Palpatine's quest for power: Sith or Personal?

What do you guys feel Palpatine's greatest motivation was in terms of power. Was he truly interested in Sith supremacy, or do you feel that his quest for power was more personal? In that light, do you feel the revenge he sought against the Jedi was completely in terms of their having ruled for 1000 years suppressing the Sith; or did he have other personal motivations?

He didn't appear to wish to 'take over' the Jedi role as defender of the republic - and yet he could have taken that stance once they were overcome. Instead he wanted to "rule" completely as Emperor. Doesn't this reflect a quest for personal power in addition to any desire for Sith supremacy over the Jedi?

His takeover culminated in ROTS and since we are in prequel land, I was thinking in terms of focusing mainly on that era. up to the end of ROTS.

 

Sith ideology seems to boil down to the individual striving to gain as much power and control as they can in order to dominate those weaker than themselves, either using or destroying them. So I guess it's difficult to separate the two motivations - personal or ideological.

 

Bingo.


Palpatine was Sith, and as such, it is his personal quest to gain power. Sidious was the embodiment of what Plagueis trained and manipulated him to be. There is no separation,



"You must begin by gaining power over yourself; then another; then a group, an order, a world, a species, a group of species? finally, the galaxy itself."
-Darth Plagueis


"Do you feel the hate? ? It is the source of your strength. You still hate me. No matter. Today you have delivered yourself into my hands. I have the power of life and death over you, Maul. Someday, you will hold that power over another. It is the honor of the Sith. You will devote yourself to the idea of domination."
-Darth Sidious

"All the players are now in place. It is time to initiate the end moves. The plan of many long years shall bear fruit at last!"
-Darth Sidious

"The Sith rely on their passion for their strength. They think inward, only about themselves."
-ANAKIN

 

So you think that Palpatine was so immersed in the Sith ideology, it never crossed his mind what power might avail him on a ultra personal level? Meaning, he was almost on automatic in achieving power because that is "what Sith do". Do you think that he might have found that in doing that, the benefits, the power, was also something that fulfilled him personally as well? You know what I mean?

It is kind of hard to explain. I agree the ideas can't really be separated, but I sometimes got the idea that matters became super personal for Palpatine - that his own need for revenge at times guided him instead of his simply gaining the power because that is what he was supposed to do. So I guess it boils down to this: If Palpatine wasn't a Sith, would a man of his character seek power - all the power - anyway? Is it that only a man of his character could be a good Sith?

(Those quotes were great, btw, Slayer. I think that explains what you guys have stated very well.)

 

I think that as has been mentioned, the two are one in the same. As for the question of whether or not he would do it if he weren't a Sith, probably. If Palpatine hadn't been born a Sith, but his personality were roughly the same, his desire for power would still exist, though I would imagine he might not feel the need to destroy the Jedi as they would simply be something to be utilized in his quest for power rather than an enemy to be destroyed. I'm also unsure that he would feel the need to become Emperor without the Dark Side given the vast power he had accrued even as Chancellor.

 

The sith fool themselves into thinking power is the only thing they need to be happy and fulfilled. And of course the pupil also has to see the "truth".

The master will mold the pupil in young years into the right mindstate by taking his pupils power away-as completely as possible. So I believe if Palpatine had grown up differently his hunger for power may have been weaker.

 

Based upon what little I know about Maul's Sith tutelage, I am of the belief that Palpatine came to become a Sith later in life, sometime late in his teens or early 20's. So yes, a man of his character was the perfect choice to recruit as a Sith Lord. I like to think an already manipulative Palpatine was consumed with greed and Plagueis turned that into pure, unbridled lust for power... before refining his Apprentice.

The following quote smacks me as being between two adults, not a youngling and an elder.

"Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you." -Darth Plagueis

Also, I know that Sidious took the young Zabrak as experiment, to pervert the Jedi Master-Apprentice relationship. The end result was stunning to me...

Aside from Zannah, I got the impression that very few Banite-Sith were trained from birth. Another factor that lends itself to that conclusion is how Darth Krayt began training his key Sith from birth, on Korriban. Anakin's greed was based upon possesive love. So in my eyes, he wasn't an ideal Sith candidate because his downfall was rooted in his compasionate; albeit misguided, nature.

 

I always felt like Palps really didn't care much about liberating the Sith or the purpose of defeating the Jedi. He wanted to rule, and he wanted to use the darkside as a force to get him there.

He wanted an apprentice to do all the dirty work while he sat on his throne. He wanted to destroy the Jedi because if they weren't taken out, they'd come after him.

I'm not saying Palps wasn't a Sith, but I just felt like his own greed for power overcame his ideals as a Sith. He did everything a Sith would do, but he could really care less about bringing up a brotherhood or outbranching the Sith.

 

I like that quote, I think that answers the question admirably. Where is that quote from btw? I think that does show that Palpatine was a perfect specimen for a Sith when found. I mean, Plagueis is being straight forward about his manipulative plans and yet, that does not deter Palpatine from seeking to use the Sith path to power (which at that point would have been more personally orientated as he had yet to study the Sith lore) So perhaps that is what happened/happens. A perfect Sith will find the teachings compeltely in line with their present ideology and as you and others have been saying, the two simply mesh into a single ideology for the individual.

I would also agree that Anakin's quest for Sithhood was totally marred by the root of his desire for power. Which brings up an interetsing question about Palpatine. What was his inherent nature? What drove his desire to be a Sith. Was his quest for power solely based in his desire to be a great man that others would place on a pedestal? Did he wish for others to fear him as well as see him as powerful, or to love him and see him as powerful? Or did he simply not care either way, he just simply wished to be seen as powerful? And is that even right? Was it merely the recognition power he sought (both personal and in terms of a Sith), or something else?

 

Business, never personal.
[image=http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/071212/newjack_l.jpg]
(Obi-Wan being the exception)

 

it was all business if personal he would of had a wife and children and broke the cycle. someone would have to be really into their faith to be willing to sacrifice the things he did to get to where they wanted to be. btw sith ways are personal..so its kinda confusing lol

 

Umm isint this apart of being a sith?

and he did say "once more the sith will rule the galaxy" if it was personal why would he say that. it is all about him but the sith code is what keeps them going

 

Greed for power is a Sith ideal, in fact it's the engine of the Sith. I see what you're saying though - even if Palpatine wasn't a Sith, he probably would still have been a power crazed megalomaniac.

But a megalomaniac with force lightning is so much more compelling!

 

It was all about greed. He used whoever he wanted and didn't care if they died. Well, except Anakin. But, he only want him to live because it would help him to gain the control & power he wanted.

 

,,But, he only want him to live because it would help him to gain the control & power he wanted.,,

I think he wanted Anakin as a trophy,a living proof how even the greatest jedi can fall.

 

Both for the Sith and personal.

 

Or come to think of it, Palpatine despised the Jedi so much he wanted them gone and keep anybody from thinking they're good. Besides, they always fought to ward off crime and complex political problems.

 

Because he was a Sith, his goals and motives were always personal.

If you think about it, the Jedi are supposed to be completely opposite to the Sith. Their goals are supposed to be for the public benefit only.

 

The Sith are an odd bunch indeed. The Rule of Two is designed for the good of the Sith, and yet that very premise surely would not seem to play nice with Sith philosophy. Out of Universe, the Sith are almost Social Darwinist in their views (I hate having to put the term 'Darwinist' in there since 'Social Darwinism' is pure political pseudoscience).

Palpatine perhaps embodied the Sith. Or, perhaps he fed/served the Darkside, getting a trade off. The Darkside seems to have narcotic properties at any rate.

Palps is a difficult one to figure out.

 

Out of Universe, the Sith are almost Social Darwinist in their views (I hate having to put the term 'Darwinist' in there since 'Social Darwinism' is pure political pseudoscience).

I don't see the problem with attaching an apalling social theory that was basically a thinly veiled excuse for genocide to the worst bad guys in Star Wars, myself.

 

I don't either.

 

Good point!

I was in mind of people who are confused by those who abuse the term.

It does fit them well though.

 

Neither do I. In fact, I think you could change the name at the end (of my next quote) to "Darth Darwin" and no-one would argue.

"You must begin by gaining power over yourself; then another; then a group, an order, a world, a species, a group of species? finally, the galaxy itself." --Darth Plagueis

 

Yes, SSS.

And this is why the notion of Sith Cause is ridiculous.

Is Palpatine the pinnacle? The pinnacle meant by the likes of Bane and Maul?

 

I know this may sound absurd to most purists but, in my eyes at least, Darth Maul was the pinnacle of Bane's reformation of the Sith. Dooku lovers will cry "FOUL!" and Vader lovers will cry "HERESY!!" No matter, I will remain steadfast...

Think about it.

Take the saga's order out of the equation.
Follow it linearly, and where do we arrive?

Right here:
Raised from adolescence, indoctrinated to hate the Jedi, forged into one of the galaxy's greatest duelists... so immersed in the dark side that even after his death, his ship causes a Jedi Master to hear tempations...

Maul is the epitomy of what we call Sith.

***

The question I now have is:
was Maul's motivation for destroying the Jedi, personal or Sith?
And what makes Maul's, any different than Palpatine's?