Palpatine's withering patience.

I noticed something in Revenge of the Sith that is very subtle... maybe I'm reading too much into detail.

When Palpatine tells Anakin in the opera house to sit next to him, he turns to his current company and says: "Leave us."

Did anyone but me notice this was said in a rather bitter tone?

Not the only instance in which it seems Palpatine's patience is coming to a quick end after all these years of bending the senate to his will. In a deleted scene with Padme presenting the petition of the 1000 (or whatever,) there is another instance in which Palpatine snaps at one of the senators. (the dirty looking one that I think is sitting. Has the crazy hair.)

Palpatine in TPM would never snap like that. I'm not so sure he would make it so blatant in AOTC, either.


Were these meant to be subtle clues that even a Sith has limited patience with putting up with enemies for years and years?

 

He was practicing his Emperor voice.


They all know he is a Sith, so he doesn't have to hide the fact from them.

 

^Yep.

To those guys, Palpatine was the evil Dark Lord of the Sith... but to Anakin, he was a withered, old Chancellor...

 

Plus, by the time of ROTS he has the power and influence he was craving in TPM--therefore, no more need to be polite.

 

Where does it show that the Delegation of Two Thousand knows Palpatine is a Sith Lord? If you'll recall, in one of the scenes that was kept...Obiwan explains to Padme that Palpatine is the Sith Lord they had been looking for. And nowhere in the deleted scenes, does it even mention they have even an inkling that Palpatine is a Force User, let alone a Dark Lord of the Sith

 

I was referring to Palp's crew at the opera house, not the Delegation of 2000.

 

And the "leave us" quote comes mere seconds before any lingering doubts about Palpatine being a Sith Lord are ruled out, with the Tradegy of Palgueis the Wise.

Definitely a deliberate decision by GL to tell Ian to "Emporer it up" a bit with this line.

 

Yes.

I made posts along the lines of what the topic starter identified just after I'd seen ROTS. Gah -- well over a year ago now!

The facade of the goodly Chancellor is breaking away and the real Sidious is coming through in ROTS. This somewhat mirrors the fracturing of Anakin's own conscience and the spilling forth of Vader. It also somewhat mirrors the war itself: nothing less than a full-scale eruption over the "jewel" of the galaxy, Coruscant. The warring ships just skim the upper edges of the atmosphere, threatening to destroy the Republic outright, just as Sidious is on the verge of declaring his Empire and sweeping the once-good "face" of the Republic away forever. There are ominous black urns in his antechamber, an epic mural that lines the corridor and gothic statues present just off into the near-distance of the main office when Anakin discovers the truth. Palpatine also sports some very suggestive robes that are a mixture of blood-red and void-black. In addition to "Leave us!" at the opera, there are also some Sidious-like intonations during the reveal scene and again during the confrontation with Mace. It all points to one thing: inevitability. Palpatine is dressed, decorated and primed to kill. Indeed, as Sidious says to Commander Cody, "the time has come." Every little affectation is one more step: the language, the insinuations, the glances, the voice, the lightsaber, the faces, the window smashing, the cobra-like stance during "No, no, no!", the lightning, the eyes, the deformation, the sadistic execution, the sudden rise to standing, the knighting of Vader, the withered viper-like hands assuming their familiar position, the flipping of the hood, and finally, the mounting of the chair. Always the chair. The Emperor has arrived: "Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy and we shall have... peace."

 

There is a good explanation for Palpatines breaking away.They discovered General Grievous position and the Jedi are ready for next move.After that Palpatine would have to give up his emegency power and he didn't turned Anakin yet.He was without apprentice and without the plan to destroy the Jedi.Thats why he came out with that story about Darth Plagueis, to accelerate Anakins turning on dark path.The lost of his control is obvious in that moment.

 

It nicely mirrors his "leave us" from ROTJ.

 

indeed..

 

I'm sure he viewed his patience as a necessary evil...which, when closer the end came...became less and less necessary. He was an angry guy you know.

 

Sly Moore and Mas Ameeda both knew who Palpatine really was and fully supported him. But I wouldn't say it is his patience, rather he is being direct and to the point. It is a command rather than a mere dismissial. Though yes, his anger is coming to the forefront more and more.

 

the first time we see an inkling of this in ROTS is when Palps commands Anakin to leave Kenobi aboard the Invisible Hand.

 

No.

It's when he tells Anakin to kill Dooku: "Do it!"

His seduction moves up a gear at that precise moment.

Telling Anakin to leave Obi Wan is very suggestive, though: "Leave him or we'll never make it." If Anakin leaves Obi Wan, which he ultimately does, in a metaphorical sense, by leaving the way of the Jedi, then and only then can he and Anakin make it as rulers of the galaxy. Though I think this might also be another little deception by Palpatine. When he says "we", he obviously wants the characters to think he's talking about them both, and that they're part of the same team, but I think he's actually talking about himself. Remember: he has a dual persona; hence "we". Palpatine/Sidious cannot make it without Anakin abandoning his Jedi principles and becoming a Sith.

It's interesting to note that Palpatine reveals himself when Obi Wan and Yoda, the two Jedi that Anakin confides in, have left Coruscant. Which key master in Anakin's life is left? Why, Mace Windu, the one Jedi Master with a major speaking part who Anakin never confides in; the one he feels least comfortable around; the one he's forced to go to for help. Also: after Anakin reports to Palpatine that Obi Wan has engaged General Grievous, Palpatine responds: "We can only hope that Master Kenobi is up to the challenge." That's something else he also means. Grievous needs to go and Obi Wan needs to survive to accompany Padme and battle Anakin in order to fully put Anakin on the Dark Side.

Fantastic saga.

 

Well, recording to Sinister, Palpatines first plan was that Dooku kill Obi-Wan.Since plan failed and Obi-Wan survived, Palpatine tried to remove Obi-Wan with that suggestion.But Anakin was still "good" (maybe not completely), so he refuses to listen Palpatines suggestion.I don't belive that this was Palpatines plan, but who knows, maybe Sinister was right like he always is.

 

P.S. Welcome to the board, StarWarsIsUs. Based on your two existing posts, I sense you will become a great Jedi Knight.

 

Telling Anakin to leave Obi Wan is very suggestive, though: "Leave him or we'll never make it." If Anakin leaves Obi Wan, which he ultimately does, in a metaphorical sense, by leaving the way of the Jedi, then and only then can he and Anakin make it as rulers of the galaxy. Though I think this might also be another little deception by Palpatine. When he says "we", he obviously wants the characters to think he's talking about them both, and that they're part of the same team, but I think he's actually talking about himself. Remember: he has a dual persona; hence "we". Palpatine/Sidious cannot make it without Anakin abandoning his Jedi principles and becoming a Sith. ^^^Cryogenic, of course^^^

sneaky snarky Palpatine - and every gesture, every preview of these coming attractions, even as early as TPM - these all are indications of how terrific George Lucas is - they originated with The Maker. Everything is going as planned.

 

"Let me help you to know... the subtleties of the Force."

Actually, it should be noted that Lucas didn't have everything planned out. I think he's rather like Palpatine: "There is a question of procedure, but I'm confident we can overcome it." His filmmaking is rather capricious. He assembles the films from a wealth of ideas. This has a good and bad side, though more good than bad. I like the fluidic feel. Lucas didn't quite know any more than anyone else just how the nuances would fall into place. The only big inconsistency for me, and it's still not huge, is Palpatine's appearance: In Episode II, he's clearly withering, with pale skin, red eyes, brown spots, sagging skin and a drawn face, but in Episode III, he's back to his earlier spritely self. One could say that the threat of war hangs heavy on the chap without his emergency powers, even though the war is totally of his making, and when he gets them, he slowly returns to his normal self, as if to mock the Jedi's ability to see, yet failure to perceive. Or maybe he *really* was withering until the galaxy went to hell in a handbasket and the shroud of the Dark Side fell. Who knows? But George clearly had a different approach in mind back then. It was better he had him suddenly de-masked, I think: this twisted torrent of evil now revealed. And he used the de-making in such a significant way. Also note: Palpatine was happy to shed his face, because it *was* his mask in the end, but Anakin had no intention of losing his, yet did so anyway, and then acquired a mask. By film's end, Sidious is happy to be out, smiling at Anakin's fate, but Anakin is crushed, and apparently no more. I think this approach to faces and masks really established the pecking order and showed just who benefited from Anakin's turn in a powerful way.

 

Bless you, Cryogenic.

 

The only big inconsistency for me, and it's still not huge, is Palpatine's appearance: In Episode II, he's clearly withering, with pale skin, red eyes, brown spots, sagging skin and a drawn face, but in Episode III, he's back to his earlier spritely self.

Ian was sick during the filming of AOTC, IIRC.

 

That still doesn't explain all those make-up wrinkles on his face. It's well known that GL originally wanted Palpatine to physically deteriorate into his "Emperor" self - gradually. He then flip-flopped for ROTS.

Even then, the buldges on his forehead in ROTS don't make him look as alien as he was in ROTJ (it was speculated at that time that GL wanted "the Emperor" to be some sort of alien humanoid, novelizations be damned).

 

No, it was in ROTS when Ian and Hayden did the opera scene. That was make-up that Ian wore in AOTC. According to the Visual Dictionary for ROTS or the ROTS commentary or Hyperspace, Lucas couldn't decide how Palpatine's change would go. He was debating between a slow change, a change back & forth and what we get in the final film. So when original plans called for Ian to continue the slow turn were scrapped, apparently the make-up team was either told to or opted on their own to leave him looking unblemished. One could say that in AOTC, he was making himself look haggard out as part of his effort to prevent the outbreak of war. But by ROTS, he's not as stressed as before.

 

I'm not sure on that one (see the comparison pics towards the bottom of the web site below):

http://www.darkhorse.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=8515&start=15&sid=26f32adf2654a3c5f15ff29f524e9bfb

[And no - I do NOT post there. I just googled "older in AOTC" to find some decent web sites on the subject.]

 

I thought that in AOTC, we see effects of the darkside creeping through but by the time of ROTS he has used whatever dark side power he has to disguise his true face to a greater level.

Then when he finally releases all his anger/hate on Mace, he no longer maintains the illusion of Palpatine's face.

That's the way I look at it, he was stronger by the time of ROTS if you like.