PT ROTS : Anakin vs Obi Wan after Padme choke is underrated

I believe there is an interesting mirroring and juxtapositioning with this (see subject ) and ANH choke scene. The order is reversed.

Have a look:



Vader: You're with him! You brought him here to kill me!! [begins to Force-choke Padmé] (Lack of Faith according to Anakin, for Padme to bring Obi Wan)
Chokes Padme
Obi-Wan Kenobi: Let her go, Anakin!
Obi-Wan: Let... her... go. [Vader releases Padmé as Obi Wan says so); (Obi Wan is still like a master of Anakin- Anakin calls him “my master” later)
Vader: You turned her against me!
Obi-Wan: You have done that yourself! (Anakin too proud)
Vader: YOU WILL NOT TAKE HER FROM ME!!
Obi-Wan: Your anger and your lust for power have already done that. You have allowed this Dark Lord to twist your mind, until now...until now, you have become the very thing you swore to destroy. (Anakin’s inability to think properly as a Jedi and fall for the Palpatines strength in the darkside of the Force)
Vader: Don't lecture me, Obi-Wan! I see through the lies of the Jedi! (Sad devotion to the Jedi) I do not fear the Dark Sideas you do! I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire! (the Jedi not strong enough to bring peace to the Republic).

ANH:
Darth Vader:Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
Admiral Motti: Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, orgiven you clairvoyance enough to find the rebels' hidden fort-...(the Force is not strong enough to figure out where the base is)
[Vader makes a pinching motion and Motti starts choking]
Darth Vader: I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Governor Tarkin: Enough of this! Vader, release him! (Tarkin has some mastery over Vader)
Darth Vader: As you wish. (Vader releases Motti after Tarkin says so)

Opinions?


MJ

 

interesting points. First, congratulations to put such effort on the dialogue. So many fans think that it is the weakest part of the movies. I think it is the less important but still very important.
Now, to this “As you wish“. Anakin obeying to the others (even in his Vader persona) is one of most interesting details in the Saga due the fact that he is born as slave, so he will always want to prove himself (to be a real person, to have a free will, etc.). During the PT he avoids to say “AS you wish“. He says: I‘ll do what to want“ and different variations of it, where he is proactive, he decides to agree to do something for the one, etc. As you wish says to me that he is a broken man already, he doesn‘t care about this detail he is ready to obey. Even in the ANH, where this “as you wish“ is full with irony, the real reckless hot-headed Anakin would never say such thing. One more prove that Vader is not the badass that so many viewers think he is.

 

I wonder what would have happened had Anakin not let go of Padme. Would Obi-Wan have just straight up attacked him?

 

He probably would've used the Force to try and separate the two.

 

Thanks for that confidence boost!

I note what you say about Vader as a broken man that's a very good point. It actually brings me to some more things I noticed (and hopefully is a fair assessment), that in the banter between Anakin (now Vader as "knighted" by Sidious), Anakin says "I don't fear the Darkside as you do" also goes back to ANH in the Death Star conference. Vader tells Motti "the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant to the power of the Force". This Force that Vader speaks is the Darkside of the Force in actuality. Vader is still a Force user...but...Motti doesn't realize how powerful it can be, compared to TECHNOLOGY! Yet, yet I repeat, yet it is TECHNOLOGY that keeps Vader ALIVE! Which brings me back to the point that Vader being a broken man. Having the Force yet needs to depend on his suit, to keep him alive to even speak those words of "don't be so proud...technological terror...."!

Even Tarkin, puts down Vader that he is the "Last of that religion". Vader has to be subservient to the Empire and its fear tactic yet Vader isn't afraid of the Darkside. It is of no surprise, that Vader tells Luke "you don't know the POWER of the DARKSIDE!" And if I may Luke asked Yoda if the Darkside is stronger (Yoda immediately says No. That is more seductive and makes one join the wrong side of the Force).


So these are more reasons that Obi Wan Anakin disagreement is underrated.

MJ

 

It's an awesome scene

 

Vader's first Force choke.

 

Um......


Not sure how well the rest holds up, I think it's a bit grasping at straws in many places - however, the scene (and the entire dialogue in the sequence) is "underrated" mainly because only about a 3rd of the lines there are comprised of questionable mumbojumbo like "absolutes" or "pov".

The rest of them are properly dramatic, and flow well, as well..

 

That particular scene in ANH is one of my favorites of the saga lol. However, the last 30 or so mins of RotS is the most emotionally powerful and greatest part of the entire saga imo (although the last 15 - 20 mins of both ESB and RotJ are both excellent as well).

 

And it was on his wife. Whoa, I never made that connection. Lucas is deep and deserves a lot more credit. There is brilliance in the prequels

 

Yep. And Vader keeps on doing it regardless.

 

She was his WIFE!

 

No. Actually she was Anakin's wife. Vader destroyed step by step everything that makes Anakin the person who really is: his loyalty to the Jedi order, the love to his friend and mentor and of course the deep and strong feelings between him and Padme (well, in the end Vader fails in the last one but in that moment he almost succeeded).

 

Yeah, considering Anakin was choking out a stressed out pregnant woman whom Obi-Wan had endangered by using as bait, you figure Obi-Wan would have acted faster to help her rather than stand there and politely ask until Anakin stopped.

 

How exactly did Obi-Wan "use her as bait"? Makes more sense to think of him as using her as unwitting transport - he's clearly sneaking on board her ship before it goes to Mustafar.

 

But he had to have known of the inherent risk of doing that. If Anakin/Vader saw him, he wasn't exactly going to say, "Darling, please stand over here. I've some issues to deal with that man personally." Intended or not, Obi-Wan is partially responsible for her death.

 

He probably hadn't quite expected Anakin to have gone so far off the deep end so quickly. As far as everyone knew, Padme was just about the only one who might still reach Anakin. I don't think anyone would have thought Anakin would already be so far gone as to choke his wife and mother-to-be of his child almost on a whim.

 

Actually, Obi Wan was ready to do 'what he must' if the things are as bad as he expected. He admitted that to Padme during the veranda conversation, that’s why she refused to tell him where is Anakin. So I think also that no matter that Obi Wan didn't want it, he become part of this: the choke, the death of Padme, the creating of Vader.

 

The phrasing 'do what I/he must' suggests that whilst he was prepared to fight Anakin if it came to it, he still wasn't exactly looking to pick a fight. He let Padme try and talk Anakin down and only intervened when it was clear Annie had gone totally cocoa puffs. He was part of it, but it would have been the same if he hadn't turned up. Anakin would still have been Vader (but not the cyborg version), Padme would still be dead because Vader killed her. The real difference would have been Sidious getting his hands on the baby Skywalkers which would probably have ended very badly for the galaxy.

 

Hard to say what would have happened without Obi-Wan though. I agree that she didn't seem to be reaching Anakin.

 

No.

Your logic is very poor, basically the same logic as victim blaming.

Obi-Wan is not responsible for Anakin's actions.

Go ahead and try to explain the logic of:

Obi-Wan being on Padme's ship = Obi-Wan responsible for Anakin choking Padme

How does Obi-Wan being on Padme's ship CAUSE Anakin to choke Padme?

It doesn't. Saying it does, is taking blame off the guilty party and shifting it onto a bystander.

 

How did the choking happen? Anakin saw Obi-Wan and whatever progress Padme might have been making was quickly destroyed, as his mind instantly turned to “Padme brought him here to kill me!!”

Anakin still Force Choked her, yes, but Obi-Wan showing himself made it certain that Anakin wasn't going to listen to Padme anymore and it put her in extreme danger. As evidence by him choking her.

 

Yes... but it was still Anakin's choice to choke her. No matter what Padme said or did, or whatever actions Obi-Wan took or did not take, Anakin was the one who used the force to choke Padme. Obi-Wan's presence may have been what made him angry, but only he decided how to express that anger - and take it out on Padme.

Obi-Wan has absolutely no responsibility for Anakin's choices made of his own free will. Padme's death is completely Anakin's fault, and his alone.

And Obi-Wan may very well have put her in more danger by arriving along side her, but what choice did he have? Anakin was already confirmed to have killed several Jedi and massacred preteen apprentices, he's clearly dangerous and needs to be stopped one way or another. If Padme can take him straight to Anakin then he has to take that chance - and he at least made the offer to her to take him willingly and knowingly before resorting to sneaking aboard.

 

jakobitis89 So the tragic element to Anakin thinking Padme brought Obi-Wan on purpose has no effect on you?