PT Qui-Gon Jinn: Agent of the Dark Side?

Qui-Gon Jinn was so rebellious he was never allowed to be on the Jedi Council,
“Master if you would just follow The Code, you’d be on The Council” (Obi-Wan, TPM)

Qui-Gon Jinn insisted against the protests of Master Yoda and the Council that Anakin be trained, which was folly and ended up training Vader so he could kill many Jedi at Order 66’s execution.

Qui-Gon in Master & Apprentice speaks against the Jedi Code often, saying “whoever wrote the Jedi Code never had to deal with the Hutts.” (Claudia Gray)

Qui-Gon learned the ‘secret to immortality’ which allows one to resist the Will of The Force in death and become One with it, and instead become a Force Ghost which resembles Sith Spirits who haunt places, objects, and meddle in the realm of the living.

Was Qui-Gon really an agent of the dark side? His insolence, defiance of the Jedi Code, and teaching seasoned Jedi to not become One with The Force but linger as ghosts to meddle in the realm of the living is telling.

 

Interesting theory...

Another part to add to, it would be that Dooku had Qui-Gon as his apprentice...

 

Good point! Dooku was corrupted by the dark side, did he pass any teachings to Qui-Gon?

EDIT: This is going to be featured in Tales of the Jedi. I will be paying close attention.

 

Yet he followed the Jedi way and the will of the Council all the same, and was so respected that the Council listened to him and trusted him with missions and a Padawan who ended up worthy of being on the Council.

Wrong. It was the Council who eventually decided to allow Anakin in. Qui-Gon respected the Council's decision. And Vader was a consequence of Anakin's decisions to ignore his Jedi teachings, not a consequence of any Jedi or their ways.

Seems that it's Claudia Gray who's speaking against the Jedi Code.

"resist the will of the Force"?!

Where does that even come from?

More nonsense. There's no such thing as Sith spirits. Sith don't live after death. By definition they deny and transcendent path. That's why their ways revolve around keeping themselves alive no matter what. To them, death is the end.

 

Sith Spirits are in Season 6 of TCW, with the Spirit if Darth Bane appearing to Yoda:


TCW is canon.

In Legends Sith Spirits direct Exar Kun and Ulic Qel Droma, Freedon Nadd and Marko Ragnos puppeting them.

 

Qui-Gon

- tells Obi-wan to not listen to Yoda and to him instead
- "What are you brainless?" Qui-Gon is rude
- probably taught Obi-Wan the mind trick, basically, mind control
- incredibly nosey and uncouth "who was his father?"
- cold-hearted "I didn't come here to free slaves"
- power hungry, only becomes interested when he finds the chosen one
- manipulates chance cubes to get his will, he's a Sheev.
- doesn't trust in the force and has to manipulate chance cubes, so his force talk is just that...'all talk'
- argues with the council
- says Obi-Wan is ready for the trials even though this is the first time he has mentioned so, just so he can train the chosen one and mold him to his liking.
- his last words were all about Anakin, not about how proud he was of Obi-Wan

as you can see Qui-Gon is a piece of work, the dark side surrounded him.

the above is parody/satire, just in case the ultra-serious people decide they want to multi-quote me and tell me I'm wrong and don't understand SW.

 

This is gold.

 

It may be more "programmed illusion" - akin to a recording - than "the preserved soul of Lord Bane".

As Yoda says on seeing it:

"An illusion. Real, you are not."

 

But was Yoda right? Why Lord Bane?

 

"Lord" and "Darth" are pretty interchangeable - Sidious addresses Darth Maul as "Lord Maul" on occasion.

 

Oh what I meant waa why did Yoda see Lord Bane?

Indeed Daritha / Darth likely means Lord.

 

Wrong again. The spectre of Darth Bane, like the Sith Knights and the "snake", are illusions manufactured by the Force Priestesses to test Yoda, as stated in the episode:

"Then what stands before you?"
"An illusion. Real you are not."

"All your trials you have faced have been our doing, and you have passed them well."

P.S: "Darth" is a Sith forename, "Lord" is their title. They don't mean the same thing.

 

Nobody ever says "Lord Darth Sidious" or "Lord Darth Maul" - only "Lord Maul/Darth Maul" or "Lord Sidious/Darth Sidious".

 

Yes, that's what usually happens with titles.

 

"Senator Padme Amidala" is regularly heard in TCW though.

or "Master Obi-Wan Kenobi".

Title plus full name is quite commonly used . If Darth was truly a name and not a title, we'd be seeing some "Lord Darth Sidious" from, for example, Dooku.

 

Titles with last name is what's common, not with the full name, which can be used but is more rare. And this is true both in the real world and in the fictional world of Star Wars.

Also, Darth is indeed truly a name, not a title. The guy who invented the name "Darth" said so. And we don't need to see "Lord Darth Sidious" for that to be true.

 

The canon page for "Darth" says otherwise:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Darth

Darth was a title that preceded the moniker of a Sith Lord. Predating the history of the Rule of Two, it was used by ancient Sith such as Darth Atrius, Darth Caldoth, and Darth Noctyss. The Darth title was preserved through Darth Bane's reforms, spawning a thousand-year lineage that included Darth Zannah and Darth Plagueis. Darth Sidious was the culmination of generations of Sith leading to the rise of the Galactic Empire. As a Sith Master, Sidious bestowed the title of Darth on his three successive Sith apprentices: Darth Maul, Darth Tyranus, and Darth Vader.

Overview

"Darth" was a Sith title borne by the Sith Lords who harnessed the dark side of the Force throughout their galaxy-wide conflict with the light-affiliated Jedi Knights.[3] The title, which roughly translated to "Dark Lord,"[5] preceded a moniker that replaced the Sith Lord's original name. The Sith names of Sheev Palpatine, Count Dooku, and Anakin Skywalker were Darth Sidious, Darth Tyranus, and Darth Vader, respectively.[3] In at least two cases, the Darth title and the accompanying moniker were bestowed on the Sith apprentice by the Sith Master.[6]

 

Okay, so what? I'm supposed to disregard the guy who actually invented the word "Darth" because a fan wiki says something else?

 

When ANH was first written it might have been "just a name" but after every single Sith Lucas invented turned out to be "Darth" it became more of a title than a name.

When exactly did Lucas say "It's not a title, it's a name". What was the exact wording, in what source?

 

That’s Yoda’s belief, but Yoda has been wrong “about many things.”

Daritha or Darth:

“It may be as simple as a contraction of "Dark Lord of the Sith." Alternatively, it may be derived from Daritha, the word for "Emperor" in the language of the Rakata, a humanoid species who controlled a powerful empire thousands of years before the Galactic Republic,” and “The title, which roughly translated to "Dark Lord,"[5] preceded a moniker that replaced the Sith Lord's original name.” (Darth, Wookieepedia)

Oh but let me guess.. legends doesn’t count right?

 

Can't be.

Force Ghosting is (one of) the purest lightside technique(s). So much that you need to purify your entire being and let go of everything.



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Ahem Darth Marr say “what?!”

 

For a Revenge of the Sith example of the Jedi immediately concluding "Sith, therefore Darth" - there's the recording:


Palpatine: You have done well, my new apprentice. Now, Lord Vader ... go and bring peace to the Empire.
Obi-Wan: I can't watch any more.
Yoda: Destroy the Sith we must.
Obi-Wan: Send me to kill the emperor. I will not kill Anakin.
Yoda: To fight this Lord Sidious, strong enough you are not.
Obi-Wan: He is like my brother. I cannot do it.
Yoda: Twisted by the dark side young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader.


Yoda only needs to hear "Lord Vader" to treat Anakin as "Darth Vader".

 

No, it didn't. It has always been a Sith forename, hence why all of them are named Darth. The title of the Sith is "Lord". They are Sith Lords.

In the script of Attack of the Clones, in a version where the Jango mentions Darth Tyranus, as opposed to just Tyranus. Yoda mentions that Darth is the forename of the Sith, which was an immediate giveaway.

No, it's a fact. The Priestesses admitted as much, and it's because Yoda is right that he managed to pass the test.

Do you realize that what you quoted is self-admitted speculation right from the way it is written, right? An no, Legends doesn't count, specially when we have the original source of the word saying what it is.

You're corroborating what I've been saying from the start: Darth is the Sith forename. Lord is the title. A title is not a name.

 

How I understand it:

Title: Lord

clan name: Darth

or a real-world example: Native Americans

Title: Chief

Tribe: Sioux

so,

Chief Fire Lightning of The Sioux

Lord of Sith Darth Vader

or

Darth is a personal name like Lord Dandelo Vader or Lord Dandelo Tyranus (as if they are honoring someone who had that name)

the name Darth means you have been accepted into the 'tribe' of Sith.

It is confusing though, considering Darth and Lord are seemingly interchangeable. Especially with Palpatine calling Vader Lord one minute and Darth the next.