpatine: I have foreseen it. His compassion for you will be his undoing. He will come to you and you will bring him before me.
Darth Vader: As you wish.


Why wasn't Palpatine able to sense that Luke was with the Rebels on Endor?

This is very interesting because:

1.He didn't sense Luke's presence.
2.He didn't foresee Vader's redemption.

Could it be that, for some unknown reason, a few brief moments in ROTJ, the Dark Side was as blind as the Light Side was in the Prequel Trilogy? If so, what could have caused this?

(Most likely the will of the Force).

 

vader's bond to luke is one of love thats what saves him in the end and allows him to come back as a ghost, the darkside knows nothing of love

 

two possible reasons.

#1--Vader has a strong bond with Luke; so strong that he actually still has conflicted emotions for him

#2--Perhaps in a reversal of roles, the dark side is being clouded by the light. In the PT, the light side is dominant, and a rise in the dark side begins to cloud it, while in the OT the dark side is dominant, and a rise in the light side clouds it

 

the darkside knows nothing of love

That is actually a very good point.

Love comes from the Light Side of the Force.

 

I think love is more of a knife's edge deal. Love can also be possessive, dark, and dangerous, don't forget.

How I intepret ESB - Vader found out Luke's indentity through the rebel that was captured and interrogated. However, Luke only became visible through the Force once he started training. After that, his powers were no longer dormant, and he was sending out little ripples in the Force.

 

Love can also be possessive, dark, and dangerous, don't forget.


Not unconditional love.

 

not so fast though....if u remember A Jedi knows not anger, fear, LOVE, and aggression. A jedi is suppose to be selfless so love. Like Yoda said "A jedi uses the force for balance and knowledge"

 

If a Jedi didn't have unconditional love, then he wouldn't be out in the galaxy saving people and doing good deeds.

 

but unconditinal love is where no matter what someone does they love....if so they would love the Sith also. Jedi are protectors of the galaxy like Obi-Wan mention in ANH. Jedi's are suppose to be emotionalless....like what Yoda tells Anakin in ROTS I will not spoil it....but he explains love to him....Jedi are not suppose to be in love.

 

No, unconditional love is where you love the PERSON no matter what they do. You can hate with every fiber of your being the ACTIONS that they DO. But you still love the PERSON and want what's best for them, and for everybody else as well.

Sometimes what's best for them and everybody else is for them to simply die. (Palpatine) In that case you love them enough to give them what they and everybody else collectively so desperately need.

Sometimes what's best for them and everybody else is for them to die redeemed. (Anakin) There was truly no other option for Anakin, he'd spent 20 years destroying his image in the public eye, nobody would have ever believed in his return to being a Jedi. Except Luke of course, and only because Luke loved the person of his father without condoning the evil he had done. But Luke, though he wanted his father to live, eventually came to realize there was no other way. He loved his father enough to let him go. Anakin didn't love Padme enough to let her go, unfortunately.

And sometimes what's best for them is to simply be punished for a short while, and then forgiven and given another chance. (Kyp Durron?)

That is the essence of unconditional love, and it is the core of the Jedi creed when properly understood. Part of the problem is you are misquoting and misinterpreting Yoda's words in all the movies (but especially ROTS). It's not hard with the tortured form of grammar he uses. But it's still misinterpreted. A Jedi must be a servant of all, and look to serve the greater good without using evil along the way. That is true love. Luke begins to understand this better in the later books (or at least the ones I've read)... Yoda, for all his wisdom, didn't know everything, though I think he may have started to understand a good bit more after years of studying on Dagobah. Nor did he entirely NOT get it even in ROTS. He just didn't get it all... yet. Please CAREFULLY note that in ESB the proper quote is "Anger, fear, agression, the dark side of the force are they...." There is no mention of love... at all. Yoda was too busy training Luke to withstand the wiles of Vader and the Emperor to worry about what Luke could discover on his own at a later date. Also recall what Obi-Wan said in ROTJ. "Bury your feelings, Luke. They do you credit..." THEY were a GOOD THING!!! "... but they could be made to serve the emperor." but beware lest his good intentions be manipulated into turning him to evil (as Anakin's had been).

When you put it all together, you can see the whole picture. Love is not evil. The Jedi didn't fully understand this in the Old Republic. They saw love as a route to temptation. But the love that can be tempted and twisted like that is not really love at all, but selfishness and greed masquerading as love. Obi-Wan and Yoda, together with one other, discovered it and began to finally understand during the 20+ year gap between EP2 and EP 6. TRUE love is a route to redemption, and the very quality a Jedi needs most. And the very quality a real person needs most, as well.

RH

 

If love becomes dark or posessive then it is no longer love, it is something else.

 

I just saw the original trillogy and this line doesn't make any sence. Remember in ESP that it was the Emperor that had to convince Vader that "the one that destroyed the deathstar is the offspring of Anikin Skywalker...Search your feelings..."

 

:::I just saw the original trillogy and this line doesn't make any sence. Remember in ESP that it was the Emperor that had to convince Vader that "the one that destroyed the deathstar is the offspring of Anikin Skywalker...Search your feelings..."

Vader was lying to the Emperor in TESB. I mean he's been searching for Luke Skywalker for half of the movie already. So I take his his "How is that possible", as more like "Blast it! He knows... Let me see if I can convince him to *not* make me destroy this boy just yet..."

The Empror was lying to Vader in ROTJ. I think he knew Luke was in theater. He said he had foreseen that "he will come to you, and then you will bring him before me." I mean, it's pretty clear that he's just testing Vader's loyalty there.

 

Deception is the prime tool of the Sith... it fits.

RH

 

I hate to break it to you guys but when Vader kills the emperor it is not his direct love for Luke.

Now with Sith in the mix it is his love for Padme and the life could he have had that erupt in him.

He lets go the thing he has become and redeems himself. Otherwise he would still be living after all, from the lightning point of view he didn't get fried nearly as half as Luke did.

So first it goes from being able to once again feel compassion for someon suffering. Then identifying that person as the son he had. To the love he once felt for Padme. To the love he still feels for Padme. To regret of making horrible choices that took it awy from him. To acceptance and to finally realizing that he has only himself to blame.

Then with one quick blow he washes it all away by thoring the emperor over. Look, analysis of stories is what your looking for here. This is Lucas's ultimate goal here, that Vader is redeemable after so much evil he has comitted.

So that being said, why does the emperor not sense Luke? Because those feelings that are beinning to erupt and conflict with Vader are obviously masking Luke's presence to the emperor without Vader knowing it. So instinctivly he is trying to protect his son, while the Man that is Vader is set on the goal of gaining ultimate power because his unwillingness to accept responsibilty for those decisions that led him to his current state. This explains why he goes and tells the emperor that Luke is around.

 

RobertHuntingdon, that's the best post I've read on these boards in months. Kudos.

 

Perhaps the Dark side was blinded for a bit because the balance of the Force was to be tipped back towards the Light side. Just as the Jedi in the prequels were not aware of the Dark side before the Force went that way.

 

--If love becomes dark or posessive then it is no longer love, it is something else.--

exactly it becomes lust.

 

Palpatine knows that Luke will come to Vader. For some reason, he might not know when and where, but once Vader reveals that Luke is on Endor, Palpatine realizes that this is an opportune moment to test both Luke and Vader.

As to why Palpatine did not sense Luke, could just be that he wasn't trying to. Palpy may have been too busy trying to forsee the various outcomes of the upcoming battle and how he may twist it to his advantage. He was distracted by more pressing matters.

 

I've wondered about this scene a lot lately. After reading your posts, I think that love of any kind is irrelevant. Anakin was never able to let go of his feelings, at least until he found out that Padme was dead. So perhaps Luke sparked the emotions of his past and he felt there was a chance to regain some of what he lost when he lost Padme making Vader more in tune with Luke's presence in the Force.

As far as Palpatine's ability to forsee anything, let's remember that Anakin's visions, while correct, never fortell all. Some details are not forseen. Anakin was only certain of Padme's death in childbirth. He did not know what would happen to the baby. Palpatine forsaw Luke's ability to destroy him, not how he would do it. He said that Luke must know now that his father could never be turned, but he was. Palpatine didn't forsee little fuzzy creatures helping the rebels destroy the energy shield either.

As far as why Vader could sense Luke's presence, I'm not sure. Palpatine may have sensed it, but lied to Vader to test Vader's reaction and loyalty. However, I am wondering about the light vs. dark sides. Is it possible that a being could be so consumed by the darkside that he/she no longer feels the light side's presence? I also wonder if beings on each side give off their own individual "vibes" through the force. Vader told Tarkin that he was certain that Obi-Wan was aboard the Death Star in ANH because of the disturbance in the Force. Well, if Obi-Wan didn't affect the Force in a particular way, how could Vader identify him so certainly? It could have been any surviving Jedi, yes?

With that said, I can see why Obi-Wan and Yoda would have been in grave danger after Anakin turned. He would have sensed their presence through the Force, and hunted them down and killed them. Vader first felt Luke through the Force during the Battle of Yavin. At the time he didn't know he was his son, but only that the Force was "strong in this one." He later found out, and came face to face with him at the end of ESB. To my knowledge, Luke and Palpatine met for the first and only time at the end of ROTJ and most of his knowledge of Luke seems to come to him in visions.

So, would it have even been possible for Palpatine to have sensed Luke's presence because he never met him face to face? Could, as someone else suggested, the dark side cloud the Sith mind? Or it could be a lapse in ability? Let's face it, Palpatine is getting on in years, and, unless the Rise of Vader novel, tells us otherwise, he's spent the 20 years between ROTS and ANH building his empire virtually unchallenged. Like a jellyfish that loses its sting due to a lack of predators, the Sith lord, with no Jedi to thwart him, loses his ability to sense a light side presence in the Force.

 

Why did Vader tell Palpatine this? He could have done what he did in ESB and secretly try to get Luke to join him in overthrowing the Emperor. Perhaps he already knew Luke wouldn't turn, so the next best thing to do was obey his master.

I don't know about the light side clouding the dark. Yoda said that the dark side clouds everything, not the light. Palpatine probably just isn't seeing everything he thinks he is. He's overconfident about his power.

 

Vader did not know why he could sense Luke until he learned that Luke was his son. Remember that Darth Vader was able to determine that Luke was on Hoth just by seeing an image of the shield generators.

Luke had a strong bond with his father, whether it was Love or genetics. Don't forget that at the same time Vader sensed Luke, Luke realized that Vader knew he was there.

 

I think what blinds him is the shift of the force. In the PT its on the Sith's side. They appear for the first time in a millenuim, one of the Jedi's own (Count Dooku) has turned to the darkside,and Palpatines plan is finally coming to shape.

At the end of ROTJ its starts to shift back to The Jedi. Luke is fully trained and capable to fight Vader and have a chance of winning. (even though he does not want to). Vaders redemption and the Prophecy of the Chosen one is about come true.

So Just like the Jedi were blinded in the PT Palpatine is just as blind during ROTJ.




Emporer Gerner Dark Lord of the Sith

 

Vader is not fully bound to the dark side. If there is a tremor in the Force that Luke and Anakin share, it's weight carries over to the lightside. Love and compassion is strong with the lightside so Palpatine can't sense Luke's presence, although Vader can.