Pledging Allegience/Nationalism/American Values/American Dream

If you are a United States citizen,

do you pledge allegiance to the country/flag?
Why or why not?
Do you honor holidays such as the 4th of July?
Memorial Day?
Veterans Day?
Do you care about dropping the flag on the ground (the whole burn it if you drop it thing)?
Do you believe in the American Dream? What is that for you?

I'm aware this may be a controversial subject, but I'm curious what people think about it. Is it a form of idol worship for example or is it a way to honor the deads of people who fought for the US to exist? Perhaps both or neither?

Is nationalism positive or negative?

Where do you stand and why?

 

do you pledge allegiance to the country/flag? No

Why or why not? I don't really pledge allegiance to anything or anybody.

Do you honor holidays such as the 4th of July? I didn't before, but I have a child who appreciates explosives, so we partake in that aspect.

Memorial Day? I honor the memory of those who are dear to me, and don't need a particular day dedicated to it.

Veterans Day? See above.

Do you care about dropping the flag on the ground (the whole burn it if you drop it thing)? No, it's wasteful... and really, dropping a piece of fabric isn't going to bring about armegeddon.

Do you believe in the American Dream? What is that for you? I believe in dreams, and don't think a nationality should be assigned to them.

Is nationalism positive or negative? Meh... neither

Where do you stand and why? I don't care.

 

do you pledge allegiance to the country/flag? No.
Why or why not? The words are kind of meaningless, and I'm mostly ambivalent about my citizenship to the US.
Do you honor holidays such as the 4th of July? Good day to be at the lake, but not as a patriotic celebration.
Memorial Day? No. An excuse to proclaim the righteousness of our military actions.
Veterans Day? No. It's Remembrance Day.
Do you care about dropping the flag on the ground (the whole burn it if you drop it thing)? not really.
Do you believe in the American Dream? What is that for you? No. It's an illusion exploited and patented by capitalists that leads to more harm than good.

Is nationalism positive or negative? negative as an 'ism' but everyone should have a love for their land.

[/cynicism]

 

What? No SPQR?

 

do you pledge allegiance to the country/flag? No
Why or why not? Because I don't care.
Do you honor holidays such as the 4th of July? Sure
Memorial Day? I take a moment of silence
Veterans Day? See above
Do you care about dropping the flag on the ground (the whole burn it if you drop it thing)? I don't care
Do you believe in the American Dream? What is that for you? There is no "American dream." There is a human dream. As a Christian, I believe all humans should have access to the human dream. The human dream of life, happiness, and success.

I'm aware this may be a controversial subject, but I'm curious what people think about it. Is it a form of idol worship for example or is it a way to honor the deads of people who fought for the US to exist? Perhaps both or neither? If people want to feel pride in something, they should be allowed to.

Is nationalism positive or negative? Depends on the situation

 

Good answer Grand Gelatin.

I always though it was a bit strange how paranoid people are about things like dropping the US flag. I've always tended to observe that tradition, but you get the sense from this culture that if one happens to drop the flag...the world just might explode.

I think there are plenty of people who sacrificed a ton, who lived in this country, and who would probably claim it was for the country. However, I don't think many would claim that what they did for the country was so much nationalistic as it was for the people in said country.

I have no more qualms about honoring WW2 veterans, for example, than I do about honoring Martin Luther King Jr. for what he accomplished.

I find it interesting that some might honor a person like MLK, but not a founding father of the country. Perhaps so much time has passed that people simply don't care if others over 200 years ago did much of anything. I guess it depends on what one believes is for the good of a nation vs. what is good for humanity. Except, that a nation is representative of large groups of people...it seems boiling these things down to simple abstracts has the danger of distorting what's important and what's not.

...hmmm

[hour_glass]

 

Can I state this as an outsider who has done a semster of American history?

I found it annoying in the extreme when I tried to look up any remotely public historical figure that I kept finding a man of marble rather than an actual person. What purpose does it serve to put someone up on a pedestal if all you understand that they were a really good guy?

Washington is a prime example, I still remember almost tearing my hair out trying to find a real book on him.

 

I remember doing this in grade school.

 

I can totally see that.

 

- do you pledge allegiance to the country/flag?

Nope

- Why or why not?

I'm a follower of Jesus, and as such my alligence is to his Kingdom. The United States stands directly in opposition to the Kingdom I stand for in a number of different ways, so it'd be silly to pledge allegiance to it

- Do you honor holidays such as the 4th of July?

Not particularly

- Memorial Day?

Not particularly

- Veterans Day?

Not particularly

- Do you care about dropping the flag on the ground (the whole burn it if you drop it thing)?

Not at all

- Do you believe in the American Dream? What is that for you?

I believe that such a thing exists...and I guess I'd simply say 'personal success'

- I'm aware this may be a controversial subject, but I'm curious what people think about it. Is it a form of idol worship for example or is it a way to honor the deads of people who fought for the US to exist? Perhaps both or neither?

It's understandable that people who are proud of this country would want to celebrate the people and circumstances that are responsible for things being the way they are today.

Is nationalism positive or negative?

Negative. It's not really any different than racism, in my opinion.

 

*runs*

 

do you pledge allegiance to the country/flag?

No.

Why or why not?
I think it is a form of brainwashing to make little kids do this stuff. It reminds me of Nazi children's clubs and I think it's a fascist tradition. It's one thing to sing a patriotic song at special events or on holidays (which I don't do either) but pledging allegiance just seems wrong to me.


Do you honor holidays such as the 4th of July?
I guess so. Kind of. I will not be the type of person that has big cookouts for the occasion though.

Memorial Day?
Not really.

Veterans Day?
Not really. No disrespect or anything.

Do you care about dropping the flag on the ground (the whole burn it if you drop it thing)?
Gods no. Talk about idol worship! I burn my prayer flags when they get old though

Do you believe in the American Dream? What is that for you?
No I do not because it's a story meant to make people feel nice about their country. It's a wonderful sentiment, and some people feel like they have lived that dream, but I don't find value in it. I guess ultimately the dream is that in America anyone can make a buck off of someone.

 

There are many types of "nationalism." People nowadays take it as similar to or a more extreme form of patriotism, but that's not really what it meant throughout most of history. For example, the French Revolution in 1789 was very nationalistic. The movement wasn't necessarily based on the idea of French superiority or anything. The idea in overthrowing the absolutist monarchy was establishing a state that worked for the French people (nation). Louis XVI and his predecessors obviously were French, but they did not govern on behalf of the French people. The most common form of nationalism was (and still kinda is) a certain ethnic group (nation) wanting to break away from the control of a state run by another ethnic group. Modern examples include the Basques in Spain and France, the Kurds in Turkey, Iraq, and Iran, and the Chechens in Russia. Nationalism created our concept of what a state should be; it broke up most empires, it abolished or marginalized monarchies, and it gave nations self-determination.

It also was a primary cause of the most devastating wars in human history (LET US DEFEND THE MOTHERLAND!!!) and killed well over a hundred million people, but let's ignore that in favor of the good things. The United States can't really experience this form of nationalism, so I guess that may be part of the reason we define it in a different way.

I realize I sound incredibly pretentious and nobody's going to read this post, but it only took me five minutes so I don't give a ****. Hate you all.

 

I read it, DG

And nationalism didn't really start until the 19th century in the German states.

 

Guy, I actually found that quite enlightening. Thanks.

 

As far as I know, worshiping idols before God would be quite offensive/heretical to Christians, Jews, and Muslims (to list a few).

Personally, I think idol worship regardless of religious affiliation can often go overboard. To worship may be an action completely unrelated to a "sacred" object, however, I believe anything done in excess tends not to be a wise choice (there may be exceptions and this is again, only my own belief). I believe one can be reverent without being worshipful.

I believe Jesus Christ is Lord, yet I constantly make idols of all sorts of things. It's a difficult practice to remember to keep God first, however, I don't think it's harmful to hold at least some reverence for people and the country. I think many people will resist showing any respect for symbols that are remotely nationalistic in appearance (referring to American Flag for instance) because they would rather not risk falling into the trap of idol worship.

 

You don't sound pretentious to me. You're claims don't really seem self-indulgent or excessive. Thanks for offering your understanding of nationalism.

Is this just information you happen to know or do you have a source to back this up--one you could specify?

 

The unifications of Germany and Italy in the 19th century are classic examples of nationalism. In fact, I remember a few history textbooks putting those events under sections entitled "nationalism" or something to that effect.

 

"In my day it was King first and God 2nd."

 

But isn't it illegal (or worthy of prosecution) if you burn the flag in protest? And if it's not an idol but merely a symbol, why must it be burned if it touches the ground (also as a way of disposal if need be)? I totally see the point you are making, but it just seems like flag-honor skirts pretty damn close to idol worship.