Qui-Gon, did he hurt Obi-Wan's feelings?

Okay, I know that is stupid thread title but I don't know how else to put it. In the scene in the council chamber, where Qui-Gon says he will take Anakin as an apprentice, and Obi-Wan shoots him a look. To me that look was one of hurt and confusion and rejection. Although he recovers quickly and backs up Qui-Gon by agreeing he is ready for the trials.

Also, when Qui-Gon dies, he speaks only of Anakin. Don't you think he could have said "Obi-Wan, you're a good kid." Or SOMETHING!

Is it just me? Maybe I'm sensitive because Obi-Wan is my favourite but those scenes have always bugged me. LOL.

So maybe Obi-Wan was a little distant with Anakin because he was a little jealous? Anyone else have a different interpretation?

By the way, when I say Obi-Wan was distant with Anakin, I don't mean to say he was a bad master. I think he was amazing.

 

Well they did have the "you're much wiser than me" discussion already by this point. I think Obi-Wan was initially taken aback like you said, but he recovered. I doubt there was any lingering issue there. Of course it wasn't too much longer and Qui-Gon was dead.

 

"Its Obi-Wans fault, hes jealous. Hes holding me back" - Anakin in AOTC

 

I agree, Qui-gon was quite distant with obi wan and once he'd found "the chosen one" he spent more time concentrating on him. And I noticed that he critised obi wan in the trade federation control ship for being to mindful and thinking about something else "elsewhere, illusive" and so it makes me think that he was just that sort of jedi who'd hurt another Jedis feelings. Hey he isn't the best master, I spose that was there to make Yoda look better, eh?[face_alien_1]

 

Hmmm. I don't remember the discussion you're talking about. I think I will watch the movie tomorrow. If I see this scene you're referring to, and Qui-Gon does in fact give encouraging words to Obi-Wan at some point...okay I will feel slightly comforted. LOL.

 

Doesn't Obi-wan say that same line to Anakin in ROTS? I never really saw the truth in it in either case.

 

maybe he didn't mean it the way he did... maybe he meant he thought that Obi was done with his training that's why he wanted to take Anakin as his padawan?? thoughts?

 

Yes, do you mean when Obi-Wan says something like "you have become a far greater Jedi than I will ever be" or something like that to Anakin? Obi-Wan underrates himself, problem is, everyone else always underrates him too. He is too modest.

 

Yeah...but he should have taken Obi-Wan into his confidence about it first, not make it look like he was just tossing him aside?

 

Yeah, that's what I was referring to.

 

That's cool, I never realized that connection before.

 

Although Qui-Gon felt that Obi-Wan was ready to face the trials, I can still understand why Obi-Wan would feel hurt because of Qui-GOn's decision. It seems logical that part of Qui-Gon's motivation for suggesting that Obi-Wan was ready to face the trials was that he wanted to train Anakin. Though he may have been sincere, it Obi-Wan still felt the sting of rejection.

 

They had the "you are much wiser than I" discussion after the meeting with the Council. It was his last real conversation with Obi-Wan before he died. I think the knew that Obi-Wan was a little bit shocked by what he said in front of the Council. Maybe he had a bad feeling about Darth Maul, realized that he may not live much longer, and wanted to clear the air between Master and Padawan. Qui-Gon seems genuinely proud of Obi-Wan, and is obviously confident in his abilities if he offers him up to the Jedi Trials so quickly. I imagine that he was surprised when Obi-Wan came to console him before he died, he probably assumed that Maul would kill Obi-Wan as well. At least he died knowing that his Padawan had been well prepared!

 

I know in the TPM novelization, there is a longer conversation between Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan while they are waiting for Jar-Jar to return after coming back to Naboo. Qui tells Obi that he forsees that Obi will become a great Jedi Knight, and that he will make Qui proud. I thought that was a really great way to reconnect the father-son sense they had lost since they found Anakin. I'm sure it cleared the air before they prepared for battle.

 

Yes, you're right he must have been very proud knowing that Obi-Wan defeated Maul.

I did get a chance to watch the movie again, and I saw the scene that has been mentioned. Qui-Gon puts his hand on Obi-Wan's shoulder, smiles and says,

"You have been a good apprentice, Obi-Wan, and you're a much wiser man than I am. I foresee you will become a great Jedi Knight."

*sniff*

Okay, I feel better now. I see it wasn't as much of a rejection as I was thinking.

 

I didn't see your post Quasi! I would really like to read the novelization, all of them actually. I like the father-son thing you mentioned and you're right, all was cleared before the battle so I guess it was not necessary to Qui-Gon to speak of it again as he was dying.

It was a touching scene, I don't think we ever see Obi-Wan show so much emotion again, well until the very end of course.

 

The scene is also a nice parallel the scene in which Anakin apologizes to Obi-Wan in ROTS.

 

I think Obiwan worked hard to get QuiGon to accept him as padawan.even as QuiGon was smarting from his experience with his ex-student Xanatos,Yoda got QuiGon to accept Obiwan as his apprentice.So,it looked like Yoda forced Obiwan on QuiGon.In time,QuiGon saw Obiwan's potential.

And remember,Obiwan referred to Anakin as " another pathetic lifeform"? So,initially,he WAS jealous.but all that changed during the course of their time together as Master and Apprentice...until Anakin gave in to the dark side.

 

Obi-Wans modesty is his greates aspect. I personally believe that he had the lowest midichlorian count in the Jediorder, but thats beside the point. Was Obi-Wan hurt by Qui-Gons obsession over Anakin? I'd say yes initially, but Obi seems the kinda guy who doesn't dwell on those types of things for long. Eventually he just forgave his master or forgot about it. Obi-Wan is allways willing to sacrfice himself for others, I don't think he let Qui-Gons obsessions bother him too much. Instead he saw the bigpicture and realised Anakins importance. Perhaps.

 

Obi-Wan in TPM is very by-the-book and duty-bound. I think he feels anger not that Qui-Gon is trying to dump him but that Qui-Gon is trying to violate the Jedi Code again by proposing to have two apprentices and then by abruptly trying to "graduate" Obi-Wan so that Anakin can take his place. Obi-Wan becomes Anakin's master not because he too believes in the prophecy but because he promised to, and he argues with Yoda because he believes he must do all he can to fulfill that promise. At that point I don't believe Obi-Wan has his own opinion about the prophecy, it's more like Qui-Gon believed it and that's good enough for Obi-Wan. Eventually Obi-Wan and Anakin form a bond of their own but Obi-Wan never expresses any certainty that the prophecy is true. It's only after Anakin betrays the Jedi that Obi-Wan realizes, to his own surprise I think, that he did believe in and hope for the prophecy all along, and it only compounds the sense of loss he feels at that moment.

 

Those scenes you point out are definite "ouch" moments, am-pm. As a big Obi-Wan fan, I feel the same way you do about them. But I don't think Qui-Gon personally slighted Obi-Wan... he was just too focused on Anakin, and also too close to Anakin to see the danger. Those were Qui-Gon's big flaws in the whole thing, I think, because Obi-Wan had valid concerns.

While I think Obi-Wan had to be hurt by those, and was at first a little jealous of Anakin, he clearly put that behind him because he's the bigger man. I don't think he's at all jealous of Anakin after the talk with Qui-Gon in the swamp.

But I also think that Qui-Gon's unwitting insults against Obi-Wan there near the end of TPM probably left some long-standing personal scars. All Jedi are supposed to be humble, but Obi-Wan is beyond that, almost self-deprecating and certainly accepting more blame than is due to him. I can't help but think Qui-Gon accidentally added to Obi-Wan's feeling of inferiority. I'm sure Qui-Gon felt bad about this in retrospect.

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

I do think Obi-Wan was hurt by Qui-Gon's focus on Anakin. And I also feel that in TPM, Obi-Wan was less than accepting of him. But keep in mind, Qui-Gon firmly believed he had found THE Chosen One. I'm sure any other Jedi Master would shift his priorities around to cope with this.

I, too, was a bit taken aback by Qui-Gon's final words, or rather, lack thereof concerning Obi-Wan. But he's a Jedi. He probably figured Obi-Wan had controlled his emotions like a good Jedi should.

 

Interesting other people have noticed the same. Some of your posts are making me feel better and others are making me want to cry. LOL.

And poor Obi-Wan did not seem to have much control over his emotions at that moment when Qui-Gon died. He was there crying in despair and Qui-Gon is only thinking of Anakin. That was so sad! (*uh oh, deep breaths, think happy thoughts, think happy thoughts*)


I also wonder if Anakin picked up on that whole vibe of Qui-Gon pushing aside Obi-Wan for him, and if that maybe contributed early to his feelings of superiority over Obi-Wan?

Come to think of it, the next time someone died in his arms was Padme and her last words were about Anakin too. What the heck? Where's the love for Obi-Wan???? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

 

When Qui-Gon says he will take Anakin as his Padawan, the Council reminds him that Obi-Wan is his apprentice.

Qui-Gon says Obi-Wan is ready after that and Obi-Wan steps in and tells them he is ready.

Just before then, when Obi-Wan gives that look, I always had the impression that he was wondering why his master is making a move to tick off the Council again. That feeling, "Not again.

Obi-Wan isn't mad at Qui-Gon for wanting to take Anakin as his apprentice, he's just upset with the fact that Qui-Gon is going against the Council again because he agrees with his master that he is ready to be a Knight.

 

Aww... a lot of these posts are making me sad!

I just got home from watching ROTS for the third time and, in response to am-pm's previous post, of course Padme is going to be talking about Anakin! That was her husband, the father of her child, the man she loved more than life, and the one who betrayed everything she wanted to believe they had. But I was wondering as I watched it if maybe she wasn't saying that to try to assure both of them that there was still some redeming quality of good, that some part of Anakin still lived inside Vader. Maybe as a comfort to Obi-wan, as he felt deep regret and blame for Anakin's turn to the Dark Side, evident when he says "I have failed you Anakin, I have failed you." during their final battle.

And in ANH, Luke loses it when Obi-wan dies! He is ready at that moment to run back to him despite the blaster fire and the menacing form of Darth Vader. Lots of people love Obi-wan, lol.