Question about Republic Strategy during the Clone War.

"Well if droids could think, there'd be none of us here, would there? "

Why did the Republic concentrate so much of their forces and resources to engaging the CIS droid army in ground battles? Since none of the droids seem to be sentient or can they think for themselves. I mean, according to what was shown onscreen, all the droids were controlled by a centralized control ship. Why not just focus your strategy on knocking out the said control ship, or even better... developing technology to disrupt the transmission ability of the control ship so that destroying every single droid would not be a necessity.

 

A cut sequence in AOTC answered this. During the battle of Geonosis, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Plo Koon, Aayla Secura and some others attempt to shut the droids down in a Trade Federation vessel. However after they flip the switch, the droids only shut down for about 20 seconds before they turn on again and the Jedi learn they do not need a central switch anymore.

But this wasnt explained in the final cuts and thus its somewhat of a mystery given what the audience is told in Episode 1.


EDIT: You can find a rough version of the cut sequence on youtube.

 

But even at the end of ROTS, Palpatine said to shut them down immediately, so that implies they are still under remote control.

DARTH SIDIOUS: Send a message to the ships of the Trade Federation. All droid units must shut down immediately.

DARTH VADER: Very good, My Lord.

 

I'm sure they can command the droids to shut themselves down, just that there isn't a master switch in every battle.

 

Agreed. And, quite often, a ground battle was used as a diversion in The Clone Wars to take defense detail off of whatever ship is overseeing the battle above the planet. Important criminals such as Grevious were quite often on those ships and the clones on the planet below were considered expendable. It was much more important for the Republic to capture a main icon of the Separatist party than to slash up a million droids.

 

Plus, Dooku and Palpatine were conspiring together to prolong the Clone Wars as long as they could. Whenver one side won a decisive victory, the other side would win a battle shortly after.

 

Any strategy discussion of the clone wars has to take into account that the entire war was a sham executed solely to extend Palpatine's time in office so he could gain further power. In this context, months-long ground campaigns and indecisive space battles would be the norm, not the exception.

The Clone Wars comics do a fantastic job of illustrating how the entire thing happened exactly as Sidious wanted it to; one battle that saw the complete destruction of nearly an entire Republic task force was executed solely to ensure that Palpatine's identity would not be revealed by means of a midi-chlorian test.

 

thats the problem.. since the battle of naboo the seps learned that hey, battle droids need not be controlled by a central computer because if that computer gets knocked out.. were screwed! thats why in the models of droids used after the battle of naboo the droids were programmed to work independantly so they couldnt all be destroyed at once

 

oops, double post

 

As Darth Boba accurately surmises, a loss by either side is a win for Palpatine.

In a Republic with no standing army, only the Jedi kept the peace. Strategically, once the Jedi agreed to assume their general duties commanding the Clone army, they became warfighters, not peace keepers, a huge shift in philosophy.

Prolonging the conflict allowed the Chancellor to spread the Jedi Generals thin, keeping them away from Coruscant and spread across the galaxy for long periods of time. With the shroud of the dark side already drawn over the Jedi, diluting the order and preoccupying them with the trivialities of war allowed Palpatine to freely continue his power play virtually unnoticed.

The longer the peace keeping Jedi were focused upon the war, commanding Palpatine's clone army, the more marginalized and weaker the order became -- all while Palpatine gained strength.

Brilliant!!!

 

Thanks for the responses. Switch or no switch, if the droids were still somehow linked by remote control, that still seems like a very exploitable weakness of the CIS army. A weakness that the leaders of the Republic Army never looked to take advantage of.

Yes, I realize that Palpatine is playing both sides, but it doesn't seem like he is actively involved in planning the individual military campaigns. And since the Republic Army Leaders are legitimately trying to win a war, their strategy should still reflect that.

This brings up another question... Why did the Jedi agree to become soldiers/generals in the Republic Army? Mace admits that Jedi are not soldiers, just keepers of the peace. Are they even qualified to lead an army? Sure, they're very handy in a fight but are they trained in the arts of war and in military strategy? A policeman is NOT the same thing as a soldier. And Mace clearly makes that distinction. And are they even needed? It's obvious that the clones already have their own officers who have been specifically grown and trained by the Kaminoans for the leadership roles in the army. It seems unnecessary and even redundant for the Jedi to want to lead them. So, the moment that Yoda shows up with the clone army, all the Jedi should have breathed a huge collective sigh of relief... because now at last, the Republic has in its possession, its very own army. And the Jedi can go back to focusing their efforts on domestic issues... but wait... instead, the complete opposite happens when the clone army shows up! The Jedi start taking control of battalions and leading them into battle. HUH??? This makes no sense at all?!?

Yes, I know that it's Palpatine's plan to use the Jedi as the Republic's generals. But, this must somehow happen logically in the movie. As it plays out in the movie, Palps doesn't even have to ask... the Jedi just start inexplicably jumping for him on their own.

 

Yes, I realize that Palpatine is playing both sides, but it doesn't seem like he is actively involved in planning the individual military campaigns. And since the Republic Army Leaders are legitimately trying to win a war, their strategy should still reflect that.


You're mistaken; it's been established in the EU and, more importantly, ROTS that Palpatine was actively involved-such as suggesting Anakin be the one to go after Grievous. There's numerous EU examples of him planning to have the Seps attack a specific planet for one reason or another, and of covert clone army missions that the Jedi knew nothing about.

 

A very salient and astute observation, JWAC!

Awhile back, I posted a THREAD on this topic that enjoyed a little nice run. In the initial post, there was this . . .

"I was watching 'E! Behind the scene - Revenge of the Sith' PART I on YouTube last night and GL said something I thought was very revealing.

He was talking (about the 6 minutes into the clip) about the fall of Anakin and the rise of Vader specifically, but during his remarks he stated that (paraphrasing) "the Jedi were the peacemakers of the galaxy, not warriors. At the time of TPM they more or less had been galactic ambassadors, convincing others to abide by the decisions of the Republic. By taking on the role of general-warrior during the Clone Wars they quickly fell away from their traditional role in the galaxy and, as a result, became corrupted, becoming something they were not meant to be."

NOTE: that particular 'E - Behind the Scene' clip has disappeared from the web, for whatever reason -- perhaps LucasFilm issues?

Point is, by accepting the non-traditional general-warrior role, the Jedi had a corrupted their traditional peacekeeper roles, and themselves in the process.

Perhaps only in the end, when they returned to the force, did many of them realize that as generals they had been serving and taking orders from a Sith-in-disguise Chancellor of the Republic. D'oh!

 

But yet, it is Obi-wan who eventually goes after Grievous. Mace even quips that Chancellor has no say on the matter. So, for someone who is supposed to be calling the shots, he got shot down pretty easily. I'm sure that as Supreme Chancellor, Palps is free to make suggestions, but we never see him actively participate in any military planning. And there were certainly scenes in ROTS where we could have seen this, if that were the case. Surely, we would've seen him leave the briefing on the outer rim sieges or at least seen him attending the meetings in the Jedi Council, or at least have a scene with him and Jedi planning together in the war room. But we never do. So we must invoke the EU rule here, when the films themselves show us something that contradicts EU, we must go by what the films show us.

Thanks for the link Obi-Chron. I will read it. Sorry if these questions have been discussed to death, but it's been a while since I've been on these boards and it's not the easiest thing to do a search. Oh, and another thing that bothers me about the Jedi being generals in the Republic Army... As George states, it is a huge shift in philosophy to go from peace-keepers to warrior/generals, but this is never reflected in the movies. Take for example, a Jedi's weapon, the lightsaber. It is mostly a defensive weapon. And the Jedi use it primarily because it is not an offensive weapon, which fits into their peace-keeping philosophy and their use of the Force. However, this philosophy MUST change if you are to become generals. The lightsaber is limited not only by its defensive nature, but by the nature of its short-range capabilities. It is stupid to carry such limited weapon if, for example, you are leading an offensive charge. It would be smarter to use a blaster in this scenario. Instead of waiting to deflect enemy fire, you can shoot them before they can shoot you. And being a Jedi with Force-enhanced aim, you'd probably kill more droids in the process. I find it unintentionally funny to see Jedi rushing headlong into battle waving their lightsabers high above their heads waiting to be within enemy range to strike them down! eh...

 

As much as I like the Jedi and the lightsaber as an "elegant weapon", I agree about how lightsaber usage in a battle scene does look kind of silly. "Someone shoot at me so I can deflect your blaster bolt back at you!" In AOTC, two scenes to me are unintentionally funny: the first is the scene where all the Jedi in the Geonosis arena take turns striking poses and igniting their lightsabers, and the second is how they look holding their lightsabers as they rush into battle and a wall of oncoming battle droids. Having said all that, though, having Jedi using blasters would seem... well, "so uncivilized", to quote Obi-Wan. So we're kind of stuck there... which could intentionally or unintentionally support the idea that the Jedi were not meant to be fighting a war ("we are keepers of the peace, not soldiers").

 

That is a very good question. The jedi are not soldiers and they seem not have had any training in military tactics and strategy. So why are they chosen to be Generals? Are there really noone else in the whole of the republic that have some military training?
Would Bruce Lee make a great general, would Jet Li?

Considering the boneheaded tactics the jedi use on Geonosis I am suprised that anyone can entrust them with an army.

Regards
Nordom

 

As far as the Kaminoans knew, the Jedi were the ones who commissioned the army, so that meant the Jedi were automatically considered to be officers by the clone troops.

 

The Jedi were chosen to be the leaders of the clone army for this:


[image=http://www.mercuryrapids.co.uk/sw-ep3-Image5.jpg]


Ten thousand Jedi-the number extant at the start of the clone wars-together is a dire threat to Palpatine's plans. Ten thousand Jedi, each largely by themselves in charge of thousands of clones, is not. It was expressly done to dilute their numbers and leave them vulnerable, and, of course, make sure as many as possible were killed during the clone wars; Palpatine passed the measure in the opening days of the war.


Aside from Palpatine's plans, the Jedi were the only large group of people in the Republic with actual military experience of any sort. From what we're shown in the films, the Republic government was the Senate, the Courts, the Supreme Chancellor, and the Jedi Order. Out of those groups, the Jedi are clearly about as close as it gets to having an army before the clones arrive on the scene.

 

Why would this be so? From what AotC says, someone claming to be Sifo-Dyas comes to Kamino and places an order for a clone army. He also says that he is acting on orders from the senate and that the army is for the Republic.

So really the jedi was just acting as a messenger, acting on orders from the senate and the army was for the republic. If the senator from Aledraan would have come, would they have made people from Alderaan into officers?

Regards
Nordom

 

From what the films show it seems that the republic has no soldiers at all. So what military experience could the jedi have had? They would never be in a position to lead or command armies, or plan strategy or militaRY operations. They jedi would have experience fighting but that is not the same as having military experience.

Also where did all the imperial officers come from? If the republic did not have any military academies and these officers are not clones, then who trained them?

Regards
Nordom

 

See above post.

 

Also where did all the imperial officers come from? If the republic did not have any military academies and these officers are not clones, then who trained them?
The officers only show up at the time of ROTS, but youre right, who were their teachers ? The only thing I can think of is that they were self taught, learning from all the tactical mistakes the Jedi made. And that should have filled many books, heh.

 

To be fair-it's clear that although the central government did not keep a standing military, but it's very obvious that even pacifistic member states like Naboo kept some semblance of a military force. The early Imperial non-clone officers probably came from the member systems of the former Republic.

 

True, the officers we see on screen from Naboo look capable. But remember, their forces got wiped out very quickly by the TF invasion. So, I would question their tactics too. Of course, the successful Gungans could lead the clone army, they look like the smartest of the bunch.

The Jedi archives should have had some info on military tactics, if they were still applicable and if someone bothered to read them.

 

Fine, the Gungans taught them.