PT Prequel Inconsistencies with the Originals

One of my biggest gripes with the Prequel Trilogy is it is inconsistent to the Originals. My list follows:
1. Obi-Wan and Anakin were friends. Apparently they weren't.
2. "For over 1,000 generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic." Or was it 1,000 years.
3. Yoda trained Obi-Wan in the Originals, Qui-Gon trained Obi-Wan in the prequels.
4. "Size, matters not," unless of course, you're using a lightsaber.
5. "Never use the force for attack, just defense" says Yoda. Unless, of course, you hurl huge senate pods at a man.
6. Luke remembers Dagobah in the Orignials, not so much in the Prequels.
7. Vader was seduced by the Dark Side. Oh wait, never mind, he was tricked.
8. He was a good man who murdered Sand People, a Defenseless Prisoner, extermely moody, and killed younglings 1 minute after turning to the Dark Side.
9. "When I first knew him, your father was already a great pilot. Wait, you didn't see him pilot until 10 years after you met him, right?
10. "I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi." No, you just did what Qui-Gon told you.
11. He thought he could instruct him as well as Master Yoda. He did, Yoda's apprentice fell to the Dark Side too.
12. Leia remembers her mother a minute after child birth. Yeah, no.
Anyway IMO, these are glaring plot inconsistencies. What do you guys think of it. (This is not a troll thread, this is just for disscusing inconsistencies between the PT and the OT. The above is my opinion on the topic.)

 

1. They were friends, watch ROTS.
2. In this instance we don't know what Obi-Wan was specifying a 'generation' as. For all we know, he could have meant years.
3. Yoda trained Obi-Wan when he was younger like all the Younglings were. It wouldn't make sense to bring up Qui-Gon in the conversation since Luke has no clue who he is.
4. That quote doesn't relate at all to using weapons.
5. Yeah, a man who happens to be an evil Emperor and a Sith Lord who in a matter of hours has basically destroyed the Jedi Order.
6. Why would Luke know anything about Dagobah as soon as he was born? Luke was never on Dagobah before, so I don't know why you think he 'remembers' it.
7. He was seduced. He knew what he was doing and why he was doing them when he became a Sith.
8. To Obi-Wan Anakin was a good man before he became a Sith. Obi-Wan never knew about the Tusken slaughter, and Dooku was a Sith, Mace Windu also tried to kill a defenseless Sith. Being moody does not make a person 'not good'.
9. I take it you forgot about the podracing and space battle in TPM?
10. He still took it upon himself to do it, no contradiction there.
11. Obviously here Obi-Wan was talking about Yoda instructing himself.
12. She's Force-sensitive, she might have a brilliant memory. Remember, Padme was the first thing that Leia ever saw, maybe that image simply stuck in her mind. Still not a contradiction as we see the two spend time together, no matter how briefly.

 

2. In this instance we don't know what Obi-Wan was specifying a 'generation' as. For all we know, he could have meant years
----

 

2. "For over 1,000 generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic." Or was it 1,000 years.

The Republic and the Jedi Order don't have to begin at the same time. A lengthy historical dialogue by Obi-wan in ANH explaining the difference wasn't necesssary.


6. Luke remembers Dagobah in the Orignials, not so much in the Prequels.

Luke didn’t remember Dagobah, he felt a sense of familiarity in the force. He may have simply been sensing Obi-wan’s presence.

 

Obi-Wan's been through a lot, we can forgive him for mixing the two words up

 

I prefer the EU approach- "This republic that has stood for a thousand years" (AoTC) is the reformed republic- the "Old Republic" has been through many ups and downs, and at least one reformation, in its time.

 

1. Obi-Wan and Anakin were friends. It's obvious watching the first half of ROTS, especially if you include the deleted scenes on the dvd and blurays.
2. Covered by Iron_Lord.
3. Somewhat agree on the inconsistency here, but Yoda indeed trained Obi-Wan as a youngling. The problem stems from the seperation of the characters "TPM Obi-Wan" and Qui-Gon. It still works though, Obi-Wan is shown to be impressed by Anakin's strength in the force in agreeance with Qui-Gon, and takes it as his duty to train Anakin when Qui-Gon dies.
4. I don't understand your argument here, where is specific size shown to be a hindrance to lightsaber prowess?
5. Part of the PT Jedi's failure here, they alligned themselves with a corrupt Republic and fought a war for it. Luke learns from his mistake (that to be honest Yoda and Obi-Wan are still making in the OT) and rises above it by wisely refusing to kill Vader.
6. Yoda was there when Luke was born. They never implied Luke had been to Dagobah, he is most likely sensing Yoda's presence.
7. He believed a half-truth. Yes, he was partially tricked, but there is still an obvious seduction there that doesn't necessarilly contrast what Obi-Wan and Yoda say about dark side seduction in the OT.
He sells his soul, and is indeed turned by his passion, and a unnatural desire for a power no one should have. Seduced.
8. -"He was a good man who murdered Sand People"... the spark that starts his ultimate downfall.
-"a Defenseless Prisoner"... Did you watch Return of the Jedi? It is strongly implied that this is symbolically a moment that seals his fate as the new appprentice. He is still a good person at this stage.
-"extermely moody"... Are you referring to AOTC? He was still a Padawan. By ROTS (at least in the first half) he has mostly matured in character; "I say patience"..."I have no excuse"..."I'm sorry Master!"..."I've disappointed you."..."The Jedi use their power for good."... etc.
-"and killed younglings 1 minute after turning to the Dark Side"... Again, he sold his soul. He's used the darkside several times by this stage, and (perhaps delusionally) desperately sees this as the only way out.
9. He already piloted podracers regularly.
10. See point 3.
11. As well as Master Yoda trained him.
12. A plothole that can be explained in-universe as force-sensitive enhanced memory, or perhaps visions of Padme through the force. But I agree, an inconsistency here.

 

One of the nice things about the movies, though, is that even if you yourself don't perceive things a certain way, that's unimportant to the storyline. All that matters is that the characters do.

You wouldn't consider someone who saves your life three times in the span of half an hour to be a friend? Okay then...

The Jedi Knights can be older than the current Republic, though, I hope you know. France, for example, is currently on its fifth Republic. And if we were talking about the historical legacy of Catholicism in France, it would greatly outstrip the time that the Republic has existed. Not sure why you're seeing it as an inconsistency.

You've only had one teacher in your entire lifetime? Why can't both Qui-Gon and Yoda have trained Obi-Wan? After all, we see him teaching a class of children. It would make sense for Obi-Wan to get Luke to go see Yoda if he wants him to learn the basics of the Force in such a situation.

Don't really see how this is true. Dooku soundly thumped both Anakin and Obi-Wan in AOTC. Versus Yoda...not such much.

Right...just like Obi-Wan didn't go and confront Vader in ANH. He just passively sat by and did nothing.

Not sure what you mean by this. Why would Luke remember Dagobah in the Prequels -- he's barely in the PT and doesn't have the ability to speak. Plus, the OT makes it clear that Yoda has been watching over Luke and Luke says that Dagobah is like something out of a dream and it feels like they're being watched -- the connection he feels is from Yoda watching out for him.

Sure he was seduced by the Dark Side -- he wanted the power to keep people from dying and the power to control the galaxy. He thought the Dark Side would give him that. That he was deceived does not prevent him from being seduced. The Dark Side is treacherous.

You mean he very understandably lost control after his mother was brutally tortured and raped to death and he followed the orders of his head of state while still feeling deep uncertainties.

Being extremely moody does not mean one can't be a good person, too, you know.

Likewise, the younglings slaughter occurred after he had turned and no one considered him a good man past that point. It also makes more sense for it to occur rapidly -- it forces Anakin to make decisions quickly and without time to think or reflect on the consequence. Instead, it's his desperation and rationalization that is driving him.

Why would Obi-Wan have to have seen Anakin pilot for this to be true? Anakin can pilot a pod and successfully flies into the Battle over Naboo. That's damn impressive if you ask me -- especially for a nine-year-old. He was a child prodigy, his abilities in the Force allowing him the capacity to pilot a craft no other human could at that point. Certainly that alone grants him the moniker "great pilot."

Qui-Gon requested it, but Obi-Wan still had to take it upon himself to train Anakin

define: to take upon oneself

take an interest in; participate
​

assume, accept
​

Obi-Wan assumed and accepted the responsibility of training Anakin, even with reservations from others. That Qui-Gon initially asked him to doesn't change that fact.

Obi-Wan holds Yoda as a better Jedi than himself. Plus, moreover, Yoda's student achieved Mastery which is something Anakin never did. That, and this fits in line with Obi-Wan's character where he accepts more blame onto himself than is strictly his. Don't forget, this is merely Obi-Wan's opinion on the matter and doesn't reflect a definite truth. Just as Obi-Wan was wrong about Anakin being unable to return to the Light, he could easily be wrong about Yoda having been a better teacher for Anakin.

Why not? People in the Star Wars universe can see into the future; why couldn't they see into the past? Yoda himself references this by saying through the Force you can see old friends long gone. It's no more odd than the fact that baby Harry Potter can remember Lord Voldemort's laugh from the night Voldy killed his parents. There's no reason Leia can't remember her mother, especially with the existence of the Force, when others can see the future.

I disagree. In my opinion, none of these are inconsistencies in any way, shape, or form.

 

Maybe you need to watch the movies again.

Yes, they were. As seen in AotC and RotS.

Do you know what Ben is counting as one generation?

As seen in AotC, Yoda trains Younglings, which implies that he trained Obi-Wan as an youngling. The scene was made precisely to show that.

Source? Did Dooku's size matter when dueling Yoda?

Greater good? The whole galaxy was at risk, in case you didn't notice.

What?!

Have you seen RotS? Are you saying that he wasn't seduced by the Dark Side?

And saved a lot of lives, helped those in need, cared about people, etc...

What he did after he turned to the dark side is irrelevant to what Obi-Wan was saying.

No. What he says is true. When Obi-Wan knew Anakin, he was already a great pilot as seen in the podrace.

He could have ignored him, but he didn't. He took upon himself to train him as seen at the end of TPM.

Dooku's fall has nothing to do with Yoda's training. And Yoda trained Jedi for 800 years.

Yeah, Force-sensitivity?

This isn't a matter of opinion. Either they are inconsistencies or not. And as you can see, most of them aren't.

 

As for the "Yoda trained Obi-Wan rather than Qui-Gon" thing, he may have been referring to Yoda's teaching him how to communicate the Force ghosts ("Additional training, I have for you during your stay on Tatooine.")

 

You're being a hypocrite, whenever someone says the prequels are good, you imply it's a fact, if they say their horrible, you say that it is your opinion.

 

Why people always overstate Obi Wan and Anakin's friendship based on OT?

Seriously I don't get it. Yes Obi Wan said they were good friends, and at the same time he lied to Luke about Vader.

 

PT, especially EP I and II has many flaws, but it portrayed Anakin and Obi Wan's relationship perfectly.

 

The only legitimate discrepancies I see here is 1) Qui-Gon training Obiwan and 2) Leia remembering her mother. Chances are, Lucas really hadn't invented Qui-Gon or decided to kill Padme at childbirth yet. But like K'Kruhk pointed out, even those can be easily explained (even if retrospectively).

But all the other stuff? Dude, you're grasping at straws. Half the stuff you said doesn't even make sense. Seriously? Luke remembering Dagobah? Huh? Almost none of those are inconsistencies. Try again.

 

Yoda trained Obi Wan as Youngling, in the movies he never said Yoda was his master.

 

What the...?! I see you avoided my answers, and worse, called me an hypocrite out of nowhere without any evidence to back your claim.

Grow up.

 

If that's the case, then why can't Luke remember Padme? He has the Force too and Obi-wan held him next to her when she died.

 

They're not always super-positive to each other. They bicker and banter, like a lot of friends. Like Han and Luke in the OT, more or less. Only their personal trajectories are in a different path.

Could be that the Jedi were around for a long while before the Old Republic was firmly settled. Could be that Lucas was a little sloppy at the typewriter back in the 70's. No biggie.

This one's worth the inconsistency, for me, thanks to how great a character Qui-Gon is. And yeah, as others have said, Yoda did train Obi-Wan as a youngling, obviously, and remained an important mentor on the council. Plus, as the only other Jedi alive in the galaxy, he's kind of important.

I don't really get this one. Part of Yoda-with-a-lightsaber being so cool is that he's able to trounce people twice his size. Size really doesn't matter if you're packing a lightsaber. Like the revolver of the old west, it's an equalizer.

Well, said man was hurling huge senate pods at Yoda, first. All our little green friend did was catch one, and send it back at him. That counts as defense in my book.

Oh, and remember-- Yoda lost that whole battle with the Emperor. So maybe he's also talking from experience at the futility of combat (although he's also training Luke at this point to go fight Vader and the Emperor himself, when he's ready, so it goes both ways).

I always figured he was sensing Yoda's presence, rather than the planet itself.

You mean they're not the same thing?

I wonder if any Rambo fans split hairs over the heinous stuff that he must've done in Vietnam.

First knew, not first met. So he heard about Anakin in the pod-race, and heard more about him piloting in the battle of Naboo (after he already met him). He doesn't need to be in the passenger seat to appreciate piloting skills.

How are they mutually exclusive? Anyway, he did have to fight the council to get permission to train him, so I think it's a legit claim.

Good point. In that case, the part that we should be complaining about is "I was wrong". Evidently not. Heckuva job, Obi!

Well, you know. The Force. Wibbly wobbly timey wimey.

 

They share different talent of the Force.

 

The Old Republic stood for 25,000 years. EU explanation The 1000 years comment was the last time the government changed. Before the New Sith Wars ended the Senate was weaker than it was. After the Ruusan Reformations the Senate's power was increased and a new form of government was made. Still the Old Republic but different. So 25,000 and 1,000 both work

 

Most, if not all, of these things aren't inconsistencies.

 

Films, not fans. First and last warning.

 

"Generation" is pretty unambiguous in terms of what it means, even if it is not good as an exact measurement. It's the average time it takes for a child to mature and have children of its own. Many would agree 1 year olds generally do not make good parents.

He says "there is something familiar about this place, like something out of a dream" in Emprie. People were expecting Luke to at least pass through as a baby.

It wasn't really a seduction and more of a trick/trap. "Seduction" means charmed, pulled in slowly, enticed. Anakin was sold a bill of goods that if he joined he could save Padme.

Which Obi-Wan didn't see because he was sitting on the ship being a mother hen for the first, and fighting Maul on the planet below for the second...

 

So he sensed it through the Force, that does not mean he came to this planet before.

Actually what Sidious said is right, cheat death is real. Just Anakin wasn't able to control his anger well.

 

Because Luke and Leia are different people?
Instead, Luke felt that there's good in Vader. That's exactly what his mother felt after she had given birth to him and died.
One could think that was done on purpose....

PADME: Obi Wan...There's good in him. I know ... I know there's still ....
LUKE: There is good in him.

Anakin was still a great pilot. You don't need to see something to make it true.

That's the point! People "expected" things based on minimal information. And when their assumptions were proven inaccurate, they saw "inconsitencies" while most of them were just retcons or diverging interpretation of the source material.