Qui-Gon's Funeral Music: The Piece That Binds The PT Together?

Hi guys, please lock and redirect if this has been discussed before.

I was watching TPM the other night, and I was struck by the music during Qui-Gon's funeral. I actually got tears in my eyes for the first time ever during this scene, but not because of what had happened to Qui-Gon, but straight the way it brought me back to ROTS and Padme's death, along with the birth of Darth Vader. It's like that piece of music now cast's a shadow over the entire PT, and the music is not only sorrowful for the death of Qui-Gon, but also for the future fate of both little Anakin (who has now started his path towards evil) and young Amidala, who will pay the ultimate price for falling in love. It's like the gods themselves are crying out because they know where our hero's will end up.

The fact that the music is reprised for the "deaths" of both Anakin and Padme in ROTS, to me, means that Qui-Gon's Funeral music is actually the piece that binds the entire PT together. It's a piece of music that now resonates in TPM, because we know where and why this music will appear again, and it also resonates in ROTS, because it takes us back to a time when both Anakin and Padme were young and innocent. The sad and sorrowful nature of the music has new meanings in the context of BOTH movies, but especially for me, TPM.

Has anyone else noticed how much more powerful the music during Qui-Gon's funeral has become after seeing ROTS?

 

Yes, I feel the same way. There is a sense of hopelessness in it. It totally binds the PT together as you said, G-Fett.

 

Yes, hopelessness is a great way to describe it, actually. It's like we get to Qui-Gon's funeral, and we hear this music, and it's like everything is now hopeless - The duel of the fates has been fought, and everyone's fates have been decided, and the gods are crying out for the lives that are going to be torn apart.

 

yep, there's definitely a link there. I'm surprised no one has menioned rotj in this thread though. i look at the endings of these 3 movies as a kind of parabola, ya know?

ep1:
"He will bring balance, train him." -(then)- Qui-gon dies in Obi-Wan's arms -(then)- Qui-Gon's CREMATION
ep3:
"...not join them. Bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness." -(then)- Anakin's IMMOLATION -(then)- "Anakin's death" (the nooo scene)
ep6:
Anakin brings balance -(then)- Anakin dies in Luke's arms -(then)- Vader suit CREMATION

The choice of fire in all 3 scenes is by no means accidental

 

I think that piece would go wonderfully during Anakin's funeral in ROTJ.

 

ow, i just made a nasty observation reading my post. the difference in ROTS, when compared to TPM and ROTJ, is that in the episode 3 fire scene the character is almost "cremated alive". Just that thought gives the scene an impact Lucas probably aimed for. lol

 

Jango10, I DON'T think this music should be put into Anakin's funeral at the end of ROTJ. The reason, is that for me, this music has a profound sense of hopelessness and loss. A sense of darkness and tragedy. The point about Anakin/Vader's death, is that it's actually a positive thing. It's sad, but it's also positive, peaceful and spiritual. There is a sense that although Anakin has died, he is also free and at peace. Evil has been destroyed and balance has been returned to the force - The Jedi have returned and The Force Theme remains perfect for this final funeral, IMO.

 

It's like that piece of music now cast's a shadow over the entire PT, and the music is not only sorrowful for the death of Qui-Gon, but also for the future fate of both little Anakin (who has now started his path towards evil) and young Amidala, who will pay the ultimate price for falling in love. It's like the gods themselves are crying out because they know where our hero's will end up.

Although some people have dismissed the use of this particular track of music during the montage of Padme's funeral and Vader's birth as being evidence of laziness on the part of Lucas and his collaborators, I am willing to concede your point in this instance. Lucas has already indicated that the films themselves are based on musical arrangements (he apparently used a piece of classical music, the name of which escapes me, as the hypothetical foundation onto which the plot structure for "Attack of the Clones" was built - this is not entirely uncommon amongst writers, as Paul Thomas Anderson claims to have structured his film "Magnolia" on the Beatles' "White" album), so a revelation which sits in accord with the one you have suggested, G-FETT, is not implausible. The above parallel between "The Phantom Menace" and "Revenge of the Sith" would then yield a rather obvious connotation from the oft-cited "musical" analogy (a "lyrical" reprise marked not only by imagery, but by music, of all things), but the degree of emotional resonance it suggests is actually quite potent; now, being able to observe the saga in its entirety, scenes which might otherwise have appeared completely independent have now developed an additional layer of meaning. The funereal passage in "Menace" which contains Qui-Gon's pyre, has now adopted an intriguing level of foreshadowing, which itself appears to anticipate a certain degree of pathos that will ultimately color all of the events which preceded it. There is a large amount of very calculated tonal and visionary manipulation which occurs over the trajectory of these pictures, and its effectiveness (for me) indicates that the filmmaker's plotting transcends its more technical origins; it may not be "correct" in a manner that adheres to the sort of absolute coherence that has been widely demanded, but the more difficult task of creating a synthesis of abstract closure has been attained without interference. In other words, through a deliberate series of orchestrations, Lucas makes his cinematic "refrains" work on an emotional plane, one which serves to enrich his grand opus.

I DON'T think this music should be put into Anakin's funeral at the end of ROTJ. The reason, is that for me, this music has a profound sense of hopelessness and loss. A sense of darkness and tragedy. The point about Anakin/Vader's death, is that it's actually a positive thing. It's sad, but it's also positive, peaceful and spiritual. There is a sense that although Anakin has died, he is also free and at peace. Evil has been destroyed and balance has been returned to the force - The Jedi have returned and The Force Theme remains perfect for this final funeral, IMO.

I agree. While there is a visual symmetry between the respective funereal images seen in both "Menace" and "Return of the Jedi," that connection suggests Anakin's ultimate redemption, which should indicate closure, not finality. Just as we have previously observed the manner in which a highly-esteemed Jedi (Qui-Gon) has been honored through cremation, the subsequent "resurrection" of this ritual (in "Jedi") allows the audience to understand the deep significance and sense of resolution within both Anakin, and that which he represents to Luke, his son. In that way, the conclusion of "Jedi" implies a sense of forgiveness and redemption within the saga's principal characters. Anakin's spirit has been extricated from the towering, ambulatory life-support system which appeared to be a manifestation of not only his (literal and figurative) loss of humanity, but the unfortunate result of a Faustian covenant that offered him nothing, yet for which he sti

 

I could not agree more, G. Oh and great thread!

 

Thanks Strilo! I was so struck by how this music affected me when I was watching TPM, that I just had to create a thread about it - If there was one piece of music from TPM, that I would have thought would have affected me in ROTS, it would have been Duel of the Fates (and indeed DOTF was used effectively) but never in my wildest dreams did I expect "Qui-Gon's Funeral" to be reprised so effectively and powerfully.

Tyrannus_The_Hutt, that was a fantastic post! I wish I could have wrote my opening message as well as you wrote that!

 

Yes,I absolutely love this piece of music too.I think it's a great way to have a link between the endings of episode 1 and 3.And I really can't believe that some people would actually complain about this!!
One of the most toutching moments in RotS(or the whole saga actually)for me is when we see the shiny new Darth Vader suit being raised on the operating table just after Padme has said her last words "There is still good in him..." and we hear that music again.I really can't imagine any other music for that scene.
Apparantely some people will complain about everything

 

Hi G-FETT! Great thread! Good to see you here!

I would agree with you about this piece of music conveying hopelessness and fatalism, if it were not for the lyrics. See, in TPM, the lyrics, "kora rata swepna" and "madhura swepna" are so beautiful - they say "go on dreaming" and "sweet dreams". That conveys a peaceful, restful union with the Force, and life hereafter, for Qui-Gon. Why use those same lyrics for Vader's birth, which will be anything but "sweet" dreams?

I wish the lyrics were left out of RotS, only the music used. That would certainly tie into TPM and Qui-Gon's death - and how events and fate were sealed that long ago for all three of our main characters. Qui-Gon brought them together - Anakin, Obi-Wan, Padme - in TPM, and each had a tragic destiny brought about by their association with each other.

 

Great thoughts G-Fett, i'll pay more attention to that music next time I watch TPM.

 

Hi F_J. I'm enjoying posting here, actually, it's a fun little forum.

I never knew what the voices were actually saying, and I doubt many people do know whats being sung, so I would ask, does it really matter? The main thing is the feeling and emotion that the music conveys, isn't it?

 

I never knew what the voices were actually saying, and I doubt many people do know whats being sung, so I would ask, does it really matter? The main thing is the feeling and emotion that the music conveys, isn't it?

Ah, G-F, so you are saying that I should ignore yet another small point set up in TPM/AotC, in order to enhance my enjoyment of RotS? Agreed! That was my reaction on my first viewing of RotS - it is a much better film if I ignore tons of small and big details set up in the first two!

However, to be honest, I never thought that Qui-Gon's funeral music (even without the actual lyrics) in TPM was hopeless. More like noble but mournful, a sad goodbye, yet uplifting.

 

Y'know...

I was listening to the audio commentary for the upcoming Revenge of the Sith DVD and this music... overwhelmed me. I found it utterly devestating just LISTENING to Vader's "Force Rage" after he loses all control at Padme's death. It is, simply put, a brilliant piece of filmmaking. But it isn't just the music that conspires to make it so: the foley work is utterly superb, too - the reverb added to every crunch and crashing sound makes all the difference. When the funeral music swells up at this point, it truly is a moment of profundity; it's elegiac, operatic and even, dare I say, transcendental. For me, this moment is arguably the most compelling in the entire prequel trilogy. Few films carry this level of visceral, emotional power.

When you contrast the colourful hijinks of Episode I with this, then it shows you how great the trajectory of Lucas' narrative is and how clever a filmmaker, for all his failings, George Lucas really is. I really cannot say enough. My trite wording is pitifully insufficient to convey how I truly feel. I'm stopping here.

 

I wouldn't mind if Qui'Gon's funeral music was added to ROTJ when Luke cremates Vader.

 

You know, I'm a fan of all Star Wars music. I'm not even interested in classical (in the way it's used), but it's always held a special place in me. I have to agree that Qui-Gon's funeral music was great, and would fit in perfectly in other places in not only the PT, but the OT as well. Excellent thread.

 

Excellent observations G-FETT and I agree that while the music always was particulary sad in my eyes, it really has been given a darker tone after being used in ROTS. Where I was only mourning the death of a great Jedi, I know think ahead to it signifying devastation of the whole Order.

 

Perhaps I have this ass backwards but the theme has always struck me as having a medieval quality to it. I found this really appropriate considering the purpose it was written for: to elevate the death of Qui Gon, a character who naturally had a kind of Arthurian grandeur to him and was laid to rest on a funeral pyre. Since it was contextualised in The Phantom Meance in this way, that it was then deployed to heighten the tragedy of Anakin imbues Revenge of the Sith with a medieval quality of its own. Again, this seems highly appropriate: goodness has practically dried up and a new "Dark Age" has begun.

 

Just a note: This music also is used in a different arrangement during Padmé's funeral scene.

 

That this music was used when Vader is lifted on the table in his new "tomb" is genius. It really makes that scene powerful.

 

That's the second closest I've ever come to shedding a tear during a film. (The closest was Grave of the Fireflies)

I guess I'd always expected Vader's birth and first appearance to accompanied by the Imperial March. But the pice really struck home the point that Anakin was dead, replaced by Vader. It also accentuated Qui-Gon's funeral, where Obi-Wan promises Anakin he would become a Jedi. Then throw in Padme's funeral, along with the Japor Snippet, Anakin's promise that it would keep her safe. Yet he couldn't save her from himself.

And to hear the Emperor tell Vader that it was his anger that killed her, when it was the Emperor who twisted Anakin's mind and manipulated him, pulling his strings like a puppet master.

It was such a tragic scene and much more heart-wrenching that I could have ever imagined. And The music seemed to perfectly express the grief, trajedy, hopelessness and despair. It's amazing how profoundly one piece of music can move our emotions.

 

Exactly, DM. You weren't expecting that music with Vader's birth, you were expecting the angry Imperial March. Instead you got Anakin's Death Hymnal. And it did tie back with Qui-Gon's funeral and the death of Anakin and Padme. It was also Anakin's "funeral". Everyone I've talked to has said this about that scene and music selection.

 

I was watching TPM the other night, and I was struck by the music during Qui-Gon's funeral. I actually got tears in my eyes for the first time ever during this scene, but not because of what had happened to Qui-Gon, but straight the way it brought me back to ROTS and Padme's death, along with the birth of Darth Vader. It's like that piece of music now cast's a shadow over the entire PT, and the music is not only sorrowful for the death of Qui-Gon, but also for the future fate of both little Anakin (who has now started his path towards evil) and young Amidala, who will pay the ultimate price for falling in love. It's like the gods themselves are crying out because they know where our hero's will end up.

The fact that the music is reprised for the "deaths" of both Anakin and Padme in ROTS, to me, means that Qui-Gon's Funeral music is actually the piece that binds the entire PT together. It's a piece of music that now resonates in TPM, because we know where and why this music will appear again, and it also resonates in ROTS, because it takes us back to a time when both Anakin and Padme were young and innocent. The sad and sorrowful nature of the music has new meanings in the context of BOTH movies, but especially for me, TPM.

Has anyone else noticed how much more powerful the music during Qui-Gon's funeral has become after seeing ROTS?


Just want to say...

Awesome thread!

I agree with everything you said. I watched TPM again a while back, and there are many scenes in TPM now that seem greater because of ROTS including the funeral scene.