Sensing droids through the Force.

So, this seems to be something authors can't fully agree on. I'm reading the Jedi Apprentice series, on book 14. In it, Tahl, a blind Jedi, apparently can't sense probe droids through the force, and so Qui-Gon has to come to her rescue.

I'm confused about this... I'm not the type to point out contradictions, but wasn't the exercise that Obi-Wan put Luke though in ANH all about sensing droids? Or was Luke just sensing the shots, or something? I also remember one of the novels, I believe it was Republic Commando, saying that the main character (I believe it was Etain) could sense droids, although just barely.

Jedi Apprentice also has another strange discrepancy, as lightsabers can't function under water. In one book, Obi-Wan plans an entire strategy around getting his enemies lightsaber wet. My personal retcon is just that a few years later, waterproof lightsabers are invented, maybe by Kit Fisto... I don't think there are any instances in the Old Republic era where a Jedi uses a lightsaber under water.

I don't know, maybe it has something to do with Tahl doubting herself, or something similar.

 

Waterproof lightsabers were a specific invention, yeah.

As for droids...? Eugh... I've always hated the seeming inconsistency there too. The best explanation I've ever had is simply that it must be harder or something. Maybe when it comes to "unlearning what you have learned" it's tougher to tell a droid from a rock than a living being? Is it simply you need to have slightly more refined senses to make them out, because it's like knowing your slate from your granite?

 

RE: Waterproof lightsabers-

There's a specific part that allows lightsabers to function underwater- the bifurcating cyclical-ignition pulse. Without it, being immersed while activated causes a lightsaber to short out, a la TPM Obi-Wan's. However, possibly due to Anakin's ROTS/Luke's ANH/ESB saber having a bifurcating cyclical-ignition pulse built into it (purely my speculation on this part), the Luke-started NJO has started to build all their lightsabers with these in them as part of the standard design rather than an optional extra a la the OJO, where only certain Jedi, such as of course Kit Fisto and Anakin Skywalker built their lightsabers with them.

RE: Sensing droids- KOTOR II has a really nice explanation for this one, I find: droids don't show up like living minds, but they CAN be felt as clusters of cycling energy- IE, the electricity running through their circuits- which would of course be harder to sense than a walking ball of emotions and thoughts and intents. Though, certain droids seem to pass beyond this state of being not-quite-alive and into full life as sensed through the Force- perhaps most notably I-5YQ, who due to some tinkering with getting rid of his creativity dampers and other developments eventually came to be sensed fully in the Force as if he were a living, breathing, sentient being, complete with his state of mind being readable- but also, in Heir to the Empire, Luke senses Threepio as a 'creature', and Zahn also describes Threepio as 'radiating his normal mix of helpfulness and concern'- similar to how he describes organic sentient beings being 'read' through the Force, so it would seem that this phenomenon isn't limited to I-Five.

 

Dark Nest addresses this, too. To Luke, Artoo doesn't feel like a living being, but because of their decades of working together - as well as Artoo's decades of individualization uncommon in droids - he's come to have a specific signature that differentiates him from other droids and, say, electrical background noise. I think it has less to do with Artoo and more to do with Luke's exposure to him - Luke can recognize Artoo because he's Artoo, but may not be able to sense other droids as easily, or differentiate between them.

 

I believe the latter. It was about honing his precognition, which just requires sensing the danger.

dewback_rancher mentioned it, but I love KOTOR II's scene where Kreia teaches how to sense droids.

 

I remember that KOTOR II scene, come to think of it. It's been forever since I've played it, I might have to do that pretty soon.

I suppose probe droids might also be harder to sense than others. They don't have "personalities", just a set purpose, and are probably even more limited than the battle droids in The Clone Wars.

 

In the Fate of the Jedi series Vestura uses her lightsaber underwater, seeing she is from the Lost tribe of the Sith maybe that invention had taken place earlier?

 

The lightsaber underwater thing bugs me from a very different perspective...

Wouldn't it just instantly boil all the water around it and steam-cook the Jedi holding it?

Regarding droids, they can be sensed much like a rock can be sensed. They are a physical item with which the force can interact, they can't be tricked with mind tricks though.

Compare them to the Yuuzhan Vong, they were described as being absent of the force entirely, only sensed by the lack of force presence, like a silhouette.

 

The jedi, i presume would sense objects like they can sense rocks, water, and the parts in their lightsabers. none of them are alive. (Well not counting rainbow Gems of Gallanor, and lambant crystals)

Jedi can sense bombs, and ships and missles can't they. Jedi probably could not feel a Droid's intent, but they should feel the droid like they would feel any other inanimate object.

 

The EU is inconsistant on the sensing droids issue; as other posters have noted, it seems to be more a matter of sensing the droids' energy signatures. It's not the same as sensing a biological life-form. Luke's ability to sense Artoo is most likely, as other posters have noted, a matter of familiarity.

There is a technique among the Miralukan Luka Sene Force-tradition, called field detection, that allows a Force-sensitive to detect and differentiate between inorganic energy signatures with more precision. (KOTOR campaign guide, p. 60.) While most Luka Sene techniques build off of the Miralukan Force sight, field detection can be learned by any Force-sensitive.

It doesn't appear, however, that this is the same as what Kreia taught the Exile early on on Peragus, which seems to be more a matter of "basic" energy detection and differentiation between organic and inorganic signatures. Given that Kreia was attempting to refamiliarize the Exile with Force use, this may have been more a matter of a simple teaching technique.

 

Given that lightsabers usually only tend to give off energy when they strike an object, breaking the feedback loop, and that the part that allows lightsabers to work underwater prevents water from shorting them out... is it possible that the part keeps the blade coherent underwater, keeping the plasma/energy contained and with the magnetic field shaping the blade holding the water off a la the hydrostatic bubbles the Gungans use?

 

I just got around to reading a part of Jedi Vs Sith: Essential Guide to the Force, and yeah, the part about underwater lightsabers is pretty much what I expect. However, it really does make it sound like the idea is a "recent" thing, so a lightsaber from the Lost Tribe of the Sith having it is a bit strange. I guess it is feasible that they could separately develop something similar, though.

 

Lightsabres don't emit heat per se, so no.

 

I like the KOTOR 2 explanation of sensing the energy signatures through the circuit clusters.

 

True. But this is difficult to justify. The Tartakovsky Clone Wars cartoon showed lightsaber blades interacting with water in interesting ways, both when submerged and when used in the rain.

 

Kit Fisto's was modified to permit underwater usage, though. And that wasn't seemingly Anakin's ROTS/Luke's ANH/ESB saber, which was also thus modified, that had raindrops falling on it during the Yavin duel. Design-wise both Obi-Wan and Anakin wield their AOTC sabers in the ol' mini-series.

 

This. If Jedi can't sense droids then battle-droids would have managed to do a better job for themselves over the years.

 

Watch AOTC when Kenobi is on Kamino, the rain is turning into puffs of steam on his lightsaber.

Also, there are numerous counts of people feeling the passing heat of a lightsaber blade when narrowly avoiding one in fights.

 

Not what I'm referring to - that their sabers work in water is clear. I'm talking about the heat from the saber affecting the water, i.e. apparently superheating it instantly.

 

Except that sabers you know, don't emit heat. ANH novel and I believe it's been mentioned a few times since then. The magnetic field does contain alot of heat energy from the plasma inside it, but you can hover your hand practically right next to it and not notice any change in temperature.

Lightsabre

 

I'm also pointing out that AOTC Obi-Wan's lightsaber, and AOTC Anakin's saber (since a copy of that is what Anakin was apparently wielding on Yavin 4), were not modified for underwater usage. And those are the only times we see raindrops steaming on lightsabers.

If someone were to use a modified-for-underwater-usage lightsaber underwater, Kit Fisto shows us it would not boil them alive. I also seem to recall some usages underwater by Anakin's ROTS saber (Splinter of the Mind's Eye?), which was also thus modified. And Luke didn't boil himself either.

 

AFA the saber-water interaction question, there's a seeming anomaly from The Jedi Path, pg. 40, which shows a lightsaber held over a pool of liquid (in mid-air, not under the liquid's surface) and causing it to boil. The illustration has the caption, "Evaporating Liquids."

So. How to explain this? The answer may come from the Wook: Water: All lightsabers, unless specially made,[26] would short out when they were submerged in water, due to rapid chain reactions and the instant overpowering of water on the blade. In rain, a lightsaber would steam up, but not short out.[27]

The drawing may well be an IU error; I'd surmise that a lightsaber could boil liquids, but that the tip must be immersed. Dunking the whole blade in a cauldron of soup would likely have the same effect as activating an unmodified lightsaber underwater, and be stickier to boot.

 

What about I-5?

 

I don't think that's the way it would work - it wouldn't boil anyone alive, because you're surrounded by so much cold water - one lightsaber isn't going to boil the ocean. There would, however, probably be a corona a superheated water bubbling and swirling immediately around the blade, which is actually what we seem to see with Fisto's saber in the Tartakovsky cartoon.
[image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/d/dd/Kit_cartoon.jpg]
As I understand it, the problem with immersing an unmodified lightsaber in water had to do with the machinery in the hilt and the blade emitter, not with the stability of the blade itself.

 

Ah, okay, THAT makes sense.