ST Rose Tico/Kelly Marie Tran Discussion Thread

So for those that didn’t like TLJ do you think it was fair to sideline this character so much?

 

I don't mind Rose. I'm a little indifferent about how much she was used in TROS. The film was so busy there was a lot of stuff I wished they had done that we missed out on, so it is hard to say.

It wasn't a problem for me, but maybe she should have been used more.

 

I didn’t like her character in TLJ but they could have evolved her in TROS instead of sidelining her.

 

I didn't like her character in TLJ, but I liked what we saw of her in TROS and would have liked more. The fact she's a mechanic is kind of ignored by both Rian and JJ. Her being a mechanic doesn't really do anything for the plot, which probably explains why JJ didn't know what to do with her. It's a pity, as Kelly is wonderful.

 

Rose had more screen time than Luke and Lando. So she was not sidelined in TROS, she was just no longer part of the main narrative.

On TLJ her task was to transform Finn from caring only about his friends and himself, to a real rebel that cared about the cause, the war.

Once Finn had gone through this transformation, there was no longer any significant task left for the Rose character.

 

Yay, I found a place to put this. I was going to post it on my FB, but I felt like posting it here would be better. This is basically just a rant of all my feelings about Rose Tico.

What set it off was seeing this website post. https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/26...UEBI_-qj2bsv623dzDJXaczGgWv7ClYyXvCa1zaYlEp7A

Which talks about how Rose only had 76 seconds of screen time in TROS, and how she was done horribly wrong by this. She apparently had 11 minutes in TLJ. I personally didn't mind that Rose got shafted in TROS, although I found myself liking her more during the 76 seconds we did see her than I did in TLJ. And really, I don't think that including her more in TROS would have hurt anything. And it was pretty unfair that everyone else got to go on the adventure but she didn't.

I still don't like Rose Tico, but thinking more deeply on the subject, I don't think I really have a problem with Rose's character in TLJ, so much as I have a problem with the writing. For me, all of the negative feelings I feel stem entirely from the one scene where Finn is trying to protect Rey by getting away from the resistance, so that she returns to a safer place.
And then Rose comes along with her taser, tases him (for the audience's amusement) and drags him off to the brig (again for the audience's amusement). This is just one of the myriad ways Finn's character was done wrong. Read all about in the Finn threads!

But it's not even what upsets me the most about it. The biggest problem I have with it is the idea of conscription. Finn was already forcibly conscripted into the First Order army to fight and die for someone else's ideals. In TFA he is brave enough to run away, and sadly ends up again in a situation where he has apparently been forcibly conscripted in TLJ into the resistance.

If Finn's agency has again been taken away from him and he has no choice whether or not he wants to live or die, then how is the resistance any different than the first order?

I just really hate the idea of people being forced to fight and die against their free will. Even if the conscriptors believe it's for a good cause.

This is why I loathed Ned Stark of GOT fame from the very beginning

Spoiler

because that's how we first meet him. Chopping off the head of a teenage boy because the kid didn't want to die. Yeah, yeah, he took an oath, and that's how the law dealt with oathbreakers, but he was a scared kid who didn't want to die. And Ned just acted so self-righteous about the whole thing. I hated all the Starks, really, but this isn't the board for that.

And with Rose, I just don't know. Was it her idea to not let anyone leave cos her sister died, so she thinks everyone else should have to die, too? Or was this an order given to her by General Organa? If Rose was following orders that's one thing, but if she was doing it on her own then that almost puts her right up there in Ned Stark territory. And if those were General Organa's orders - WTF dark mirror Leia?I don't remember Han being forcibly conscripted into the rebel alliance. He was free to go, but came back because he chose to!

And for me, story and morality trumps the ethnicity of the character. I think it sucks that the first Female leading Asian American character was given such a smitty role in such a smitty trilogy with such smitty writing. (I couldn't remember if the hit with an s word was allowed or not.)

Now if Rose's character was written to be a villain or written to be a really complex gray character, and Finn's character was given agency and better writing, and not just played for laughs, then I'd prolly love her character. It's really more when characters who I'm told are good and moral do immoral things and then act all self-righteous about it, that I have an issue. If the character is shown as flawed, then their immoral actions are character depth and can be a lot of fun.

Rose does come off as a very flawed character with a strong personality who likes to force herself and her ideals onto everyone else. But then the entire trilogy has an attitude problem of people not caring about the agency of other characters.

Like how Kylo doesn't care what Rey wants, and forces himself on her. Rose basically does the same thing to Finn. She attacks him to keep him from leaving because he isn't allowed the choice. And then later she doesn't respect Finn enough to let him choose to do something heroic and die (when earlier he wasn't allowed to leave to try and not die) cos she wuvs him now apparently, and then she kisses him without asking or caring if he wants to kiss her back. From the shocked look on his face - he did not!

So yeah, it's the writing that I hate. The characters are just collateral damage, I think. RIP all the ST characters.

 

The novelization is explicit that Rose was under orders.

I think the idea is - nobody's conscripted, but resignation is different from deserting - and deserting in escape pods hurts everybody who does not desert, but needs to use escape pods later - perhaps the ship's been hit by First Order fire.

 

I think Rose's sidelining in TROS was more an unfortunate circumstance of having so much story to wrap up, as well as the overstuffed plotting of the first half. But yes, I absolutely wish she was in the film more, and was with the main three for journey. If it's any consolation though, only Rey and Kylo have character arcs in TROS. Everyone else just gets added texture, but not actual development.

 

Thanks! I couldn't force myself through the novel. I tried twice. In the movie they could have had Leia show up and comfort the weeping Rose for a few seconds before having her say something like she knows everyone is really scared, and that some might be tempted to abandon ship, and under better circumstances she would let them, but right then they needed those life pods and couldn't spare any for single use deserters, and then handed Rose the taser and told her to use it if she had to. But they didn't have time for all that, I guess. I would have felt better about it though. And then if they didn't use the scene to demean Finn I would have felt even better about it. But oh well. At least I got all my feelings out.

 

I don't think Rose should have gone on the adventure with the trio, as she has not been there since the beginning. BUT I do think she absolutely should have had more to do back at the base. Both her and Connix. A lot of people are going on about the lack of Rose, but I find the lack of Connix just as annoying. Connix has been there since TFA, she's played by Carrie Fisher's daughter and she also had boosted screentime in TLJ. But I'd say she has even less than Rose does in TROS. Both Connix and Rose should have been given meaningful roles with the Resistance. I think the needing to tie up all the various character arcs and storylines really hurt Rose and Connix and it's a pity.

 

I like TLJ but Rose story was one of only few thing I really didnt care, so for me sidelining her character in TROS was perfect solution.
I dont want to see more of her in future SW.

 

I just watched TROS again last night and even though her screen time is short it’s pretty well-timed throughout so it feels like she’s around more than the screen time would suggest.

I have some ideas about how she could have been better incorporated and given a better moment but she feels like part of the Resistance crew who wins and it turns out she has roughly twice as much screen time as that 79 second rumor suggested.

Mace Windu in ROTS, for example, has only 2 minutes more screen time in total than her in TROS but because you see both at times throughout their presence is felt more than the low running times would suggest.

 

Liked Kelly a lot, didn’t care much for Rose. Rian can keep tweeting pictures of KMT on the red carpet for the premiere of ROTS, but what he should have really done was provide her with a script that made fans fall in love with her. Instead his writing for her role was lazy and subpar. She could have been the most sympathetic person in TLJ but she too often came across as a nag who lectured Finn.


It’s a shame she got such little time in ROTS but a lot of characters, even lead ones, were done a disservice in the film apparently. In my opinion Rose was only created as a consolation prize for Finn as a romantic interest, allowing Rian cover to go ahead with his plan of finding a more “appropriate” love interest for Rey in Kylo (or possibly Poe). Don’t get me started. Anyway one of the good things JJ did was not allowing Finn to be stuck in a relationship that Rian had thought up but had no real interest in fleshing out. Of course that made Rose a casualty so far as screen time is concerned. Maybe Rian could have created a more dynamic character when creating her in the first place. Maybe he could have kept his original idea of Finn being part of Rose’s sister’s crew, giving him and Rose a stronger foundation and more natural bond after her sister died. But he kept making the wrong choices with his characters as far as I’m concerned. Its telling that none of his creations, including the Porgs, look to have any true staying power within the fandom. ESB gave us Yoda, Lando, Boba Fettt. What did TLJ gives us? Even Canto Bight was one hundred times less interesting than Cloud City.

 

No. In fact I was hoping they would have improved the character and use her more effectively. But they took the easy way out and simply pushed her aside. That in itself is a disappointment

 

I enjoyed TLJ for the most part however if the reports that most of her scenes were with unused Carrie footage and that it didn't come across right on the screen for whatever reason, then I am okay with her lack of appearance. However, if we do learn that the narrative was false, then the writers did her a great disservice as she was one of the redeemable qualities about TLJ in my opinion.

 

I was ok with her being sidelined in TROS. Nothing against the actress, but the role wasn't that interesting to begin with. I think she should have died in TLJ.

 

Yes it would have been better that sidelining for sure. Rose was obviously supposed to be major character at first but because of backlash they cut down her part. Jannah now replaced her kind of, and because scenes with Lando mentioning his daughter were edited out, Jannah is another poorly used female character (along with Zorii Bliss).

 

Kelly will be at the Oscars!

 

I liked her a lot in TLJ. I like TROS the best of the ST, but was a bit disappointed she wasn’t in it that much. The Treverrow script had her in it w lot more and maybe that would have been a good thing if Treverrow has stayed on board. Don’t know.

 

Rose was never more important than DJ. Not much anyway. She's a foil to Finn so that he has a clear choice between cynicism and idealism now that he's away from the First Order. She is a supporting character and has an important role in the resistance analyzing the new star destroyers. She found the weakness and contributed to their success. A little more Rose might have been nice but she wasn't developed that far in the first place--we know who she is, how she is motivated and her only growth was in a little bit of confidence and self-expression. Fans can imagine further adventures for her and she will probably have interesting adventures in other media.

 

I think Tran's performance as Rose was fine. She did exactly what she was told. You could compare the situation to how Jake Lloyd was unfairly bashed for his portrayal of young Anakin. George Lucas did not portray the kid well. Rian Johnson did not portray Rose's character well. Plain and simple. But Jake Lloyd should not have been bullied all of his life for his acting. Similarly, Kelly Marie Tran should not have been bullied for her performance. She received death threats from incels. I consider those threats terroristic. So, yeah. I was really disgusted by how certain fans bullied a then-child (Lloyd) and then an adult actor simply for reading the lines as best they could. I'm glad that some fans did not do so. It's okay to dislike the writing, but taking it out on the actors is barbaric.

 

I am with you on most of this. I'm not as hard on Johnson or Lucas, though. Irrespective of that I think long-distance cruelty, as energized by the Internet, has been unspeakably awful in the years since it began in the late 1990s. Internet culture was arguably even more nasty in those days, but I think it has snowballed. It's disgusting how Lloyd, Best, and Portman were treated in their personal lives by people who honestly would never contribute as much as they did to human happiness. But even if they failed, they didn't deserve that kind of treatment and it makes me sick. Tran is only the latest of these victims and it makes me sad that she and Ridley both ended up deactivating some of their social media accounts. Kelly Marie Tran's portrayal was in my opinion very sweet. I wish her character had been a little less preachy, but that's me. She had an important role to play in reinforcing, deepening and broadening Finn's motivation and sense of purpose. She also represents a rank and file member of the resistance who has her own unique nuts and bolts talents, a regular person whose dedication matters. In the end she is the one who finds out how to defeat the destroyers in detail and she also participates in the strike team. So go Rose. I hope the fun and thrill of it all means more to Miss Tran than any of the online nastiness ever did. I wish the best to them all.