Shape-shifting? What are the limits to the Force?

Does anyone know if it's possible for a skilled Jedi/Sith to use the Force and becoming a changeling, able to transform and shapeshift into a myriad of appearances and species?

I don't think we've ever seen it before, but Ihaven't read everything and I'm curious. It would definitely be a very powerful and very rare technique, that would take a lot of talent, if it does exist.

I don't think anyone has ever used the Force to gain the power of invisibility or flight, either, right?

Just wondering what the limits are to the Force. It can be used to heal someone near-death, to gain spiritual immortality, to flow-walk into the past or future, to mind-walk and encounter the dead, to teleport, etc. But I don't think we've ever seen any instances of the above, yet.

 

As far as I'm aware there's no examples of a non changeling Jedi changing shapes freely via the force. Of course, illusions can be projected over oneself to at least make the appearance of shapeshifting (and through this technique 'invisibility' can also be attained).

Flight is iffy. Levitation is somewhat prominent but controlled flight over long distances isn't ever really covered. Of course force jumps are present, and Jedi can slow their falls. Some examples of this are Dooku in the original clone wars cartoons and Jacen in that book with Gallandro's daughter. If you're willing to venture into the realm of game mechanics, Darth Vader and Palpatine both float a few inches off the ground when 'sprinting' in Battlefront 2 because it'd have looked funny to give either of them a more conventional sprint animation.

 

The shape shifiting I can't remeber, but the invisibility hell yeah. Their are two forms, of force camaflouge. One is when you mess with the subjects mind, which is not true invisibility and the other is when they bend light around them to make themselves invisible. Check Darth Bane (Book 2) and both KOTOR 1 and 2 video game.

The power of flight well yes. From a technical point of view. You would have have to look at Star Comics Ewoks: Issue 12. In the cover you see Morag (Tulag Witch) that is flying in the air next to a monster. It's not levitiation becuase you see the lines that show horizontal flight. Then when you go into the comic their is a line where Wicket says,"Look she is flying to that tree or soemthing like that." Then you have a couple of pages that show her flying in the air. She then gets knocked down, but she flys away at the end.

It's a rare comic and probably the die hards fanboy ret-con loving base, that its too extreme should'nt happen crap kinda sruff, might not even count that as flying. They might call it levitattion, which I don't. It's the only source where you truly see flying.

Once again though very rare. Just like issue 14 covers star trek style transporter beam stuff, and the Droids has a time warp anamoly thingy.

 

Maw mastered force flight, but he kinda had to unless he wanted to be stuck using repulsors all the time to get around. Invisibility has been done as well, but that has been said already. There is at least one person who has managed to phase(ala Kitty Pryde). There are a lot of force abilities that are rarely seen that are pretty wild.

 

Technically, the witch from one of the Ewoks movie shapeshifted with the force..so...

yeah, I guess the force is magic, but rarely used in such...non conventional ways. At least by the jedi.

 

Charal did that by way of a magic ring. When it broke, she couldn't change back.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Charal

 

It is the ultimate power in the universe. There are no limits, except in the mind of the user.

At least that's my take on it. I dont mind the stuff they did in Force Unleashed, because I see it as being totally possible in the Star Wars Universe. It just requires the proper mindset and connection to the Force. Darth Nihilus devoured the lifeforce of entire worlds. Luke redeemed his father. The Dark Woman can walk through walls.

Its all about the connections. If everything in the universe is connected through the Force, then there is no limit but the user's mind... and perhaps the minds of others. And the will of the Force. A ship or a planet, one life or a thousand.... They are no different. Only in the mind, as Yoda would say.

Heck, Jacen managed to smack Kyle Katarn in the head with a shuttle without spontaneously combusting. So anything's possible XP.

 

I have to disagree with you. IMO, the Force doesn't have limits - but people's ability to use it has. It's not just a matter of discipline and training. You usually need a high midi-chlorian count and so on. And maybe the Will of the Force on your side, but let's not go there.

Anyway, I have never seen shapeshifting through the Force, unless you count illusions (caused by Jedi mind tricks and Sith sorcery) and invisibility (caused by mind tricks or telekinesis). And, even though I agree that anything is possible with the Force (what aspect of magic haven't we've got? It's only a matter of time before they use Sith sorcery to make magic potions), I hope we never see shapeshifting in that way. It's enough that some species do it naturally.

 

You're not disagreeing with RC by saying that. He acknowledged that a person's ability to use it was limited.

Though I'd not be keen on shapeshifting becoming a "castable" Force power, either.

 

In the Dark Tide duology, Ganner Rhysode happily uses levitation to travel across quite a distance of sand-dunes, much to Corran's annoyance.

 

There are always limits...for instance there shouldn't be a force power that allows a person to create or destroy matter/energy. The laws of physics need to apply.

I'm still not happy with being able to 'flow walk' into the past. Though technically, this ability hasn't been proven to alter prior events, so it's not time travel per se, but just looking into the past -- which I'm more or less ok with.

 

The laws of physics must apply? You forgot about the whole telekinetic part of the Force, or what?

 

J_K_Dart- Which book of the two did Ganner levitate through the dune sea? I remember him making a comment that it could be done but would be very enrergy consumming, and that was carrying the other dude on hisback if I rememeber.

 

It wasn't the dune sea. It was on that planet with the archeologist and the mummified Vong remains.

 

It was on the planet Bimmiel. Luke had sent Ganner and Corran to investigate the research team there, for they had found the mummified remains of Mongei Shai. Ganner was levitating over the dunes to avoid disturbing the slashrats, I think.

As for flow-walking- so far, the whole thing is just convoluted. They seem to be waffling on whether or not it can change the past, and therefore the future. One book (was it Inferno?) stated that the Force itself would correct any changes made by a flow-walker. But then we have Jacen flow-walking in Dark Nest and creating a time paradox by aiding Raynar while doing so. Or something like that.

I agree that it isn't something that the writers should abuse, but my point still stands: the only limits are in one's connection to the Force, one's mental freedom and blocks, and one's endurance. As for the laws of physics, well, the Dark Woman walks through walls.

I don't like how the video games tend to give the perception that the Force is divided into "powers", like Force Lightning, Force Push, Force Scream. I mean, yeah, certain ways of using the Force are going to be found more effective than others, and the teaching of those is going to get standardized by the Jedi Order, but still. It's all in how one uses it... or lets himself/herself be used by it.

 

I think that is that has been said that flow-walking cannot change the past.

 

I believe in the Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force the ability to Force Camoflague is covered. Something about a Cathar jedi doing it a few thousand years BBY. Also, the Falanassi (sp?) do something invisibility. At least, if you count the White Current as part of the Force. Akanah, Luke, and Jacen keep using that ability.

The Force is definitely a limitless power, but the users are limited physiologically (burning your cells out or whatever).

 

The Force theoretically does have limits. To act in the physical world it has to work through living matter and is therefore restrained by the limits of that matter - ie the Force can make a person run faster, but there's a limit to how fast someone can run before they injure themselves.

Secondly, the energy of the Force is a reflection of the life in the galaxy - and vice versa. Life creates the Force and makes it grow, just as without the Force there can be no life. So the Force's power is bound to the living matter in the galaxy, which puts a limit on it and means that its power is not infinite. So say that most living things died, then the Force's power would be severely reduced because it has little to act through and little contributing to its continued existence.

But if you think of the normal situation in the galaxy, then there is a lot of life and so the Force is very powerful. But there is still a limit on the amount of energy that comprises the Force, and a limit on how much that can be employed by the few beings who can actually use it.

You can see that because of its rarity, the ability to actually 'use' the Force is not normal and in a sense not natural. It is not the desired natural way that lifeforms actually use the power of the Force, which is why it is limited to a few individuals. Thus the Force itself seems to limit the use of its own already finite power, so that the balance is not upset. The balance between the Force creating life and life creating the Force has to be maintained and the few Force users that there are are there to just help with that. The Force is not actually supposed to control or interfere with the life in the galaxy, which is why it does not generally allow its power to be used by lifeforms, because the natural order of things would become too disrupted.

So the Force has limits to its power, yet what those are vary with how it is being used and the limits can probably never be known. Then you could consider that for all intents and purposes any limits on the Force may not matter, because Force-users could never actually reach those limits due to their own physical limitations. So the Force may appear to be of limitless power because it has so much more power than anything else, and the power to affect things fundamentally - yet practically it cannot actually have no limits due to the nature of its existence.

 

Galen StarKiller being able to down an Imperial Class Star Destroyer by himself? Or like in the comic version, force power a starship? Now thats power. What about the clone Emperor and the super hypercane force storm? Or Exar Kun's ability to haress all those Massassi in Yavin 4 to remove his spirit from his flesh? Or, lets see, what about the ability by Cade to hold on to Blue and survive that explosion in issue 46? You didn't see that in any of the movies or the new clone wars cartoon epsiodes. That stuff is hard to do. Or what about in the Swarm War books, where Leia deflected what 3,000 laser bolts? Heck, Ki-Adi-Mundi in ROTS couldn't defelct more than two or three before he went down. Also imagine if a force user with fresh bota, that prynioum and that holocron, could do. Vader went haywire cause the bota was old, but imagine if it was fresh as when Bariss Offee did in the Medstar book. That would be like being a "God"

So yeah, the force can be used as a super power depending in the writer, story,animator or circumstances. It's all over star wars. This is also not a bad thing, cause I beleive every now and then you need these types of stories. Too many character driven EU stories has gotten me lately to just focus on the main media projects like Clone Wars tv series and TFU video games.

 

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From what I understand, all magic is The Force. Even when it would make more sense if it wasn't, but whatever.

As forthe Force being limited by reality: I think Sith Alchemy is specifically said to be the force overwriting reality and subsisting the desire reality of its wielder. Not an easy task though.